Catholic Schools and Abortion

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KayCee,

Please read my post #31. I think this is how the subject of abortion came up and how I made my original post.
 
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mlchance:
Grade school is too early to discuss abortion with children except in the most general of terms (i.e., abortion kills an unborn child, and Thou shalt not kill). More detailed conversations are the parents’ responsibilities.

Now to more specifically answer the OP’s question, “Any ideas concerning this matter?”

Here’s my idea as both a father and a Catholic school teacher: Stop expecting the Catholic schools to do your job regarding the moral formation of your children.

– Mark L. Chance.
I’m not expecting the Catholic school to do my job! As a Catholic parent I know I am their first teacher that they have. I believe I brought my children up morally. But I feel that as you get into the upper grades (6,7,8) nothing is mentioned and told to these children about abortion or better yet abstaining from sexual relations until you are married is not stressed enough. As a parent, we continue to stress abstinence with my daughter (she is by no means promiscuis). But that does not mean every Catholic parent is telling their teenager daughter the same thing. My daughter has a good moral foundation that my husband and I have helped built. The rest is up to her and her conscience.
 
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m134e5:
Exactly- no need to split hairs
Thank you. 🙂 That’s what I was thinking.

I’ve been looking around for a new one though anyway. I guess it’s time to change. We’ll see what I come up with. 😉
 
I agree that we need to teach our kids the importance of waiting until marriage, and working with them to develop the strength necessary to live that conviction. Because of conversations I’ve had with the mothers of several of my daughters close friends, I know that this in NOT the lesson they’ll be teaching their daughters. They’ll be teaching them to wait “until it’s right” or “until you’re ready” or some other ambiguous message that curls my hair. It was exactly such a conversation, when our girls were merely 5 yrs old, that I realized in untenability of such a position and began my journey back to Catholicism. I knew that moral teaching wasn’t sound logic.

So, with this being the reality of the world my daughter is growing up in, I’ve taught her from the beginning that she is likely to encounter a LOT of teaching from the world suggesting that truth is a lie and that lies are the truth in matters pertaining to morality. I’ve worked with her to understand what Pope JP II has taught in Theology of the Body, and I’ve tried to equip her to be a beacon of light in the darkness. At the same time, she has taught me that she can be that beacon, and she already, at the young age of 13, has been an awesome witness to life among her non-believing friends.

We CAN teach our children, and they in turn can take it up a notch and teach their peers.

God Bless all the children,

CARose
 
wisdom 3:5:
Another suggestion, which can fall between 1 & 2, is to give her the testimonies of women who have had abortions and regretted it. There are so many women out there who have had an abortion and suffer from it for the rest of their lives. Just as having a baby is life changing so is having an abortion. Here is a link to some of the saddest stories I’ve ever read.

afterabortion.org/
Testimony From A Post Abortive Woman on "Catholic Answers"

**In case you missed it live, you can listen to the achived copy below. Please forward to anyone who may be interested…

**This is one of the best Catholic Answers Shows EVER! Please be sure to listen!!

Yvonne Florczak-Seeman “A Time to Speak” on 2-17-06

www2.catholic.com/radio/cale…ar=1&category=0

Listen (Real)Click here to listen to show in Real audio format

Download (Real)Right click this link and select Save to download

Listen (MP3)Click here to listen to show in MP3 audio format

http://www.lovefromaboveinc.com
 
Maureen Fiore:
No you misuderstood my original post. I was upset with my daughter to take on a view that was against the Church teachings. I figured having been taught in the Catholic faith, first by me learning the fundamentals and reinforcing it in the Catholic school I wondered why she would have a difference of opinion. That’s all. Maybe I confused you initially and I am sorry for that.
No apology necessary. Obviously, I misread you.
 
I woulld say “so what” that she attended Catholic Schools, why did she not hear and get taught this at home. Home is were real values are taught, why does everyone beleive our schools are suppose to raise our kids for us.
 
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Celia:
Oh, whatever. :rolleyes: People get the point of what I’m saying. You are not being a true Catholic and following the teachings of the faith if you are pro-choice. If my sig is going to cause “issues”, I’ll change it. :rolleyes:
lol

Not at all.

As long as uyou now the distinction during whatever converstaioins it is going to cause.

I think that provocation of a good conversation makes for a good sig, but you need to keep that converstaion on the facts.

caryy on 😛
 
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Fr_Chuck:
I woulld say “so what” that she attended Catholic Schools, why did she not hear and get taught this at home. Home is were real values are taught, why does everyone beleive our schools are suppose to raise our kids for us.
Excuse me your Excellency, but I am not and nor do I believe it is the Catholic Schools job to raise MY CHILDREN. Please read my several post on this issue. I have never claimed that it is the school’s responsibility to teach real moral values. If I assumed that than I would be a fool (which I am not). I just feel that in the upper grades (6,7,8) there is no mention that abortion is evil and a grave sin. It seems that we are not being real and letting our children know how evil our society can be. We teach them about love and to be good Catholic Christians but once they leave the school they meet the real world. I have taught my daugher to stay away from drugs, smoking and above all, to stay pure. As a parent I felt how could she feel differently about this matter after spending 9yrs in a Catholic school plus living in a family environment that is very much a aware of our Catholic Faith.

Oh, and by the way, why would I bring up the subject of abortion to her when I am teaching her to refrain from sexual relations until she is married. That is my job! If I speak to her about abortion and not stress to abstain what kind of a signal is that.
 
I agree with Crow - show her the pictures. 15 is old enough to be able to handle seeing them, and it is expecially important tnat young women see the reality of abortion. I wouldn’t show them to a child under 12, but teenagers are old enough to face the unpleasant realities of life and often are having promiscuity and birth control aggressively marketed to them, while abortion is presented in a sanitized, innocuous way. I became pro-life after seeing these photos at age 16, and at 20 had an unplanned (and very badly timed) pregnancy; if I hadn’t been exposed to these pictures I might have had an abortion myself; so I’m very grateful to the people who showed them to me, since in a way my daughter owes her life to them.
 
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BlindSheep:
I agree with Crow - show her the pictures. 15 is old enough to be able to handle seeing them, and it is expecially important tnat young women see the reality of abortion. I wouldn’t show them to a child under 12, but teenagers are old enough to face the unpleasant realities of life and often are having promiscuity and birth control aggressively marketed to them, while abortion is presented in a sanitized, innocuous way. I became pro-life after seeing these photos at age 16, and at 20 had an unplanned (and very badly timed) pregnancy; if I hadn’t been exposed to these pictures I might have had an abortion myself; so I’m very grateful to the people who showed them to me, since in a way my daughter owes her life to them.
I actually did go to numerous websites and showed her what abortion is and that it is a horrific destruction of human life. She was shocked and told me that this was sad. But in her class where this assignment was given many students felt it was a women’s right to choose and my daughter’s pro-life stand was overshadowed by the many young people who disagree with her. My daughter in her future years will need to stand strong against this type of ideology in her future. She is a good kid and brought up in our faith, but I think before they leave grade school they should know just how cruel our society is. It is not all love and peace.
 
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Crow:
lol

Not at all.

As long as uyou now the distinction during whatever converstaioins it is going to cause.

I think that provocation of a good conversation makes for a good sig, but you need to keep that converstaion on the facts.

caryy on 😛
Okey dokey then. I think I might pick something more Lent-specific soon anyway. Maybe not. We’ll see. shrug
 
Maureen Fiore said:
**She is well informed on my position on abortion. ** We go to church as a family every Sunday. I felt there was no need to explain to her about this evil. However, outside the home is where the problem lies. She has friends who take up a different view (pro-choice) and she started to fall into their trap. Fortunately, she was pulled back by me.

I highlighted the most important issue… your daughter may understand YOUR position, but not able to understand or formulate one of HER own. You’ve started right with her though, in getting the discussion going and explaining it to her so she can make her own decision and stand firm on it. 👍

My mother made this very mistake I highlighted except I really didn’t understand her position either. I assumed that because we were Catholic, we were against abortion. So when I found myself in a position of what my parents thought was an unwanted pregnancy and they offered to pay for an abortion, I was so confused because I thought it was wrong and here I have the two people I’m supposed to trust telling me it’s ok (it’s because it would have made them look bad and they hated the father of the baby). Needless to say, I didn’t make the right choices, I didn’t stand firm on what I wanted (which was to keep the baby) and 10 years later, I’m still trying to find it in my heart to forgive them for forcing me into an abortion. What a shame it is to learn at 19 that you can never trust your own parents ever again.

And it’s the parents responsibility to teach their children about sexual morals (among many other things.) I have a 12 yr old neice that I will end up having to teach about sexual morals as my sister refuses to teach her. I’ve asked and she goes “Oh, the school will do that.” (yes, my neice attends a Catholic school too) It’s bothersome as most Catholic schools don’t have just Catholic kids so they have to give broad brushstrokes that don’t even come close to teaching about sexual morals. It’s insane.

Good luck to you though!!! Your daughter is lucky to have a mother willing to discuss this issue with her! 🙂
 
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tamccrackine:
I highlighted the most important issue… your daughter may understand YOUR position, but not able to understand or formulate one of HER own. You’ve started right with her though, in getting the discussion going and explaining it to her so she can make her own decision and stand firm on it. 👍

My mother made this very mistake I highlighted except I really didn’t understand her position either. I assumed that because we were Catholic, we were against abortion. So when I found myself in a position of what my parents thought was an unwanted pregnancy and they offered to pay for an abortion, I was so confused because I thought it was wrong and here I have the two people I’m supposed to trust telling me it’s ok (it’s because it would have made them look bad and they hated the father of the baby). Needless to say, I didn’t make the right choices, I didn’t stand firm on what I wanted (which was to keep the baby) and 10 years later, I’m still trying to find it in my heart to forgive them for forcing me into an abortion. What a shame it is to learn at 19 that you can never trust your own parents ever again.

And it’s the parents responsibility to teach their children about sexual morals (among many other things.) I have a 12 yr old neice that I will end up having to teach about sexual morals as my sister refuses to teach her. I’ve asked and she goes “Oh, the school will do that.” (yes, my neice attends a Catholic school too) It’s bothersome as most Catholic schools don’t have just Catholic kids so they have to give broad brushstrokes that don’t even come close to teaching about sexual morals. It’s insane.

Good luck to you though!!! Your daughter is lucky to have a mother willing to discuss this issue with her! 🙂
What a shame! My heart goes out to you. I told my daughter that she should first above all be careful and strong. But, as a parent you can only keep them safe for so long. If she ever gets into a situation like that I would make it my business to help her and help raise her child. If she chooses not to keep the child, I would help her with the adoption process. But, more than likely I would keep my grandchild.
 
i just htought I would say, in my own defense, that showing the pictures to my 11 year old was nt a decision I took lightly. I mulled it over quite a bit, and discussed it with my spouse (of course).

Antoher thing I want to point out, is that I did not merely walk into his room and flash the pictures and hang them on his walls. I sat him down, talked to him about abortion. we talked for nearly half an hour I told him about the pictures long before I showed them. I made certain he was ready, adn I told him to brace himself.

I showed him pictures of healthy babies in the womb; he liked those. And then, when he was ready, I showed the aborted babies. he looked at the pictures for about 30 seconds (5 seconds each) if that; but it was enough.

I asked himp; when you’ll be a teenager, and someone will try to convince you that abortion is a right and not murder; what will you say? He said “There is no way I’ll ever ofrget those pictures.”.

Ya, it might have traumatised him a little; but I rather that then have to debate with him when he’s 16.
 
I think it’s harder for teen girls to be against abortion, because they could be in the position. Every time I want to declare myself prolife, I suddenly imagine myself either getting raped or stupidly having sex before I’m out of school and somehow getting pregnant. The thought of being pregnant in school, of facing my friends and family members, of explaining to my little brother how it happened, going through that trauma, is one of the worst things I can imagine. And that makes me want to keep abortion legal, but more restricted, in certain cases. I know the baby is innocent and e ven though I know it would be wrong and I’d be devastated if I had to, I cant say for certain I wouldn’t have an abortion, because it would be so difficult. If I was out of school, had a job, and was out of the gossipy school environment, i don’t think I’d ever abort an unplanned pregnancy. But if I got pregnant now, I might be very thankful that abortion is legal. Maybe your daughter feels the same way.
 
I think your actions were correct and I think that we need to send a message to our children that abortion is wrong. But, really the main issue is pre-marital sex. We all know that abortion is wrong, but if we don’t start telling our children about keeping pure until marriage than this evil will continue. My daugher is of the right age (15yrs) so I always keep reinforcing abstinence. I told her that she will never have to worry if she gets into a problem. I told her she must not be scared and come to me and I will help her make the right choice. But, I hope and pray that will not happen.
 
I agree the real issue is sex, and I have already started talking to my 11 year old about it though very lightly mind you. General comments like: sex is for marraige, sex is what makes children, sex is sacred. nothing of abstinence thus far 'casue I don’t think he’d understand just yet. I’m thinking of waiting till he’s about 13 or 14. the thing is, i think we should talk about it before the darn thing kicks in; anything less is ‘after the fact’.

Maybe I’m just overly paranoid…
 
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siamesecat:
I think it’s harder for teen girls to be against abortion, because they could be in the position. Every time I want to declare myself prolife, I suddenly imagine myself either getting raped or stupidly having sex before I’m out of school and somehow getting pregnant. The thought of being pregnant in school, of facing my friends and family members, of explaining to my little brother how it happened, going through that trauma, is one of the worst things I can imagine. And that makes me want to keep abortion legal, but more restricted, in certain cases. I know the baby is innocent and e ven though I know it would be wrong and I’d be devastated if I had to, I cant say for certain I wouldn’t have an abortion, because it would be so difficult. If I was out of school, had a job, and was out of the gossipy school environment, i don’t think I’d ever abort an unplanned pregnancy. But if I got pregnant now, I might be very thankful that abortion is legal. Maybe your daughter feels the same way.
Ya know she did. That was one of the reasons why she said what she said. She told me it would be embarrassing to come into school with a big belly. I told her that is a life that you are carrying you made a mistake. It maybe hard at first, but I would tell her that if you do not want to raise this child, I would or I would look into adoption. Of course, this is a very hard decision but this is how our faith stays strong. I would support her throughout her pregnancy and any decision she makes. I am her mother and I love her but I would never consider abortion. She could not sign the papers so she would have to have it.
 
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siamesecat:
I think it’s harder for teen girls to be against abortion, because they could be in the position. Every time I want to declare myself prolife, I suddenly imagine myself either getting raped or stupidly having sex before I’m out of school and somehow getting pregnant. The thought of being pregnant in school, of facing my friends and family members, of explaining to my little brother how it happened, going through that trauma, is one of the worst things I can imagine. And that makes me want to keep abortion legal, but more restricted, in certain cases. I know the baby is innocent and e ven though I know it would be wrong and I’d be devastated if I had to, I cant say for certain I wouldn’t have an abortion, because it would be so difficult. If I was out of school, had a job, and was out of the gossipy school environment, i don’t think I’d ever abort an unplanned pregnancy. But if I got pregnant now, I might be very thankful that abortion is legal. Maybe your daughter feels the same way.
Rape and incest are two options that still don’t make sense to validate abortion. It’s not the baby’s fault, so why should the baby have to die?

As for the others… Bl. Mother Teresa summed it up best… “What a shame it is for a mother to kill her own child so that she may live as she pleases.” What a cop out to say it’ll be embarrassing to have to be visibly pregnant therefore abortion should be allowed to remain legal. That embarrassment should be motivation enough to not have sex! (Sorry, but if you see my post above about me being pregnant and how my parents offered to pay for an abortion because it would look bad for them to have a teenager pregnant…that explains my reaction)

Babies don’t always come at the most convienent time. I’m a military wife, trust me… if I wanted to get pregnant when life would be easiest… I’d never have kids because SOMEthing always comes up to throw a wrench into my plans. I’ve been pregnant for every move we made except this last one and this last one, I had a baby 8 days before hopping behind the wheel of my truck, hooking a trailer up and driving 5 days from GA to CA.

My grandfather always said that the fastest way to make God laugh was to tell Him your plans for your life. You sound young… please don’t fall into that trap of assuming you have to be financially secure, “out of school” and all that material jazz to think you’ll be happy with a baby only if those criterion are met.
God Bless!!
 
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