Catholic School not a choice

[1990Domer]

Don’t take the word of someone’s child about what his (or her) parents would or would not have done in your parents’ situation. Unless your friend or friend’s sibling had your severity of dyslexia with add and a nun told those parents that the Catholic school wasn’t a good fit for their child, that friend of yours really isn’t qualified to say what those parents would have done in your parents’ situation. That person’s parents might not have ever considered the school because they never had the need for such a school. Your parents did.

There are many school available. Not everyone makes the same choice. Not every school is a good fit for every child or every family. Different families set their priorities based on their values, their resources and their needs. Speaking of resources, it would be *absolutely wonderful *if every Catholic diocese had schools set up for special needs, such as what Monicad suggested! Unfortunately, many diocese can barely afford to keep up their parish schools–and many, many parish school have closed in recent years due to financial concerns.

This is true. But what I have found out in my research is that, at least in our area, the parish schools are narrowing the focus of child they’re accepting–they are not even willing to stick their neck out a little bit. Those that are–and they are not parish schools–have waiting lists.
I agree that there would be people to step up and donate to schools that did service “the least of God’s children.” I, for one, would. However, I had to withdraw my commitment in order to help my son recover from a horrible experience. The private aid–and not only for my son–I offered the school was rejected (we were going to set up a foundation). Now, that aid is helping him in cyber school. He loves school and he loves her.

 

[SilverLight]

Hum…do you live on the East Coast?

I do and in Pennsylvania.

 

[Kelfa28]

I couldn’t agree more with Monicad’s post.

It really resonated with me.

I don’t have a special needs child but there was a time when we thought we did.

My oldest had a big time speech impediment we discovered when she was about 18 months old.
Thankfully we caught it early and were able to take advantage of early intervention.
It’s state sponsored and financed. We never paid a dime.

It mirrors what is offered to the Public School students and I have to say…it was outstanding.
My daughter got the help she needed and we got the help we needed in terms of being given tools to help her in the long run.

She is still a little bit behind for her age. She has trouble following directions and has trouble answering questions. But it isn’t something that more time in Preschool couldn’t fix.

The problem we had was we had picked out a Catholic school hubby and I loved and had every intention to send our children to…since my oldest was an infant.
I didn’t realize that the Catholic schools in our Diocese does not accommodate much in terms of Special Needs students and that really bothered me.

The public schools are terrible in our area and it wasn’t an option to send our children to a public school…the Catholic schools are much better and we have quite a few of them our Diocese.

One thing that is crystal clear…the Public schools have a huge leg up in what they offer for special needs kids.
Something that many Catholic schools just don’t offer.

 

[1990Domer]

Please, what I said would be a mess would be the schools accepting funding and having to follow the state rules, not having children with disabilities.

OP, Monicad and I were thinking of a system where state funding would not be accepted, this getting around this argument. The Church can fundraise when it has the right people, message and motivation.

Monicad,
I am sorry the schools were not set ip to help your child, and I did not intend to add to that. I have seen situations in which educators were burned out trying to cope with too many different difficulties. It can be very hard on them.

And I also knew an autistic girl who was in a very small school system where she receved totally inadequate help. When her family moved to a different, larger county, they had specialists in autism and the girl blossomed. Like, at the age of 9, she started saying things she wasn’t repeating but saying her own sentences about what was going on around her.

I can see that in a different diocese, one in a single city, might be able to set something like this up. The nearest Catholic school to us is 2 hours away, and the next one is 1.5 hours further. That’s what I’m used to here in the Bible Belt.

I know that most Catholic schools are under a lot of stress. Large families can’t afford to send their children to them, and the teachers are paid much less than PS teachers. They end up having to accept children whose families can afford to pay, and then people are sad because they feel like the school caters to the rich, Catholic or no, and sometimes the school goes downhill in its Catholic identity…

And yes, I think it would be a beautiful thing too if all the children could all go to school together. I think it is very sad that students and teachers have to be more concerned with the tests they have to pass and taking the necessary courses and all that stuff, but this is where we are, and I think a lot of people are just struggling to do the best they can and sometimes that means making decisions they’d rather not make.

I think the “decisions we rather not make” part was more like “this decision is being made for you.” Period. End of conversation. Schools didn’t even give me 5 minutes to explain the reports I wanted to show them, so I wasn’t let through the door. Yes, in sparsely populated diocese, it would be tough. But where I live, hardly. Same with diocese that surround mine.

It’s very hard as a parent to feel you have kids that make other parishioners (and in the case, it would be parents) uncomfortable. Recently Ilearned of an effort by a prominent autism group who is funding research for a pre-natal test to screen for autism. Now where will that get us…yep, going down the road for more abortions. All this because our children are only seen for what they can accomplish or produce, not for the love the bring or the fact that God made that child special for a reason.

I hope you can understand where M and I are coming from.

 

[St_Francis]

I think the “decisions we rather not make” part was more like “this decision is being made for you.” Period. End of conversation. Schools didn’t even give me 5 minutes to explain the reports I wanted to show them, so I wasn’t let through the door. Yes, in sparsely populated diocese, it would be tough. But where I live, hardly. Same with diocese that surround mine.

It’s very hard as a parent to feel you have kids that make other parishioners (and in the case, it would be parents) uncomfortable. Recently Ilearned of an effort by a prominent autism group who is funding research for a pre-natal test to screen for autism. Now where will that get us…yep, going down the road for more abortions. All this because our children are only seen for what they can accomplish or produce, not for the love the bring or the fact that God made that child special for a reason.

I hope you can understand where M and I are coming from.

Yes, I do.

When I was at a Catholic slementary school, back in the 1960s, one of the girls is our class was … not as intellectually able for her age. And they knew that and so she was in our class and they did not worry about that. But in those days, they didn’t have to.

One thing that bothers me is that in iur whole society (and I know among Cafholics it should be better) there is a lack of acceptance of people who are even a little bit different. Like the girl I mentioned before with autism? Her family was very close, in terms of relationship and distance. So she had a lot of people who just loved her and accepted her without a big deal.

But I have heard terrible stories about the reacfions of people to children with disabilities, so I know that the acceptance that child received was exceptional.

So, yeah, it would be nice if everything could be perfect for everyone, and now, having seen what you two have gone through, if it ever happens that I am in a position to make a difference in this area, I will definitely do so more because of my increased understanding.

 

[SilverLight]

I had no idea the reactions to this topic would be like this. Its nice to see a lot of people understand and that there are others who feel the schools could do better.

 

[Maximilan_Kolbe]

Heck, I may go a step further and ask why they cannot accommodate ALL of God’s children…not just the ones that fit the cookie cutter mold of the “average” student. Why not invest more in schools that can help kids with learning disabilities, speech problems, autism, mutism, OCD. The student body would be so much more compassionate. Sadly, I see a diocese full of schools for entitled rich kids.

Once people stopped giving generously to the Church, things got tighter. It is an issue of generosity. The schoold should be able to provide education to anyone free of charge. It could in fact, if those same people gave their first fruits to the Church. Truly, a community spirit. That doesn’t exist anymore.

I am probably guilty myself, to a degree. We are generous (IMO, but could we be more?

Also, nuns abandoning their education ministry in an effort to preach social justice in the streets (common in the 70s and 80s) along with a lack of new initiates in these orders has forced schools to hire laypeople as teachers, something that costs more money.

 

[UbiCaritas]

You have very kind words that could have only come from a kind heart.

I would like to be clear about something my biggest concern is our typical children. Our everyday, typical, normally functioning, even gifted Catholic school students are the ones I am concerned about. These children NEED to have classmates that have spina bifida, that are blind, that use wheelchairs, have autism and down syndrome. Yes, they NEED them. Our purpose as a Catholic church is to help each other get to Heaven. Having a classmate and being up-close-and personal with someone that has a disability presents opportunities to grow in grace and virtue and understanding that cannot be duplicated otherwise. In the beginning I thought it was about having my own child included, however over time I believe God opened my heart to believe that my child belonged not just to me, but to the entire church community and belonged there interacting with others for a reason.

We are starving our typical Catholic children of this experience, and satan has fooled us into thinking it is too expensive.

Having a classmate with a disability can be a life-changing experience, and if we, as a Church are supportive like we should be one that will bear much fruit. St. Francis from your own example, I find it interesting that you remember your classmate that had a disability from 50 years ago. I wonder how many of your other classmates do you remember with such clarity? Thank you for sharing, God bless your day.

And Monicad, while I believe we’ve discussed this before and disagree on the practicalities of getting such kids mainstreamed into Catholic schools*, on this we agree 100%. Kids should be exposed to those who are different, whether physically, mentally, or socio-economically. As it is in our area, only the very wealthiest can send their children to Catholic high school; the cheapest local Catholic elementary schools want the equivalent of our mortgage payment every month just for one student, with a small discount for additional kids after that. DH and I are in the top 20% in terms of earning in our country, and still will never be able to afford either Catholic elementary or high school for our kids! That is insane.

The result is that the kids at these schools only see other kids who are exactly like them: very wealthy, predominantly white, and no evident disabilities. There is something seriously wrong with this setup. It doesn’t teach them to think outside the box in either practical or spiritual issues, and it certainly doesn’t encourage them to think of those who are less fortunate than they are because they never meet anyone who’d fit that definition, unless you count the kid who gets daddy’s two-year-old BMW rather than a brand-new Jag at graduation. (I exaggerate…slightly. ) I remember hearing from someone in my parents’ generation about how a group of parochial school kids took turns pushing a classmate’s wheelchair to school every day so that she could get an education, too (this was before special busses and the like), and suspect that that sort of thing isn’t going to happen at our local Catholic schools.

*I.e., the money issue

 

[1990Domer]

Monicad,

I am going to mention your statement our the Church needing our kids in my talk.

Will all of you here pray for me and my son tomorrow? We are attending his former school’s Patriot Day Mass (in honor of 9/11). It was last year at this very mass that I knew my son was going to be in for a rough year. None of his classmates would extend him the Sign of Peace. I remember him looking over at me with such sad eyes. I blew him a kiss.

However, he insists he wants to go in order to face his anxieties head-on. So, we are going tomorrow. We will be sitting in the part of the church where it will be most difficult for his classmates to spot him. Naturally, I will be next to him. I am so proud that this child has no ill will, anger or resentment towards his classmates. He’s just sad that they didn’t give him a real chance to know him.

Somehow, some way I will make it my mission to make the Catholic school system stronger. I’m blessed to have had received a great education with the perks of being able to ask for their ideas in how better to spread the Catholic mission. Some things are turning our way (like greater awareness of the horrors of abortion), but we have a long way to go in other places. So God, is that why I’m here? I’m convinced that answer is yes.

 

[St_Francis]

You have very kind words that could have only come from a kind heart.

Thank you for your kind words.

I would like to be clear about something my biggest concern is our typical children. Our everyday, typical, normally functioning, even gifted Catholic school students are the ones I am concerned about. These children NEED to have classmates that have spina bifida, that are blind, that use wheelchairs, have autism and down syndrome. Yes, they NEED them. Our purpose as a Catholic church is to help each other get to Heaven. Having a classmate and being up-close-and personal with someone that has a disability presents opportunities to grow in grace and virtue and understanding that cannot be duplicated otherwise. In the beginning I thought it was about having my own child included, however over time I believe God opened my heart to believe that my child belonged not just to me, but to the entire church community and belonged there interacting with others for a reason.

We are starving our typical Catholic children of this experience, and satan has fooled us into thinking it is too expensive.

Our children, and even most people, are too little exposed to anyone different from themselves these days.

Having a classmate with a disability can be a life-changing experience, and if we, as a Church are supportive like we should be one that will bear much fruit. St. Francis from your own example, I find it interesting that you remember your classmate that had a disability from 50 years ago. I wonder how many of your other classmates do you remember with such clarity? Thank you for sharing, God bless your day.

I have been blessed with a fair amount of contact with some great people with disabilities. Definitely helps broaden the way one sees things, and values of life. And something a young man studying to be a Protestant preacher always stuck in my mind as we discussed this very topic: Some people have deficits which show, and others have them internally. --He was not talking about “invisible disabilities” but about “handicapped souls.”

 

[Sugabee43]

I don’t understand or agree with this at all. The people who are recipients of the Church’s ministries are ALSO children of the church. When we feed the hungry, clothe the naked, etc, we ARE taking care of our own.

You don’t?? Why do I, a long time supporter of my parish who CANNOT financially afford to send my children to Catholic school, receive yearly pleas from the diocese begging to sponsor low-income children so they can get a Catholic education? While I CERTAINLY advocate (and I participate in) helping the destitute, it IRKS me to no end that my own parish/diocese cannot afford to have their children educated formally in the faith, while we have, as a parish, one of the largest bank of ministries geared toward the community. I even have to pay for CCE!!! As a convert, my experience was that ‘Sunday school’ was ALWAYS free!!

 

[Maximilan_Kolbe]

Monicad,

I am going to mention your statement our the Church needing our kids in my talk.

Will all of you here pray for me and my son tomorrow? We are attending his former school’s Patriot Day Mass (in honor of 9/11). It was last year at this very mass that I knew my son was going to be in for a rough year. None of his classmates would extend him the Sign of Peace. I remember him looking over at me with such sad eyes. I blew him a kiss.

However, he insists he wants to go in order to face his anxieties head-on. So, we are going tomorrow. We will be sitting in the part of the church where it will be most difficult for his classmates to spot him. Naturally, I will be next to him. I am so proud that this child has no ill will, anger or resentment towards his classmates. He’s just sad that they didn’t give him a real chance to know him.

Somehow, some way I will make it my mission to make the Catholic school system stronger. I’m blessed to have had received a great education with the perks of being able to ask for their ideas in how better to spread the Catholic mission. Some things are turning our way (like greater awareness of the horrors of abortion), but we have a long way to go in other places. So God, is that why I’m here? I’m convinced that answer is yes.

I said some prayers for your son. Made me want to tear up, as a father. Blow him a kiss for all of us

 

[UbiCaritas]

You don’t?? Why do I, a long time supporter of my parish who CANNOT financially afford to send my children to Catholic school, receive yearly pleas from the diocese begging to sponsor low-income children so they can get a Catholic education? While I CERTAINLY advocate (and I participate in) helping the destitute, it IRKS me to no end that my own parish/diocese cannot afford to have their children educated formally in the faith, while we have, as a parish, one of the largest bank of ministries geared toward the community. I even have to pay for CCE!!! As a convert, my experience was that ‘Sunday school’ was ALWAYS free!!

It’s the same way here.

I don’t know if this is also true in your case, though, but something that affects the situation here is this:

DH, DD and I live in a suburban town near one of the biggest cities in the US. This city is part of our archdiocese. There is a strong, STRONG push in our parish to support inner-city Catholic schools because for most of the kids attending them, it’s their only chance at a good education in a safe building. The public schools in some of the areas are so bad down there that kids are getting gang pressure in elementary school. That’s leaving aside the quality of their intellectual and moral education, which, as you might imagine, often parallels the situation in the neighborhood around them.

I’m fine with that. I’m happy to participate in school supply donation drives for those schools. I would go so far as to say that if we’re going to prioritize getting kids into Catholic schools, I’d rather offer more aid to the kids who would otherwise be going to much worse schools than our suburban ones. I’m not terribly impressed with our local school district, but if we, for some reason, weren’t able to homeschool and decided to send DD there, I wouldn’t worry about her getting harassed by gang members while walking into the building. That’s not the case at some of the downtown schools.

What makes me really, really angry is that the same level of pressure is being put on us to subsidize our local schools–ie, in our community–even though most of the students who attend them are higher-income, upper-class students. I get tired of hearing that I need to subsidize the 10K/year tuition Catholic high school’s latest sports building because That’s What Good Catholics Do, even though my children will never be able to go there. I get tired of hearing that Good Catholics Send Their Kids To Catholic School, when in our community, Catholic school is an impossible dream for any except the very wealthiest. Why in the world should I subsidize the education of children whose parents can afford to drop five figures in tuition for high-school-age children? And again, to put the tuition cost into perspective, let me repeat: DH and I are in the top 20% of earners in the US, but we can’t afford Catholic school for our children. * There is something really, really wrong with that picture. If we can’t afford it, how can most of our co-parishioners afford it? We go to a fairly wealthy parish, but the families with more than a couple of kids tend to be immigrant families in lower-income jobs. They certainly can’t afford Catholic schools, either. Again: this is not a good thing.

*Well, unless we decide not to save for retirement, but that’s a very, very stupid idea.

 

[Sugabee43]

It’s the same way here.

I don’t know if this is also true in your case, though, but something that affects the situation here is this:

DH, DD and I live in a suburban town near one of the biggest cities in the US. This city is part of our archdiocese. There is a strong, STRONG push in our parish to support inner-city Catholic schools because for most of the kids attending them, it’s their only chance at a good education in a safe building. The public schools in some of the areas are so bad down there that kids are getting gang pressure in elementary school. That’s leaving aside the quality of their intellectual and moral education, which, as you might imagine, often parallels the situation in the neighborhood around them.

I’m fine with that. I’m happy to participate in school supply donation drives for those schools. I would go so far as to say that if we’re going to prioritize getting kids into Catholic schools, I’d rather offer more aid to the kids who would otherwise be going to much worse schools than our suburban ones. I’m not terribly impressed with our local school district, but if we, for some reason, weren’t able to homeschool and decided to send DD there, I wouldn’t worry about her getting harassed by gang members while walking into the building. That’s not the case at some of the downtown schools.

What makes me really, really angry is that the same level of pressure is being put on us to subsidize our local schools–ie, in our community–even though most of the students who attend them are higher-income, upper-class students. I get tired of hearing that I need to subsidize the 10K/year tuition Catholic high school’s latest sports building because That’s What Good Catholics Do, even though my children will never be able to go there. I get tired of hearing that Good Catholics Send Their Kids To Catholic School, when in our community, Catholic school is an impossible dream for any except the very wealthiest. Why in the world should I subsidize the education of children whose parents can afford to drop five figures in tuition for high-school-age children? And again, to put the tuition cost into perspective, let me repeat: DH and I are in the top 20% of earners in the US, but we can’t afford Catholic school for our children*. There is something really, really wrong with that picture. If we can’t afford it, how can most of our co-parishioners afford it? We go to a fairly wealthy parish, but the families with more than a couple of kids tend to be immigrant families in lower-income jobs. They certainly can’t afford Catholic schools, either. Again: this is not a good thing.

*Well, unless we decide not to save for retirement, but that’s a very, very stupid idea.

***Thank you!!!*Charity is obviously a non-negotiable if one is able; I’m definitely not talking about that. And to reiterate- I believe the miserly number of men and women taking up religious vocations is directly connected to the lack of availability of formal Catholic education. Is it perfect? Hardly. But the more horses you lead to water, the more will probably drink!!

 

[nodito]

Thank you!!! And to reiterate- I believe the miserly number of men and women taking up religious vocations is directly connected to the lack of availability of formal Catholic education. Is it perfect? Hardly. But the more horses you lead to water, the more will probably drink!!

It’s somewhat of a catch-22. I do believe we’d have more vocations if more children were being educated by nuns and priests. But because we have fewer nuns and priests, Catholic schools now cost more and it less attainable for the average Catholic. The religious were supplying free labor, it kept schools affordable. Our Catholic school does the best it can with only one priest and the rest lay teachers, most of whom make significantly less than their public school counterparts.

 

[nodito]

While I CERTAINLY advocate (and I participate in) helping the destitute, it IRKS me to no end that my own parish/diocese cannot afford to have their children educated formally in the faith, while we have, as a parish, one of the largest bank of ministries geared toward the community.

To each his own, I guess. I support Catholic education, but if push comes to shove, I’d rather see my donations go to women in crisis pregnancies or assisting refugees, especially when the work is done by the Catholic Church.

 

[1990Domer]

I said some prayers for your son. Made me want to tear up, as a father. Blow him a kiss for all of us

Thank you so much! I did! And I wanted you to know that he took St. Kolbe as his Confirmation saint in June.

 

[savedbygrace71]

This is another interesting discussion that is leading me to thank God for our Catholic parish school. My son has autism. He receives a special plan similar to an IEP but not a legally binding document, which is not shared outside the resource office. It provides him with the support he needs in school and to help him with homework etc. The local public school has child find and through them we can access occupational therapy. We have the best of both, truthfully.

But to get to the OP’s question- if it came to pass that the Catholic education we are happy with now wasn’t fitting his needs, we would certainly look at other options. I’d be less likely to choose another Christian school, though. Here in the South there are a lot of non denominational Christian schools and it would be confusing for my overly literal Aspie kid to try to understand the differences. But if the public school would be better, we’d look into it.

However, based on the experiences of the moms in my ASD group in town, it’s a lot more frustrating in the huge school system to be another cog in the system, compared to one of only about ten Aspies/autistic kids at our 400 child Catholic school. Instead of waiting weeks for an IEP meeting that is stressful and confrontational, we have friendly chats about what is best for my kiddo this year. It’s all new, last year was less formal while we were in the diagnosis process, but other families have shared it really is that straightforward. We are blessed to live here, and to be able to pay tuition.

 

[Maximilan_Kolbe]

Thank you so much! I did! And I wanted you to know that he took St. Kolbe as his Confirmation saint in June.

That’s awesome, he is was a real man! Hopefully your son spelled his name correctly

 

[1990Domer]

That’s awesome, he is was a real man! Hopefully your son spelled his name correctly

He did…but his classmate who took the same name (for a terrible reason) did not. He had to do a research paper on St. Maximilian. Absolutely fascinating man…and a great saint choice for my Polish son.