Catholic school nutrition

[Rau]

I 'm sorry, but the problem is yours, and it appears that you want the school to be the bad guy and not you.

Perhaps I misunderstood your message then.

 

[Cat]

When I went to Catholic grade school, maybe a fourth of the kids walked home for lunch and the rest of us brought our lunches. Nobody thought anything of it.

My grandchildren go to a Catholic grade school that has a cafeteria. A lot of the kids are farm kids, and their nutritional needs are very different from those of urban kids. A lot of the kids are in athletics. The school tried to follow the mandated federal dietary guidelines, but the kids were hungry all the time, so the cooks, who theoretically “comply”, actually cheat with extra helpings of certain things, unscheduled “side dishes” and such things.

One person’s “ideal meal” is not the same as another’s.

Finally, there might be biological reasons for differences in dietary preferences. Can a German eat like a Vietnamese and be okay? Can a Vietnamese eat like a German and be okay? I have my doubts as to both. As the OP is probably aware, for example, Indo-Europeans are the only people on earth, the majority of whom retain lactose tolerance into adulthood. There might be other things that are similar. I have two daughters who are without excess body fat or any health problems, but who eat large quantities of beef and thrive on it. I had a maiden aunt who, for perhaps 40 of the last of her 94 years, ate two rib eye steaks and two eggs for breakfast every morning, Never had an ounce of fat on her, but she had a racing metabolism. Would she have lived to 104 if she didn’t eat the way she did? Or would she perhaps have died at 74?

Nobody knows.

This is fascinating. Thanks for posting this. It sure gives a lot of “food for thought.” (sorry for bad pun).

I never thought about the possibility that different ethnic groups might have trouble eating the food of other ethnic groups, but it makes sense. Each individual and each group of people have a different intestinal flora. There is a theory going around that obese people have a different flora than non-obese people. So there could be biological explanations for this. OR it could just be a re-surfacing of the old “eugenics” pseudo-science. But it’s definitely worth thinking about.

However, it’s definitely true that kids all have different nutritional needs. When my daughters were in school, there were ice skating for at least an hour, often two, before school every day. Then they would skate more in the afternoon, or dance, or do another sport entirely.

Needless to say, they needed a lot of calories!

To this day, my older daughter, who has a very slim build (size 4) eats like a hippo. It’s fun watching her eat. A few weeks ago, she was in a bar where the people didn’t know her. She order a huge meal and a beer. A few of the waiters told her, “That’s a lot of food. It’s really meant for two people.” She just laughed and said, “You don’t know me, do you?” She ate all of it. They were amazed.

Interestingly, neither of my children liked cake as children. Several times, I received calls from birthday parties from a worried mother asking me if my child was sick, because she wasn’t eating the cake.

They definitely didn’t get the “cake-hating gene” from me!

 

[Xantippe]

Cat said:

“Needless to say, they needed a lot of calories!”

I’ve been playing with a calorie calculator the past few days and I’ve been very struck by how keying in different activity levels and sizes and genders affects the calorie allowance. So I can easily imagine that in a classroom of children, some sedentary, some moderately active and some super athletic, some girls, some boys, some tall, some tiny, you could have dramatically different caloric needs.

 

[Cricket2]

Richard, you describe a fairly sorry dietary tale. The US diet and its impacts on children are well known around the world!

Have you had a chat with other parents to try and see how they view the offerings and the practices? Change is most unlikely (inconceivable in fact) if you are the lone voice.

In regard to the classroom treats, you would think that healthier alternatives would be readily available, and the teachers would acknowledge the merits. Alas, I’ve often found teachers, indeed school staff in general, to hold the view that their decisions ought generally to be considered above review, certainly by parents. That’s just my experience though.

Good Luck.

Your comments are right on. I once had a “confrontation” shall we say with our Director of Religious Ed because she was permitting artificial sweeteners to be used in the mixed drinks the Summer Bible School student were being served. I discovered this as several of my 3rd and 4th grade students were coming down with sudden headaches and nausea after recess and snack time.

I advised her that this had to stop and that she did not have the right to put other people’s kids on a “sugar free diet” just because she was on a weight loss plan. I also explained the dangers of these alternative sweeteners. In order to compromise we advised parents that students were being offered these drinks, but would also be offered water, juices, lemon aid with sugar or other naturally sweetened options like Kool-Aid.

Let’s just say no one drank the stuff with the artificial sweetener in it once they knew it was there, and the nausea and headaches vanished.

 

[pristine2]

You have a right to see that your child does not eat junk if that is your desire. You do not have a right to pass judgment on people that allow their children to eat snacks you do not allow.

Quite true. Do others have the right to tempt my child, who has never been exposed to this kind of “food” in such quantities before, without my permission? I’m just as irritated and astonished with the overtly sexualised marketing messages targeting my children. Should I be silent about this, too? Is it irrational to resent the influence of a corrupt society on one’s children, no matter what efforts one makes to inoculate them?

You do not have the right to dictate what everyone else eats.

Of course not. Should adults outside my family have the right to dangle objectively unhealthy “treats” in front of my child, with the implicit message that they can consume such items frequently without consequence? Do they have the right to interfere in my child’s diet at all? I’ve raised my children to trust their teachers. Should I now tell them not to? The obvious reality is that a large number of adults responsible for the care and education of children have little or no understanding of nutrition, yet feel entitled to dispense rubbish-quality “food”, often to help them control the children’s behaviour. It’s simply bad practice.

I 'm sorry, but the problem is yours, and it appears that you want the school to be the bad guy and not you.

Honestly, I don;t think you’re sorry. It seems more likely that you prefer to believe junk food is harmless. It isn’t, and the health status of the children around here makes that perfectly clear.

You should teach your child, as others have said they have done, to say no thank you, and to be strong enough to just not eat it. No one is standing there forcing them to eat it. An 8 year old is certainly able to resist, and certainly able to do something that no one else is doing.

Sorry, but this is very poor advice. Of course a child should be raised to make the right decisions in their own interests. But very few eight-year old children have the maturity, self-discipline and understanding of consequence to control their own diets. It is unambiguously the final responsibility of the parent to ensure that their eight year old children eat properly.

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

I think you should request that a meatless option is offered at least every Friday as per canon 1251 of the 1983 Code of Canon Law to abstain from meat on all Fridays is the universal law of the Catholic Church. Additionally most Eastern Catholic Churches also have Wednesday as a day of penance.

Personally I always packed my lunch.

 

[pristine2]

I think you should request that a meatless option is offered at least every Friday as per canon 1251 of the 1983 Code of Canon Law to abstain from meat on all Fridays is the universal law of the Catholic Church. Additionally most Eastern Catholic Churches also have Wednesday as a day of penance.

Thanks for this. I’ve been confused about what the rules actually were, and I was completely unaware of the Eastern practice.

Of course I’m not in a position to wade in and start quoting Catholic law. I’ve only mentioned the issue of meat on Fridays to a school administrator once, in passing, noting that I was surprised there was not fish on Fridays.

I was told the rules had changed at the same time as (but not by) Vatican II. I’ve read the following, but I cannot claim to understand how it fully applies in practice:

vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/apost_constitutions/documents/hf_p-vi_apc_19660217_paenitemini_en.html

Also, there aren’t any high school kids at the school, so most of the children are under the age of 14, to whom the rules of abstinence do not apply.

 

[PhiloMed]

Quite true. Do others have the right to tempt my child, who has never been exposed to this kind of “food” in such quantities before, without my permission? I’m just as irritated and astonished with the overtly sexualised marketing messages targeting my children. Should I be silent about this, too? Is it irrational to resent the influence of a corrupt society on one’s children, no matter what efforts one makes to inoculate them?

Of course not. Should adults outside my family have the right to dangle objectively unhealthy “treats” in front of my child, with the implicit message that they can consume such items frequently without consequence? Do they have the right to interfere in my child’s diet at all? I’ve raised my children to trust their teachers. Should I now tell them not to? The obvious reality is that a large number of adults responsible for the care and education of children have little or no understanding of nutrition, yet feel entitled to dispense rubbish-quality “food”, often to help them control the children’s behaviour. It’s simply bad practice.

Honestly, I don;t think you’re sorry. It seems more likely that you prefer to believe junk food is harmless. It isn’t, and the health status of the children around here makes that perfectly clear.

Sorry, but this is very poor advice. Of course a child should be raised to make the right decisions in their own interests. But very few eight-year old children have the maturity, self-discipline and understanding of consequence to control their own diets. It is unambiguously the final responsibility of the parent to ensure that their eight year old children eat properly.

I hope you understand that the responses you get here are an indicator of what you will face at the school.

If you respond like this you will soon be one of “those” parents who nobody wants to work with. You might be unintentionally creating a situation where your daughter becomes ostracized as well.

Tread carefully. As you said yourself, you’re not from around here and have been welcomed into a new community.

 

[Joe_5859]

Thanks for this. I’ve been confused about what the rules actually were, and I was completely unaware of the Eastern practice.

Of course I’m not in a position to wade in and start quoting Catholic law. I’ve only mentioned the issue of meat on Fridays to a school administrator once, in passing, noting that I was surprised there was not fish on Fridays.

I was told the rules had changed at the same time as (but not by) Vatican II. I’ve read the following, but I cannot claim to understand how it fully applies in practice:

vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/apost_constitutions/documents/hf_p-vi_apc_19660217_paenitemini_en.html

Also, there aren’t any high school kids at the school, so most of the children are under the age of 14, to whom the rules of abstinence do not apply.

In the United States, the USCCB’s Pastoral Statement on Penance and Abstinence is still in effect. It leaves it up to the individual to determine their Friday penance and no longer requires abstinence from meat (outside of Lent) as the only choice under pain of sin. This is within their rights to do in lieu of Canon 1253 in the Code of Canon Law.

Thus, we cannot really say that a Catholic school must not have meat on Fridays outside of Lent. But considering the tradition, it would still make sense for a Catholic school to do that.

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

Thanks for this. I’ve been confused about what the rules actually were, and I was completely unaware of the Eastern practice.

Of course I’m not in a position to wade in and start quoting Catholic law. I’ve only mentioned the issue of meat on Fridays to a school administrator once, in passing, noting that I was surprised there was not fish on Fridays.

I was told the rules had changed at the same time as (but not by) Vatican II. I’ve read the following, but I cannot claim to understand how it fully applies in practice:

vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/apost_constitutions/documents/hf_p-vi_apc_19660217_paenitemini_en.html

Also, there aren’t any high school kids at the school, so most of the children are under the age of 14, to whom the rules of abstinence do not apply.

Don’t recommend they have fish as fish is not cheap especially in noncoastal areas, merely recommend a vegetarian option.

In the United States, the USCCB’s Pastoral Statement on Penance and Abstinence is still in effect. It leaves it up to the individual to determine their Friday penance and no longer requires abstinence from meat (outside of Lent) as the only choice under pain of sin. This is within their rights to do in lieu of Canon 1253 in the Code of Canon Law.

Thus, we cannot really say that a Catholic school must not have meat on Fridays outside of Lent. But considering the tradition, it would still make sense for a Catholic school to do that.

Remember, it is left up to the individual and the universal law is still meatless Fridays. To refuse to offer a meatless option on Fridays is making it harder for the children to do what is morally right.

Indeed, we cannot say that a Catholic school must not have meat on Fridays outside of Lent, but it is in effect morally obligatory for them to offer a meatless option.

 

[Corki]

Don’t recommend they have fish as fish is not cheap especially in noncoastal areas, merely recommend a vegetarian option.

Remember, it is left up to the individual and the universal law is still meatless Fridays. To refuse to offer a meatless option on Fridays is making it harder for the children to do what is morally right.

Indeed, we cannot say that a Catholic school must not have meat on Fridays outside of Lent, but it is in effect morally obligatory for them to offer a meatless option.

Most of these children are under the age where any abstinence is required. The OP already said that peanut butter and jelly sandwiches are offered on Fridays. Not have more variety of meatless options is not a moral requirement.

 

[kbachler]

It’s a matter of money. The processed foods are cheaper.

Turns out while this is widely believed, it is not always true. There may be more work involved in prep (it isn’t just heating anymore, its actually cooking.)

Given the epidemic of nutritionally based poor health in this country, I think the OP should sit down with the school in a nice dialog; it won’t change overnight, but if you get a 20% improvement and then another 15% improvement, etc. over time, things will get better.

Perhaps start by suggesting one fairly simple fresh alternative daily.

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

Most of these children are under the age where any abstinence is required. The OP already said that peanut butter and jelly sandwiches are offered on Fridays. Not have more variety of meatless options is not a moral requirement.

And Wednesdays for Eastern Catholics?

Turns out while this is widely believed, it is not always true. There may be more work involved in prep (it isn’t just heating anymore, its actually cooking.)

Given the epidemic of nutritionally based poor health in this country, I think the OP should sit down with the school in a nice dialog; it won’t change overnight, but if you get a 20% improvement and then another 15% improvement, etc. over time, things will get better.

Perhaps start by suggesting one fairly simple fresh alternative daily.

Indeed, many places lack the facilities to prepare actual meals.

Also, improved nutrition has been shown to increase attendance, academic performance and reduce disciplinary issues.

 

[AnastasiaRomano]

I think the responses here are indicative of the responses you can expect when approaching your child’s school. When bringing this up, you’ll need to be very careful how you approach things – if other parents or school administrators feel like you’re bashing America, there’s likely to be a lot more resistance on their parts.

That said, I think there are some things you can do that might make some positive changes.

1. Get involved with whatever parent organization the school has or whatever events they have for parents. Meet other children’s parents and make friends with them. After a couple events, casually mention that you’ve noticed that there seem to be a lot of sugary treats in your child’s class and whether they’ve noticed the same thing? Allow them to share their thoughts. Then, gently share your thoughts and say that you know kids enjoy treats but that you worry it’s just a bit much sugar on a regular basis. As you get to know other parents, you will probably find a few who think similarly.
2. Then, once you’ve found a few parents who think similarly, discuss with them alternatives – e.g. stickers or pencils rather than sugary treats, classroom policies on birthday parties, etc. Your little group can then approach the school administration with this alternative plan. The administration probably would be more willing to discuss this if it’s a group (even a small group) of parents, rather than just you… And if you bring an alternative plan/ideas to discuss rather than just complaining about the current situation, that will probably help.
3. The lunchroom is harder because there are probably more financial issues involved. Again, though, I’d recommend the above approach and finding allies among other parents first. Then your little group can ask for incremental changes – e.g. including a fruit and vegetable each day, etc. You won’t change things overnight, but step by step things could improve.
4. As for meatless options, I think it’s pretty good that PBJ sandwiches are an option every Friday. Lent is approaching and I imagine that there will be meatless Friday lunches then. (Although, as a word of warning, the meatless Friday lunches I see most often in the schools here are macaroni and cheese, cheese pizza, or fish sticks – and I’m not sure you’d like those options.)

 

[maryjk]

Quite true. Do others have the right to tempt my child, who has never been exposed to this kind of “food” in such quantities before, without my permission? I’m just as irritated and astonished with the overtly sexualised marketing messages targeting my children. Should I be silent about this, too? Is it irrational to resent the influence of a corrupt society on one’s children, no matter what efforts one makes to inoculate them?

It is irrational to think that you can move into a community, send your child to their school then tell them that they are all in effect poisoning your child with “enormous levels of salt, cheap oils & fats, sugar and chemical sweeteners.” All without “causing offence.”

If I were you, I would chose one issue. I wouldn’t approach them with all of the problems you listed here. I wouldn’t chose Birthday celebrations. And I would focus on that issue.

Maybe offer to provide non-food treats for the teachers to use. That would cut down on the treats offered to your child without offending everyone else.

 

[Cricket2]

If it were really “now and then,” I’d agree, especially if the cupcakes were really cupcakes with five or six ingredients like butter, milk, eggs, flour and sugar. The ones sold by the supermarket “bakery” have 40 (forty) ingredients, most of which offer no benefit to the consumer, but are there to extend shelf life, lower manufacturing costs and enhance the impulse value of the product. Sorry, but I find this appalling. I really doubt you were fed this sort of rubbish as a child. On average, the kids are presented with processed sweets and packaged fried snacks three or four times a week at school alone. On top of that, the same practice is employed by the staff at the YMCA, which is supposed to have a healthy food policy.

Over the course of a typical month my child is offered more than enough low-quality food to lead her directly into a life-long struggle with obesity unless, by luck of the draw, she is genetically immune. Of course we encourage her to make good choices, but she is only eight years old, far too young to expect her to understand how to resist, especially when all her peers are indulging. We’re simply forced to intervene.

You may think it is obsessive, but we’ve lived in three other countries since our first child was born and have never faced anything like this problem before.

I have friends from England and France, and when they came to this country nearly 20 years ago they were shocked at the sugar and salt content in our foods and frankly the lack of quality. I had another friend from the Middle East. He too was disgusted at the flavorings, how meat smelled and tasted.

I got a chance to go to Germany and the difference if food is astonishing and in a good way. I only wish I could afford to go more organic, or import foods from other countries like France and Germany for myself. My sister and I do what we can. If folks want a good idea of how much junk is in our food in this country they should take the time to read the labels.

Of course most of the ingredients almost require a degree in chemistry to read. I am all for people going back to growing as much of their own foods as possible. We are lucky as we learned how to can and freeze foods as kids. Believe me the difference is alarming. I think if people got together as families and in the community to grow different fruits and veggies at home and share with each other it would be wonderful and life saving. I mean to do this in addition to any community gardens in existence.

Stand by your guns on this.

 

[mommy_k]

We have partnered with individual teachers regarding class parties, and just asked that the party list include a healthy option for kids who prefer this or have wheat, nut and milk allergies.
We have the lunch menu, and they buy one time a week when the healithiest option is there. Then we supplement nutrition at dinner if there are holes.We excercise daily regardless.
I think to forbid certain foods leads to temptation and dietary problems later like binging or anorexia.
We are all trim, so this is working for us. The key is healthy habits and teaching the right choices, and this develops healthy eating patterns. Then this becomes a non-issue.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I have friends from England and France, and when they came to this country nearly 20 years ago they were shocked at the sugar and salt content in our foods and frankly the lack of quality. I had another friend from the Middle East. He too was disgusted at the flavorings, how meat smelled and tasted.

I got a chance to go to Germany and the difference if food is astonishing and in a good way. I only wish I could afford to go more organic, or import foods from other countries like France and Germany for myself. My sister and I do what we can. If folks want a good idea of how much junk is in our food in this country they should take the time to read the labels.

Of course most of the ingredients almost require a degree in chemistry to read. I am all for people going back to growing as much of their own foods as possible. We are lucky as we learned how to can and freeze foods as kids. Believe me the difference is alarming. I think if people got together as families and in the community to grow different fruits and veggies at home and share with each other it would be wonderful and life saving. I mean to do this in addition to any community gardens in existence.

Stand by your guns on this.

In Europe, food costs about twice as much as it does here, relative to peoples’ income. This country long ago decided that food would be as low a segment of peoples’ budgets as possible. Undoubtedly, the industrialization of food production is part of that.

In Japan, by way of another example, the cost of beef is astronomical. And, it’s true, too, that Japanese-Americans are bigger and taller than Japanese raised in Japan. Angus beef from America costs anywhere from $56 to $188/lb, depending on the cut. Kobe beef, expensive in the U.S. at $169/lb costs $1100/lb in Japan.

Choices get made, and there are consequences to those choices.

Maybe this should change, and maybe it shouldn’t. But a great deal would have to change for Americans to begin eating like the French do.

But I don’t know that one could rightly accuse Bavarians of being extraordinarily svelte. Those are big people in every way there is to be big.

 

[Sereta]

I completely agree with you.
There should at least be healthy options,even if they cost more.
In Australia some schools have healthy meal options such as yoghurt etc.
I think one of the biggest problems you might face is the ignorance regarding health issues from the parents themselves.
Often,the parents can be overweight themselves so attempting to change their childrens diets to healthy can be met by resistance or defensiveness.
I think you need to tackle the health of the families/community itself.
It’s best,as someone mentioned,to get together with likeminded other parents first.
If none exist,then your first challenge might need to be in the community rather then the school itself.
The other problem is attitude.
Many people have a mindset that healthy is too difficult or expensive.
In addition,some places like school or hospital kitchen staff simply prepare meals for duties sake,they put no love into it.

Does the school your referring to pay for the meals or does each child pay per meal in a canteen setting?

It’s true that healthier options can be more expensive,but creative ways can be thought up to keep in budget while making meals as healthy as possible.
When a person is aware that healthy foods are needed for brain growth,concentration and attention,they no longer see fast food as an option.

Maybe first try to assess exactly why your school has no healthy options.Eg:is it purely due or costs or is due to health “ignorance” etc…
Once you’ve done the groundwork,you can go from there.

Instead of saying to them junk food is bad and appalling etc,use terms like junk food/sweet s or ok occasionally in moderation.

Perhaps you could suggest for the kids to do a project on healthy foods/eating
Or a chef to come out and demonstrate some quick healthy meals?

Have you tried the below site to see if there’s a Nutritionist that could come out to your area?

m.nutritionists.healthprofs.com/cam/prof_search.php

keepyourdietreal.com/food/news/20-quick-and-healthy-snacks/

yummyinspirations.net/2013/04/40-healthy-kids-snack-ideas/#sthash.YDEQL26B.gBCHvO4p.dpbs

health.gov.au/internet/publications/publishing.nsf/Content/nhsc-guidelines

 

[aloe]

school-bites.com/stop-feeding-my-kid-junk-food-at-school/

I would focus on the “extras” since you have an option to pack a lunch but don’t have an option when other adults (that you are paying to teach your child) are feeding your kid complete junk frequently while in their care.