Catholic school enrollment continues to fall in US

[Ridgerunner]

I think this varies a lot from place to place.

In one parish of which my wife and I are members, the Catholic school really is turning into a “private academy” for elites. Tuition is high, and the social aspects of it can be oppressive to some kids, particularly in terms of clothing and gadgets.

In another parish of which we are members, the parishioners are largely rural people. Tuition is pretty low…about $500/year, because the parishioners raise the money to support it. There is a fair amount of “diversity” in an economic sense, because some students’ parents are well off while some aren’t. But rural people, even if they’re wealthy, tend not to act like it or show it.

Academically, the second is comparable to the first, but in the second, the teachers demand more performance from the students. That can be a subtle thing.

I’m not too big on “diversity” the way people tend to think of it. I have a grown neice who rejected a Catholic grade school because it lacked “diversity” in a racial sense. So she selected an elite suburban private grade school that has a handful of wealthy suburbanite non-white kids. That’s “diversity”?

 

[JamesCaruso]

Well I can give my perspective on our former parish school. We don’t live in a backwards area. There are some really, really great Catholic schools in our Diocese. Ours just doesn’t happen to be one of them. But what can you do when the school administration sticks their heads in the sand and refuses to believe there are problems in the school? The Bishop even assigned a specific priest to the parish to try and fix the problems, he’s given the school one year to shape up. What the school administration does now is up to them and how much they want to stay open.

Sadly, better no school than one that leads our kids astray. It sounds like this school administration may end up being replaced. That is a very difficult proposition I would imagine. One way might be for the Bishop to close down the school, which effectively fires all the teachers and staff. Then, later, he reopens it with new staff and teachers. This is, of course, a hardship on the children, the parents, and any teachers or staff who were trying to do the right thing. What a sad world we live in, sometimes even in our own parishes.

 

[WildCatholic]

I think this varies a lot from place to place.​

In another parish of which we are members, the parishioners are largely rural people. Tuition is pretty low…about $500/year, because the parishioners raise the money to support it. There is a fair amount of “diversity” in an economic sense, because some students’ parents are well off while some aren’t. But rural people, even if they’re wealthy, tend not to act like it or show it.

I wish this was the way my Catholic school was. Mine was in a rural area, but rather than people acting humbly, they were showy. Maybe not in the sense that they had money, but they’d argue they got a better education (we really didn’t. Some of our departments were lackluster at best), that we were more respectful and smarter, when honestly the only thing we really did better than our public school was sports. We dominated football, and were competitive in almost every sport, where as our public school was more artsy and seen as more trashy. To be honest, I think our families only keep it open because they want to be better, and not in a nice way. If you aren’t part of a certain family, your pretty much not wanted unless you have money to donate or are good at sports (quite a few kids from noncatholic families contributed both).

 

[OriginalJS]

The high costs to send kids to Catholic schools is a problem.
Back in the day, there were more nuns and brothers to teach in school and since they didn’t get paid like lay teachers do, the cost to run the schools was lower. And you had teachers that really knew the faith.

Well, that is the elephant in the room. Many nuns got **no pay **for their teaching activities. When those orders started to seriously decrease in size back in the fifties, schools started closing because the cohort of nuns wasn’t there to handle the schools. The high schools were the first to go. Now, while Catholic schools staff make less than those in public schools, the costs are still high with two results: (1) many families can’t afford the costs, and, (2) many new successful Catholic schools are peopled with wealthy or upper middle class kids whose parents want private education for any number of reasons.

 

[Julianna]

Well, that is the elephant in the room. Many nuns got **no pay **for their teaching activities. When those orders started to seriously decrease in size back in the fifties, schools started closing because the cohort of nuns wasn’t there to handle the schools. The high schools were the first to go. Now, while Catholic schools staff make less than those in public schools, the costs are still high with two results: (1) many families can’t afford the costs, and, (2) many new successful Catholic schools are peopled with wealthy or upper middle class kids whose parents want private education for any number of reasons.

You got it

 

[pnewton]

(2) many new successful Catholic schools are peopled with wealthy or upper middle class kids whose parents want private education for any number of reasons.

Yes, but I do not begrudge that. It keeps the school going for those that can squeak by with sacrifice and even open the possibililty to support those of lower income through tuition support. No, it is not fair, but that is why I support school vouchers so that opportunity for educational diversity is opened to the poor.

 

[Tampa_Dave]

Originally Posted by OriginalJS … "many new successful Catholic schools are peopled with wealthy or upper middle class kids whose parents want private education for any number of reasons."

I venture to say many parents opt for Catholic schools to avoid bad public schools. My parents sent me to a Catholic high school to avoid the local public school. Thank God!

 

[WildCatholic]

Originally Posted by OriginalJS … "many new successful Catholic schools are peopled with wealthy or upper middle class kids whose parents want private education for any number of reasons."

I venture to say many parents opt for Catholic schools to avoid bad public schools. My parents sent me to a Catholic high school to avoid the local public school. Thank God!

I will say though that it depends why you are avoiding the public school. If its for religious reasons then great for you. If its like in my town where its because we have the better sports teams and just happen to have good faith formation (which parents don’t care about when it comes down to it,though they make it seem like they do) then its not as good. I will say that i do appreciate parents who send their kids no matter the reason because at least they are giving their child a chance to know the faith better.

 

[Elizabeth502]

The newer ones I know of are quite expensive and seem to cater to upper middle class suburbanites, many of whom are not Catholic.

…or when they are Catholic (and predominantly), most of the upper-middle-class families want a superficial Catholicism taught to their children – not too deep, not asking for too much commitment and conversion, not questioning too much a preference for materal values being taught to their children at home, etc. They are comfortable with a watered down Catholicism. Such parents are very powerful: they sit on the Board, they donate to the school and to the parish (if connected), they are prominent in the business community and so recommend the school to similar well-off families.

I will say, in fairness, that some of these do give to the financial aid fund of the school, which allows less wealthy students to attend, and for that they should be acknowledged and blessed. However, that is not the majority mindset, in my experience. (YMMV). The majority end up giving to the school with a hook: it’s connected with things like fundraisers with major material benefits to them (auctions and the like), or sometimes personal benefits, such as gyms for their children. Lately our local Catholic school has enrolled many families who are sports–]minded-/-] obsessed. Their first move after the previous (traditional) pastor died was to rally their troops to propose a fancy new gym on school grounds. (He had opposed it.)

Families in our diocese who cannot afford Catholic schooling end up homeschooling. They do so collaboratively and also in cooperation with one of the parishes, which offers resources to them, such as daytime space for instruction, donated books, etc. To give you an example of their financial situation, they often receive donations of bread from local bakeries, because some of these large families really do need the food, and the mothers are definitely not working outside the home.

Really, every parish which has any kind of a hall and lacks an adjoining school should be able to do similarly, i.m.o. If Catholic homeschooling families were able to be supported by their local parishes, more families would commit to it.

 

[JamesCaruso]

…or when they are Catholic (and predominantly), most of the upper-middle-class families want a superficial Catholicism taught to their children – not too deep, not asking for too much commitment and conversion, not questioning too much a preference for materal values being taught to their children at home, etc. They are comfortable with a watered down Catholicism. Such parents are very powerful: they sit on the Board, they donate to the school and to the parish (if connected), they are prominent in the business community and so recommend the school to similar well-off families.

I will say, in fairness, that some of these do give to the financial aid fund of the school, which allows less wealthy students to attend, and for that they should be acknowledged and blessed. However, that is not the majority mindset, in my experience. (YMMV). The majority end up giving to the school with a hook: it’s connected with things like fundraisers with major material benefits to them (auctions and the like), or sometimes personal benefits, such as gyms for their children. Lately our local Catholic school has enrolled many families who are sports–]minded-/-] obsessed. Their first move after the previous (traditional) pastor died was to rally their troops to propose a fancy new gym on school grounds. (He had opposed it.)

Families in our diocese who cannot afford Catholic schooling end up homeschooling. They do so collaboratively and also in cooperation with one of the parishes, which offers resources to them, such as daytime space for instruction, donated books, etc. To give you an example of their financial situation, they often receive donations of bread from local bakeries, because some of these large families really do need the food, and the mothers are definitely not working outside the home.

Really, every parish which has any kind of a hall and lacks an adjoining school should be able to do similarly, i.m.o. If Catholic homeschooling families were able to be supported by their local parishes, more families would commit to it.

One difficulty in Catholic homeschooling is that some who cannot afford Catholic school, cannot afford one spouse not working, either. I pray that Catholic schooling is on the way back, free or cheaper as needed, as well as, increased acceptance of vocations to religious orders who could provide teachers for a resurgence in Catholic schooling. Nothing is impossible for God.

 

[Elizabeth502]

One difficulty in Catholic homeschooling is that some who cannot afford Catholic school, cannot afford one spouse not working, either.

A mother taking care of many children (i.e., not working) is usually cheaper than purchasing childcare – in or out of the home, unless the mother has a very lucrative career, which generally is not true for these larger Catholic families that are not using artificial contraception (i.e., are faitfhul to Catholic teaching, and also, in that fidelity, interested in genuine Catholic education, not a heterodox version or a superficial version such as what I referred to.}

]I pray that Catholic schooling is on the way back, free or cheaper as needed, as well as, increased acceptance of vocations to religious orders who could provide teachers for a resurgence in Catholic schooling. Nothing is impossible for God.

You’re too recent a member to have seen my many previous posts on this issue. Unfortunately, it appears that many of the Congregations of Religious have so redefined their own original purpose (despite the clear intentions of their late founders), that those same communities are now unrecognizable to any who were privileged to be taught by them.

Now, the most reverent and faithful among those active congregations, the sisters we would all respect and value, have redirected those teaching efforts to the Third World. (Some of the same orders whose primary efforts were once focused on the U.S.) I recently heard an after-Mass talk by one of them, which was also a plea for contributions. Lovely sister, describing humbly what any sensitive person would appreciate as everyday Christian heroism.

Obviously the Church, and her religious, should not abandon Third World locations as teaching destinations, but the U.S. itself has become a spiritual mission, big time, and I see no single congregation stepping up to the plate, particularly in the very States in this country in which they used to teach and which especially need them now, given the grip of secularism and rampant materialism (=new God) in those locations. The congregations which have not redirected their original teaching mission overseas have simply become social workers.

 

[JamesCaruso]

A mother taking care of many children (i.e., not working) is usually cheaper than purchasing childcare – in or out of the home, unless the mother has a very lucrative career, which generally is not true for these larger Catholic families that are not using artificial contraception (i.e., are faitfhul to Catholic teaching, and also, in that fidelity, interested in genuine Catholic education, not a heterodox version or a superficial version such as what I referred to.}

You’re too recent a member to have seen my many previous posts on this issue. Unfortunately, it appears that many of the Congregations of Religious have so redefined their own original purpose (despite the clear intentions of their late founders), that those same communities are now unrecognizable to any who were privileged to be taught by them.

Now, the most reverent and faithful among those active congregations, the sisters we would all respect and value, have redirected those teaching efforts to the Third World. (Some of the same orders whose primary efforts were once focused on the U.S.) I recently heard an after-Mass talk by one of them, which was also a plea for contributions. Lovely sister, describing humbly what any sensitive person would appreciate as everyday Christian heroism.

Obviously the Church, and her religious, should not abandon Third World locations as teaching destinations, but the U.S. itself has become a spiritual mission, big time, and I see no single congregation stepping up to the plate, particularly in the very States in this country in which they used to teach and which especially need them now, given the grip of secularism and rampant materialism (=new God) in those locations. The congregations which have not redirected their original teaching mission overseas have simply become social workers.

There are so many circumstances out there that are not conducive to homeschooling that it would make your head swim. As I said, both parents may have to work, else they get evicted or fail to put food on the table, so they get a relative, or neighbor or anyone they can find to watch their children when they are not in school. This is a pretty decent case. Then there are families where the husband is out of work, or does not work as much as he should, and would rather be drinking, doing drugs, hanging out, etc. than be stuck at home watching his kids. These moms and single moms prevail upon grand-mom to watch the kids, or maybe turn them over to child care women who watch several neighbor’s kids in her apartment for a small fee. Then there are families in which neither the father nor the mother have decent educations, so that homeschooling is not even on the table. Get out in the community and you will see things that will sicken you. If only there could be free Catholic school education. That’s what a voucher system could bring us. I didn’t mention the parents with fine jobs, but are just too materialistic to opt out of free public schooling. It’s the kids who suffer. If the Church could reach these kids in their early formative years there is a chance they could grow up to be conscientious, caring Catholics, despite their parents shortcomings and the circumstances in which they live. All of these problems are rampant in largely Catholic new immigrant communities. Language is another barrier.

On America as a mission, except for the poor here, and there are plenty, I view America somewhat like the Laodician church of Revelations, of whom the Spirit said …

*17Because thou sayest: I am rich, and made wealthy, and have need of nothing: and knowest not, that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked. 18I counsel thee to buy of me gold fire tried, that thou mayest be made rich; and mayest be clothed in white garments, and that the shame of thy nakedness may not appear; and anoint thy eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. 19Such as I love, I rebuke and chastise. Be zealous therefore, and do penance. *

This was the church that the Spirit said, you are neither hot nor cold. I’m sure you know the rest.

In this sense, America is the poorest country on earth. In this sense it is a mission country of the first order. But I am not sure that it’s ears are open to the remedy for what ails it, or if it even knows that it is ailing. This must be what the religious orders recognized. They went where the harvest was ripe. I agree, we need them back. More rosaries is the only solution I know.

 

[Mariem2]

I saw a news report about a New York Catholic school being closed due to lack of funds. At least one parent was slating the Church for failing the children. When they trotted out Sonia Sotomayor as an example of what that Catholic school had produced I wondered why the Church had taken so long to close the school. As far as I can remember, the school principal was a nun. It’s the Government’s job to provide an academic education and a safe place for children to receive that education. The Church’s role is to provide a religious education and it needs to go back to the drawing board to find an effective way of doing so in Western democracies.

 

[Elizabeth502]

There are so many circumstances out there that are not conducive to homeschooling that it would make your head swim.

James, this is my field. I have facilitated homeschoolers in formal settings, so I do know whereof I speak. I simply have more direct and more professional experience than you in this regard.

You, OTOH, are talking about extremes. Most people in those extreme situations are not homeschooling their children, because it is not feasible. A few do try to, clumsily, and when it does not work, if it does not work, they stop and revert to site schools. Uneducated parents are rarely trying to homeschool, especially on the high school level, but even on the middle school, they are not prepared for the math and science.

In fact, the situations you’re talking about are exactly what are being brought to so many low-performing public schools, and which is one reason why so many parents seek charter schools or private schools: all the ills of society are dumped onto public schools, and in contemporary times, the public schools are forced to deal with these problems (and sometimes merely choose to take them on). In fact, one of the major reasons I no longer teach in site public schools is that the latter virtually admit that they have become social agencies as well: engaging in mediation, psychiatry, food distribution, familial dysfunction, employment counseling – you name it. This is where the educational funds are being partly redirected: into social services on and off-iste.

As to language, ESL and ELL families are not homeschooling their kids. Again, they can’t. They lack the tools and resources. That is precisely why the public schools in some regions are 100% immigrant, and another reason why those schools are failing. The task of teaching literacy to families in which the parents are not even literate beyond grade 3 in their own language is not a task that the public schools have the manpower to deal with. The language performance is extremely poor, and has remained poor. (And will remain poor until the parents become literate, because children spend far more time at home than at school.) Parents are additional teachers of their children, and parents who do not speak the language are in no position to oversee homework.

Nonetheless. there are plenty of non-ideal family situations in which homeschooling has been tried, is being tried, and is working out. It really depends on what you’re comparing it to: I have overseen homeschool programs in which the student made only modest gains, with gaps in his knowledge – but those gaps and gains were still superior to what was and is available in his local site school. The public schools in my region are the Titanic, and the departments of education just keep rearranging the deck chairs every year.

Finally, many homeschool families join cooperatives. They join Homeschool Associations in which they share resources and opportunities, and additionally form their own student athletic clubs. So the students are getting the benefit of shared labor and social interactions with peers.

There are also homeschools which are publicly funded, so the materials (textbooks and credentialed teacher oversight) are free of charge to the family. I would know, because I have taught those formats.

 

[JamesCaruso]

James, this is my field. I have facilitated homeschoolers in formal settings, so I do know whereof I speak. I simply have more direct and more professional experience than you in this regard.

You, OTOH, are talking about extremes. Most people in those extreme situations are not homeschooling their children, because it is not feasible. A few do try to, clumsily, and when it does not work, if it does not work, they stop and revert to site schools. Uneducated parents are rarely trying to homeschool, especially on the high school level, but even on the middle school, they are not prepared for the math and science.

In fact, the situations you’re talking about are exactly what are being brought to so many low-performing public schools, and which is one reason why so many parents seek charter schools or private schools: all the ills of society are dumped onto public schools, and in contemporary times, the public schools are forced to deal with these problems (and sometimes merely choose to take them on). In fact, one of the major reasons I no longer teach in site public schools is that the latter virtually admit that they have become social agencies as well: engaging in mediation, psychiatry, food distribution, familial dysfunction, employment counseling – you name it. This is where the educational funds are being partly redirected: into social services on and off-iste.

As to language, ESL and ELL families are not homeschooling their kids. Again, they can’t. They lack the tools and resources. That is precisely why the public schools in some regions are 100% immigrant, and another reason why those schools are failing. The task of teaching literacy to families in which the parents are not even literate beyond grade 3 in their own language is not a task that the public schools have the manpower to deal with. The language performance is extremely poor, and has remained poor. (And will remain poor until the parents become literate, because children spend far more time at home than at school.) Parents are additional teachers of their children, and parents who do not speak the language are in no position to oversee homework.

Nonetheless. there are plenty of non-ideal family situations in which homeschooling has been tried, is being tried, and is working out. It really depends on what you’re comparing it to: I have overseen homeschool programs in which the student made only modest gains, with gaps in his knowledge – but those gaps and gains were still superior to what was and is available in his local site school. The public schools in my region are the Titanic, and the departments of education just keep rearranging the deck chairs every year.

Finally, many homeschool families join cooperatives. They join Homeschool Associations in which they share resources and opportunities, and additionally form their own student athletic clubs. So the students are getting the benefit of shared labor and social interactions with peers.

There are also homeschools which are publicly funded, so the materials (textbooks and credentialed teacher oversight) are free of charge to the family. I would know, because I have taught those formats.

I only made a simple observation that some cannot afford homeschooling or that it is not feasible for them to do so. Homeschooling is the answer for those who have the education, financial wherewithal, and circumstances conducive to doing it. You are right, I was talking about extremes, but extremes that have very high numbers of people even in my affluent part of the country. I have a very high opinion of homeschooling. I have never seen a case of other than excellent results. But where I live, most people who are equipped to perform homeschooling, don’t need to do so, because they can afford to send their kids to Catholic schools (but some do anyway). Where I am, if you eliminate those who can but don’t need to and those who can but don’t want to for a myriad of reasons, you are left with a handful of people who do so, and a large number of families which you have described as the extreme. They are only the extreme in there need, but they are not small in number. My sense is that the Church needs to be is helping these less advantaged families who cannot not afford Catholic school and for whatever reason are not good candidates for homeschooling. The only way I see for them to get a Catholic education is if it is virtually free, as with a voucher system or a Church subsidy of some kind. I did not intend to impugn homeschooling in any way, I’m just more aware of the needs that cannot be addressed by homeschooling in my neck of the woods. Thank you for your work in homeschooling, I know what a wonderful work it is and I admire those families who are so involved.

I might add, there are probably a larger number of Catholics who don’t care one way or the other. Public school is fine for them, and one hour a week of CCD is all they feel is required. There kids need help, too, but their parents are not going to opt out of the free public school system or tackle the noble task of homeschooling. That’s sadly just the way it is.

 

[Tampa_Dave]

I will say though that it depends why you are avoiding the public school. If its for religious reasons then great for you. If its like in my town where its because we have the better sports teams and just happen to have good faith formation (which parents don’t care about when it comes down to it,though they make it seem like they do) then its not as good. I will say that i do appreciate parents who send their kids no matter the reason because at least they are giving their child a chance to know the faith better.

I cannot say my parents sent me to a Catholic high school for 100% “good reasons”. But I can say the move made valid academic sense.

 

[WildCatholic]

I cannot say my parents sent me to a Catholic high school for 100% “good reasons”. But I can say the move made valid academic sense.

I know, but sometimes there are some pretty invalid reasons parents choose catholic schools. In one mostly hispanic town, the Catholic school, which only went to 8th grade cost a lot of money. This eliminated most of the Hispanics who worked in a local meatpacking plant. Of course they went to the public school. Guess where the white kids, even those who weren’t catholic went? (not saying that this was the reason most parents sent their kids there, but a few probably did think this i’m sure, though to be fair, I understand how parents might not want kids to feel like a minority, but were all human, why should it matter)

 

[Julianna]

I know, but sometimes there are some pretty invalid reasons parents choose catholic schools. In one mostly hispanic town, the Catholic school, which only went to 8th grade cost a lot of money. This eliminated most of the Hispanics who worked in a local meatpacking plant. Of course they went to the public school. Guess where the white kids, even those who weren’t catholic went? (not saying that this was the reason most parents sent their kids there, but a few probably did think this i’m sure, though to be fair, I understand how parents might not want kids to feel like a minority, but were all human, why should it matter)

you are right, that is typical everywhere…

 

[ConvertMamma]

I just enrolled my kids in Catholic schools for the first time this year. I wanted to give them our faith all day long, and I am sadly disappointed! This is one of the “best” schools in the area and all of the families seem to be Catholic in name only. My son is in kindergarten and I just found out that his teacher is NOT CATHOLIC!! Someone else comes into the room twice a week to teach a short religion class. That’s it. I’m paying almost $5,000 for a secular education that I could have gotten in public school. I am so mad and I have lost trust and I am feeling my faith is under attack. How could the school not have told me that the teacher was not Catholic?? She never once mentions God, Jesus, Mary or the Saints ever throughout the day. She has been there since 2002 and I am the first one to notice??? She has a giant stuffed witch in the classroom for Halloween and the Blessed Mother Statue is up on a shelf where you can’t see Her. How is this a Catholic education? I wanted a Catholic teacher who would incorporate Catholicism throughout the day. How do you compartmentalize your religion into 20 minutes a day for 2 days a week. They have 5 full days of kindergarten and this is all they can manage. This is our future. These students are the future of the Catholic Church.

 

[Holly3278]

Well that is sad. I wish that enrollment in Catholic schools would soar. I think it’s a proven fact that Catholic schools give a greater quality of education than do public schools. Another plus is that Catholic schools teach God’s Truth unlike public schools. Many public schools will teach that there is nothing wrong with fornication and that you should “protect” yourself from pregnancy and STDs by using contraception and condoms.