Catholic Schools and Abortion

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I wouldn’t expect the Catholic schools to teach your kids anything on the whole morals thing. I attended Catholic school K-12 and probably 90% of what I know about the faith I learned on my own, after graduationg, when I reverted.

I remember in health class one student said that “his grandma had said that the birth control pill was a sin” the teacher flutted and flitted around the question andnever said once that “yes, she’s right. It’s a mortal sin, as is any form of artificial contraception…” This was in high school, it wasn’t like we couldn’t handle the info or something. We all thought that was funny, the old lady must be nuts - abc a sin? Why it was just being sensible…:rolleyes:

I don’t mind the Catholic schools but as far as your kids morals are concerned that’s gonna have to be your turf. When I have kids I don’t know if I’ll send them to Catholic schools or not, but either way, their moral formation will take place at home.
 
I showed my 11 year old pictures of aborted babies. He was shocked, but gosh darn it got the converstaion going. Now i need to keep it up. he’s only 11, but I wanted to make sure I had the ‘jump on things’ sort to speak.

the only advice I have to give for a fifteen year old:
  1. show her pictures of aborted babies; most likely her position is purely emotional, thus counter it with emotion. Aborted babies will probably round up an emotional response stronger than whatever caused her position in the first place.
  2. Once you KNOW you have her attention, tell her just how wrong it all is to kill antoher human being.
  3. Lock her in the closet for the next 10 years.
That’s all I have. Hopefully #1 will be enough to get her through the teenage years and into the ‘thinking’ era of her life.
 
And Celia, though I understand the intent of your sig, it is erroneous.

You CAN be catholic and pro-choice at the same time. Everyone who has been baptised are catholics, no matter what. It is an immovable mark on the soul.

If you where to say:

“You cannot be pro-choice and follow catholic teachings.” then this would be accurate.

I think the distinction is important; we as catholics should never reject a sinner no matter what sin, but always reject the sin for all sins.
 
Maureen Fiore:
I have a gripe about how my children view abortion. I was shocked when my 15yr. old told me that she feels abortion is bad but if a teenager gets pregnant than it is ok for her to terminate her pregnancy if she does not want the baby. I told her that it was wrong and I am shocked that she would think like this. She has spent 9yrs in a Catholic school and to make a statement like that was outrageous. I have two other children in a Catholic School and not once does their religion homework speak of the evils of abortion. Why are the Catholic Schools afraid to teach the evils of abortion. I had to explain to my daughter (15yr) why it is wrong and I plan to keep her informed of the brutality of the killing of innocent life. Any ideas concerning this matter? I cannot believe that abortion is not mentioned in her old grade school. She attends a public HS.
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I do not see this as a global problem with “Catholic Schools” but perhaps a problem with your specific school. Also, I think that schools can only do so much and must be complemented and supplemented by faith in action at home.

At the grade school level, it can be a complicated thing to discuss abortion. I would think some minimal discussion of the dignity of the person and the humanity of the child would be appropriate. The gruesome details may not be appropriate at younger ages, but setting the stage for understanding why abortion is wrong is certainly a must.

Since your daughter does not go to a Catholic HS, I cannot say what she would have gotten at the HS level.

I did prayer and sidewalk counseling at PP when I lived in Houston, and there were high school groups and parish youth groups that would come out to pray from time to time. So, there are some places that are not only teaching the injustice of abortion but also calling their young people to action and witness.

As for ideas, your 15 yo can certainly understand the literature found at www.omsoul.com and www.hh76.com as well as some great books like Pro Life Answers To Pro Choice Arguments by Randy Alcorn. I’d also recommend getting into the topic of contraception, not just abortion.

Go and pray outside an abortion clinic or volunteer at a CPC with your daughter and younger children. Many families would come pray at the abortion clinics with us-- and those young people were 100% pro life based on what they witnessed about the truth of abortion.

Lastly, talk to the catholic school administration to discuss why this is not being taught and how to change the curriculum. Get involved at the school.
 
I figure that, as a mother, the education of my children is *my *responsibility, not the school’s. Schools exist to assist me with the education of my children. I am my kids’ primary teacher. Nobody, even the best teacher in the world, will have my kids for as many years as I do. Nobody else can be as good an example to them of Catholic teaching as I and my husband can.

I agree that a Catholic school should cover the issue of abortion. But since it didn’t, it’s your responsibility as a parent to cover it. And how did this girl live fifteen years in your home without you ever discussing this with her before?
 
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Crow:
I showed my 11 year old pictures of aborted babies. He was shocked, but gosh darn it got the converstaion going. Now i need to keep it up. he’s only 11, but I wanted to make sure I had the ‘jump on things’ sort to speak.

the only advice I have to give for a fifteen year old:
  1. show her pictures of aborted babies; most likely her position is purely emotional, thus counter it with emotion. Aborted babies will probably round up an emotional response stronger than whatever caused her position in the first place.
I have told her how babies are aborted. I used the internet and I also showed her pictures. She was shocked to see this.
  1. Once you KNOW you have her attention, tell her just how wrong it all is to kill antoher human being.
  2. Lock her in the closet for the next 10 years.
I wish I could and keep her safe but unfortunately, society makes it hard for parents to keep your child on the right track. I can only stress my point of view and keep God in our lives and house.

That’s all I have. Hopefully #1 will be enough to get her through the teenage years and into the ‘thinking’ era of her life.
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I showed my 11 year old pictures of aborted babies. He was shocked, but gosh darn it got the converstaion going. Now i need to keep it up. he’s only 11, but I wanted to make sure I had the ‘jump on things’ sort to speak.
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WHAT!!

You showed pictures of aborted babies to your children!

I am against abortion, but I do not think showing children pictures of aborted babies is good.

I speny 7 years in Catholic education (although I don’t now) my mum is a Catholic teacher, and I have learnt about abortion and religious perspectives through my non religious school. A school probably does not want to force ideas upon a child, as that is not educating, but rather brainwashing. It is unprofessional for a teacher to present anything other than fact, and to show an opinion on a matter. Also, say someone in your daughters class has a relative who had a termination (for what ever reason) - how bad would they feel hearing the teacher going on about it?

I would simply talk with your daughter, I am really sure she would value you simply talking the matter over in a civilised conversation with her, as opposed to simply being annoyed, or not letting her defend her viewpoint.

Hope it works out.
 
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1ke:
I do not see this as a global problem with “Catholic Schools” but perhaps a problem with your specific school. Also, I think that schools can only do so much and must be complemented and supplemented by faith in action at home.

At the grade school level, it can be a complicated thing to discuss abortion. I would think some minimal discussion of the dignity of the person and the humanity of the child would be appropriate. The gruesome details may not be appropriate at younger ages, but setting the stage for understanding why abortion is wrong is certainly a must.

Since your daughter does not go to a Catholic HS, I cannot say what she would have gotten at the HS level.

I did prayer and sidewalk counseling at PP when I lived in Houston, and there were high school groups and parish youth groups that would come out to pray from time to time. So, there are some places that are not only teaching the injustice of abortion but also calling their young people to action and witness.

As for ideas, your 15 yo can certainly understand the literature found at www.omsoul.com and www.hh76.com as well as some great books like Pro Life Answers To Pro Choice Arguments by Randy Alcorn. I’d also recommend getting into the topic of contraception, not just abortion.

Go and pray outside an abortion clinic or volunteer at a CPC with your daughter and younger children. Many families would come pray at the abortion clinics with us-- and those young people were 100% pro life based on what they witnessed about the truth of abortion.

Lastly, talk to the catholic school administration to discuss why this is not being taught and how to change the curriculum. Get involved at the school.
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Good Sound Advice. Thank You. I plan to look into these things.

Thanks
 
Kay Cee:
I figure that, as a mother, the education of my children is *my *responsibility, not the school’s. Schools exist to assist me with the education of my children. I am my kids’ primary teacher. Nobody, even the best teacher in the world, will have my kids for as many years as I do. Nobody else can be as good an example to them of Catholic teaching as I and my husband can.

I agree that a Catholic school should cover the issue of abortion. But since it didn’t, it’s your responsibility as a parent to cover it. And how did this girl live fifteen years in your home without you ever discussing this with her before?
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She is well informed on my position on abortion. We go to church as a family every Sunday. I felt there was no need to explain to her about this evil. However, outside the home is where the problem lies. She has friends who take up a different view (pro-choice) and she started to fall into their trap. Fortunately, she was pulled back by me.
 
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Crow:
I showed my 11 year old pictures of aborted babies. He was shocked, but gosh darn it got the converstaion going. Now i need to keep it up. he’s only 11, but I wanted to make sure I had the ‘jump on things’ sort to speak.

the only advice I have to give for a fifteen year old:
  1. show her pictures of aborted babies; most likely her position is purely emotional, thus counter it with emotion. Aborted babies will probably round up an emotional response stronger than whatever caused her position in the first place.
  2. Once you KNOW you have her attention, tell her just how wrong it all is to kill antoher human being.
  3. Lock her in the closet for the next 10 years.
That’s all I have. Hopefully #1 will be enough to get her through the teenage years and into the ‘thinking’ era of her life.
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Another suggestion, which can fall between 1 & 2, is to give her the testimonies of women who have had abortions and regretted it. There are so many women out there who have had an abortion and suffer from it for the rest of their lives. Just as having a baby is life changing so is having an abortion. Here is a link to some of the saddest stories I’ve ever read.

afterabortion.org/
 
My daughter when she made that statement was not sure how she stood on abortion. This originally started in her history class and an assignment that she had to do. She had to do an essay on any topic. She chose abortion because the majority of the class decided to do that topic. She asked me what position she should take, I said your kidding right? I told her Con and that is when it all started to unravel. This is what I mean by outside influence. She told me that she did not believe in it but kids in her class feel that it is up to the person to make the decision to do away with an unwanted pregnancy. She tried to test the waters with me on this subject and I pretty much told her it is wrong and above all a grave sin.
 
Maureen Fiore:
She is well informed on my position on abortion. We go to church as a family every Sunday. I felt there was no need to explain to her about this evil. However, outside the home is where the problem lies. She has friends who take up a different view (pro-choice) and she started to fall into their trap. Fortunately, she was pulled back by me.
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It’s good that you’ve pulled her back, but I’m surprised you felt there was no need to explain to her about this evil.
 
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Crow:
And Celia, though I understand the intent of your sig, it is erroneous.

You CAN be catholic and pro-choice at the same time. Everyone who has been baptised are catholics, no matter what. It is an immovable mark on the soul.

If you where to say:

“You cannot be pro-choice and follow catholic teachings.” then this would be accurate.

I think the distinction is important; we as catholics should never reject a sinner no matter what sin, but always reject the sin for all sins.
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Oh, whatever. :rolleyes: People get the point of what I’m saying. You are not being a true Catholic and following the teachings of the faith if you are pro-choice. If my sig is going to cause “issues”, I’ll change it. :rolleyes:
 
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Celia:
Oh, whatever. :rolleyes: People get the point of what I’m saying. You are not being a true Catholic and following the teachings of the faith if you are pro-choice. If my sig is going to cause “issues”, I’ll change it. :rolleyes:
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Exactly- no need to split hairs
 
Sometimes we call others’ being careful with out words “splitting hairs.”

Other times we insist on others to have every jot and tittle exactly right.

It’s always fun to see the different expectations that those writing and those reading have of the other, in an ostensible communications exchange.

Alan
 
It is the consistent position of the Catholic Church that it is the primary responsibility of the PARENTS to teach children the physical aspects of sexuality and reproduction, not the school. They cannot abrogate that duty to anyone else. In order to explain abortion you must first explain pregnancy. In the schools the proper context is age appropriate teaching biology and physiology, and in the religion class, in the context of the sacrament of marriage, the commandments, social justice and morality.

The sacraments are introduced in 3rd grade typically, and the commandments in 4th grade. In my opinion as a parent and religious educator it is entirely inappropriate for the school or CCD to be teaching physical aspects of reproduction at this age. It is also, pedagogically, wrong to teach the abnormal and wrong without teaching first the normal and right. (This by the way is the foundation of my whole gripe with Safe Touching programs).

that being said I agree heartily that many religion texts are quite lengthy on social justice and respect for others and terse on just war, abortion and other issues. The new National Directory for Catechesis unfortunately, in listing what must be taught on the commandments, commits this same error of weight. There is a split between teaching social justice and abortion which reflects the artificial split between them in the “liberal” and “conservative” wings of the Church.

Also, as is noted, too many teachers in Catholic schools do not understand, believe and accept Catholic teaching. And I might add the majority of Catholic parents do not either.

Parents, teach this at home. Insist that your child’s Catholic grade school, high school and college teach faithfully according to the magesterium. If you do not you are pouring money into a system that is warping your child’s beliefs, and tacitly cooperating with it. But remember this, the school will not succeed if it has not first been taught, believed and lived at home.
 
Kay Cee:
It’s good that you’ve pulled her back, but I’m surprised you felt there was no need to explain to her about this evil.
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I guess it was a subject that I never thought of talking about with her. She is only fifteen and I felt she would just follow by my actions. She knows how much my religion means to me and I guess she would be a faithful follower like her mother and father. Abortion really was not the issue. I knew as a parent to teach her about abstinence and to never have sex until she was married. This was important to me to explain to her. Abortion really never was mentioned because I figured at her age I needed to keep her safe and to teach her that she should save herself until she was married. I stressed to her to abstain from sexual relations. Let’s face it, abortion would not exist if we as parents stressed to our children to wait until marriage before engaging in sexual relations. Once again our society goes against the Catholic teachings.
 
Maureen Fiore:
Let’s face it, abortion would not exist if we as parents stressed to our children to wait until marriage before engaging in sexual relations.
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Thank you! No promiscuity, no customers, therefore no money and no abortion business.

I have four teenagers and two younger ones. In the past few years, I have recognized that there is so much effort focused on fighting abortion at the political level that we as Catholics may not be significantly (statistics-wise) better than non-Catholics in terms of promiscuity.

When Catholics reduce teenage promiscuity by half of what it is now and thus quit funding the abortion mills (let’s face it – Catholics are customers of these businesses in way too many cases) in a large enough number, then the world will take notice.

The world judges us (and thus responds to our messages) based on its own credibility criteria, statistics being one of them. The world does not want to hear about child-rearing from a group whose own children are no different, and I can’t say that I blame them. If we want to rise above the world, we must fight on spiritual turf and win decisively, when it comes to issues of morality. Love is stronger than guns, but it doesn’t work unless it’s tried.

Alan
 
Maureen Fiore:
I guess it was a subject that I never thought of talking about with her. She is only fifteen and I felt she would just follow by my actions. She knows how much my religion means to me and I guess she would be a faithful follower like her mother and father. Abortion really was not the issue. I knew as a parent to teach her about abstinence and to never have sex until she was married. This was important to me to explain to her. Abortion really never was mentioned because I figured at her age I needed to keep her safe and to teach her that she should save herself until she was married. I stressed to her to abstain from sexual relations. Let’s face it, abortion would not exist if we as parents stressed to our children to wait until marriage before engaging in sexual relations. Once again our society goes against the Catholic teachings.
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Well, now I’m confused. Didn’t you say in your original post–
She has spent 9yrs in a Catholic school and to make a statement like that was outrageous. I have two other children in a Catholic School and not once does their religion homework speak of the evils of abortion. Why are the Catholic Schools afraid to teach the evils of abortion.
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Sounds to me like you’re saying you didn’t teach the subject because you thought it was not age appropriate, yet you are upset at the Catholic school for not teaching it.
 
Kay Cee:
Well, now I’m confused. Didn’t you say in your original post–

Sounds to me like you’re saying you didn’t teach the subject because you thought it was not age appropriate, yet you are upset at the Catholic school for not teaching it.
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No you misuderstood my original post. I was upset with my daughter to take on a view that was against the Church teachings. I figured having been taught in the Catholic faith, first by me learning the fundamentals and reinforcing it in the Catholic school I wondered why she would have a difference of opinion. That’s all. Maybe I confused you initially and I am sorry for that.
 
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