Catholic Schools and pregnant students

[AlanFromWichita]

OMG,

I just thought of something terrible.

What if these Catholic leaders actually did know and understand all of this – but decided with full intent that it is more important to protect the school image?

I’ve been going off as if they were fools, blind to their own ignorant ways. It never even occurred to me after years of grappling with this issue, that maybe they are not so foolish after all, but willing accomplices in worldly ways!

If that is the case, then I’m going about this all wrong. These leaders stand in possible jeopardy of the consequence Christ gave for “misleading these little ones” so I simply cannot be angry with them for fear of their possible punishment. I’d prefer to think they are ignorant than “spiritually criminal.”

Chances are, they stand to pay a much higher price than the girls they kicked out.

Lord have mercy on their souls.

Alan

 

[johnnykins]

Note to Catholic leaders who do not believe parents will sue for tossing pregnant daughter out of Catholic School - You used to think Catholics wouldn’t sue the Church, or go to the press, for child molestation either - Wake Up. Be responsible. Live what you say you believe. Integrity!! It’s important.

 

[Ruthie]

Alan said, “I’ve been going off as if they were fools, blind to their own ignorant ways. It never even occurred to me after years of grappling with this issue, that maybe they are not so foolish after all, but willing accomplices in worldly ways!”

Now I have a mental picture - Alan carrying a huge, round stone with a hole in the middle, and a rope through the hole.

He slams it down on the Administrator’s desk, and says, “Here’s your millstone - you’re going to need it.”

Read Mark 9:42 for the reference…

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Ruthie:

Alan said, “I’ve been going off as if they were fools, blind to their own ignorant ways. It never even occurred to me after years of grappling with this issue, that maybe they are not so foolish after all, but willing accomplices in worldly ways!”

Now I have a mental picture - Alan carrying a huge, round stone with a hole in the middle, and a rope through the hole.

He slams it down on the Administrator’s desk, and says, “Here’s your millstone - you’re going to need it.”

Read Mark 9:42 for the reference…

That’s exactly what I’m talking about.

I have personal friends who are in high school administration who cannot seem to grasp these sorts of things. If I thought they would get the point by hefting a boulder onto their desks, I would do it and then pay for the damages to the desk. I won’t, because I’ve explained as much verbally and it’s only gotten me hurt. It makes me feel pretty helpless.

The world really is a pretty sad place – no refuge for “certain” selected sinners even among brother and sister Catholics… :crying:

Alan

 

[Kay_Cee]

If a school lays out its policy concerning pregnant students and parents sign a contract saying they and their child agree to abide by the school’s policies, I hardly see how the school can be blamed for enforcing that policy.

The Church has to walk a fine line here. The Church cannot condone sex outside of marriage, period. It also cannot condone abortion.

What bothers me most about these posts is the automatic assumption that if a student is asked to continue her studies at home, she is being punished. In the situation I described in post #15, I don’t know of anyone who considered the student working at home a punishment, including the girl in question.

 

[MariU]

Repley to Post #31 from Aria13
Just one little thing though: Planned Parenthood does NOT immediately discuss abortion. They do discuss first the life options. They also have abstinence as their first line of preventative contraception for teens! They will go through all options of live birth, adoption before they discuss abortion. If the girl/woman still wants an abortion they will discuss it, and give her things to read, a counselor to talk to, and make her take TIME before she makes this FINAL decision. Granted Planned Parenthood can differ from place to place, but those that I’ve spoken to don’t think abortion should be used as a form of birth control either. Most people see the fetus as a life also. Why did I speak to them? Because I was a youth director, and the Youth Directors in the churches in my community taught sex ed. in the PUBLIC SCHOOLS!! We couldn’t teach scripture, BUT we were allowed to discuss the Christian perspective of sex. Pretty amazing school district to allow this. Oh, and the churches represented: 2 Baptist, 2 Lutheran, Catholic, and Presbyterian. The kids thought we were pretty cool…and we had a great time!

---

I’m new to this but I have to disagree to Aria13 regarding Planned Parenthood. When I was 16 I became pregnant and found out at Planned Parenthood. Their 1st response was that I could have an abortion. I had to insist that this was not an option for me. I may be a sinner but knew enough about my faith and the life of my baby not to go down that path. Thanks to my Catholic school , my parents and the film “The Silent Scream” for that. Planned Parenthood does not believe in life. And I disagree with calling a unborn baby a fetus. I hate hearing that term. It just makes it easier for people to disassociate themselves from the baby. A big part of our problem in this world is the language we use to try to make something appear to be something it is not.

On a different note. I do not believe a girl should be forced out of her Catholic school due to becoming pregnant. I was unable to continue my education in a Catholic school partly because I had morning sickness for the entire pregnancy. Therefore, I attended a special public school for pregnant girls. I only wish that there was a Catholic school that helped pregnant girls though the situation. I did feel very judged during the pregnancy and was treated poorly by some of the Catholic students. This and other hipocrasy that I witness caused me to leave the Catholic church for a number of years.

I wish people would reach out more to girls in this situation. Yes I know it is a sin. But there are a lot of people who are sinning in secret and then throwing stones at people whose sin is more obvious.

I’m sure glad Jesus stopped the group that wanted to stone the prostitute to death. I place my hope in him. He knows the heart of the girls that are unmarried and pregnant. He knows what they have been through that leads them into that situation. If we could just show a little compassion we would help everybody so much more. We need to be honest with them in love.

Thanks.

 

[Princess_Abby]

MariU:

Repley to Post #31 from Aria13
Just one little thing though: Planned Parenthood does NOT immediately discuss abortion. They do discuss first the life options. They also have abstinence as their first line of preventative contraception for teens! They will go through all options of live birth, adoption before they discuss abortion. .

If you call Planned Parenthood, you get a voice-automated system. All you have to do is push #3 to schedule an abortion. I know this because a co-worker was re-filling her prescription for birth control pills, on speaker phone, and I was appalled at what I was hearing. If she was a young, frightened teen mom, I could easily see the impulsive temptation to press #3 and schedule an abortion immediately.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

MariU:

I wish people would reach out more to girls in this situation. Yes I know it is a sin. But there are a lot of people who are sinning in secret and then throwing stones at people whose sin is more obvious.

Exactly. If they had only, I don’t know … murdered somebody they would never have gotten caught. Oh wait, that would have been one of their options, with no ramifications.

I’m sure glad Jesus stopped the group that wanted to stone the prostitute to death. I place my hope in him. He knows the heart of the girls that are unmarried and pregnant. He knows what they have been through that leads them into that situation. If we could just show a little compassion we would help everybody so much more. We need to be honest with them in love.

Yes, but that requires that we embrace the Good News in some way other than to pick and choose certain snippets out of context, used to fuel our pre-Christ tendencies toward judging and condemning one another. It’s all prophecy but that doesn’t make it any more pleasant. Lord only knows how many Christians around the world right now are persecuting one of Christ’s little ones in His name. It is no wonder people can look toward Christians but can’t seem to make out the “Christ” part.

Alan

 

[CARose]

I wish I had the resources to start a crisis pregnancy center. There is office space available directly across from the Planned Parenthood offices here. They’re located in the closest office space to our local High School and we have one of the highest Teen Pregnancy rates in the state (and I think CA may have one of the higher rates in the country, but I don’t know this for certain).

Aria13, I think it’s sad that you honestly believe that Planned Parenthood offers Life options as the first approach. It may be that you spoke with a particular counselor who, knowing your Lutheran background and position with youth, shared with you the “best case scenario” of how a pregnancy is handled, but I know that this is not always the case, and I believe it is not even the case in a significant number of the pregnancies they counsel, let alone in a majority of the cases.

And even if they did first offer “Life” as an option, what support systems do they have in place for these girls? What portion of their budget do they spend on providing “life support” as opposed to “death”? OK, what amount of money do they spend (or get in government grants, etc) for per girl who choses life, vs. each girl who chooses death? This would show how effective their offer of life is, how real their commitment to choice is. I believe, based on evidence, that even if they were to offer a Life option, that they wouldn’t put a lot of energy into helping the scared pregnant young woman realize that they are strong enough to handle the challenges that explaining their pregnancy will present.

It’s also interesting to learn that my comment regarding asking that the boy’s name be disclosed brought up images of the grand inquisition or a ruler enforced interrogation. I said that perhaps she should be required to give the fathers name. And that if required, the consequence would be not staying in school, not an interrogation forcing the information out of her. It would give her the opportunity to begin communicating with honesty about the situation that resulted in the pregnancy.

I also suggested that perhaps she give talks, but acknowledged that she might not be ready to do this for some time (as in years later, as there might be real residual shame she’s dealing with, which should not be imposed or encouraged.) Support the girl in making good choices after having first made a bad one, help build her up emotionally and spiritually to the mother she has become, even if she doesn’t keep the child.

I do think that the young man should be expected to take some responsibility for the situation (if in fact it is a young man, which statistically isn’t the most likely scenario).

In the event the girl became pregnant by someone who is over 18, or even more disturbing, significantly over 18, related, or through abuse or force, this should be dealt with appropriately. Ignoring these realities or simply documenting their frequency is doing nothing to stop this exploitation of young women in America. The sad thing is, with many of these cases, the young women don’t even realize they’ve been exploited until much later when they reflect back on just how inappropriate certain situations were.

I think that I like the post which suggests that the Chaplin handle the situation on a case by case basis. I would hope that his guidelines require compassion balanced with justice for all the parties involved. The ultimate good of all parties should be the desired outcome. Attending a Catholic school with ongoing defiance against the moral teachings of the church would not be in the best interests of anyone involved, whereas repentance and a commitment to living a chaste life while moving forward on a Catholic education would show everyone the value of life.

Kay Cee, you comment that the school has laid out their guidelines, therefore what are the grounds for complaining? Just because guidelines are published doesn’t make them fair or appropriate. I think this thread is suggesting that such an approach has ramifications that are not consistant with the Christian values we claim.

CARose

 

[CARose]

Well, this thread really got me thinking about the idea of a crisis pregnancy center and our local teen pregnancy rate, so I got out the phone book and looked to see what we have available. I called the number listed in the phone book under abortion alternatives and had a nice long conversation with the woman who answered.

Apparently, the closest option to Planned Parenthood for girls in our area is an hour drive away. If they want life, they need to be willing to really work for it, or go it alone. Mind you, the local school district has a seperate school for girls who are pregnant or young mothers, where they and their babies get care and support, but helping her make that decision, if she doesn’t know where to turn, there isn’t a number to call in the phone book, we don’t have a local crisis pregnancy center to help her make the right choice.

What I’ve learned is that a crisis pregnancy center can be started with relatively few resources. The woman I spoke with says that she handles approximately 6 - 12 calls / month. She has the office phone forwarded to her cell phone when she’s away from the office. They don’t take drop-ins because there isn’t sufficient demand to have set hours, but she takes calls on her phone at all hours of the day. They get a small amount of support from 3 - 6 of the local churches each month and their office space is donated by the local Presbyterian Church. The annual fundraiser only brings in $8K dollars, so they don’t have exhorbitant expenses. They have recently affiliated with Care Net and are looking forward to training that they will be given in April. This crisis pregnancy center has been in operation since 1985 in this small condition, but babies have been saved. She also does programs in the school, teaching the importance of Chastity (actually she refers to it as Abstinence, I know they’re different) and the reality of life beginning at conception and that abstinence is the only safe approach to STD’s.

I know it’s a tangent from this thread, but I thought you guys might be interested to learn how little it takes to start a small crisis pregnancy center to serve a small town, where girls face the same challenges as girls in larger communities.

CARose

 

[AngelicDoctor]

PS:

I asked the faculty member who gave me the pro-life survey to administer in my class. He told me that the question was whether the students agree or not with such a policy (girl pregnant = removed from school until delivery). The actual policy of the school, he told me, is that the matter is decided on a case-by-case basis.

(What criteria they use, I do not know?). I have asked other teachers and, apparently, they do not even recall (going many years) the incidence of a pregnant girl in the HS either remaning in or being asked to leave.
I have to admit that I do not know much about this policy (I have other things on my mind–like managing/grading/trying to evangelize 100 sophomores many of whom are either indifferent to or hostile to their Catholic faith).

However, I think this made for a good discussion. Just FYI: ** I was nowhere advocating the policy of kicking out a preganant student**. I know, however, that Catholic schools have varied positions on this topic and I wanted to know what might be the reasons behind those policies.
I am sorry if I “saddened” or “schocked” anybody by bringing up a question (I only did so because my students asked about it). This is apparently a real emotional subject judging from some of the perhaps over dramatic posts (shunning and throwing someone into a fiery pit?)… many of which took on a life of their own (meaning: perhaps they read motives/attitudes into my post or the school that are not really there).

(at least, I do not remember beginning my post with a request to excommunicate anyone.)

I will make one more PS: it is perhaps understandable if a work place has to make accomodations for an employee who becomes pregnant, or if an employee is hanidcapped (such as installing an elevator–my school does not have one). [my point, again, was that that employee still will have to be out of work on leave for some time–same thing with a student, their educatio nwill be interrupted regardless–even studying at home is not the same thing as being in class]. However, do you install an elevator for a pregnant highschool kid (who, a school should not necessarily expect to be a normal possibility IN THE SAME WAY that you would expect your adult female employees to become pregnant). Maybe the right thing would be to build an elevator for a pregnant girl. I don’t know. Maybe my school was built in a time when 16 year old kids did not get pregnant. Maybe they SHOULD adjust to the new reality, however. I was never saying you should judgmentally shun someone for an unwed pregnancy. However, serious adjustments would have to be made to meet her new needs… what adjustments are appopriate. Just food for thought. Perhaps post 15 is a good solution.

 

[AngelicDoctor]

One more point:
Perhaps the best defense of the pro-life attitude (and to prevent pushing a child to ‘wipe away a mistake’ via abortion) is to allow such a pregant student to remain in school.

I will say this (and, I do not mean to be cynical, because as Christians we must have the virtue of hope, but I must also be realistic…):

Whether the pregnant girl is visible or not, a huge chunk of our “Catholic” students in Catholic HS do not adhere to the Church’s beautiful teaching on the gift of sexuality. Is part of the reason for this their age and hormones–sure. However, when we talk about chastity or basics of the theology of the body in school many of them buck and rage. I think that many (NOT all) of them have already bought into the culture’s view of sex (completely stipping it of any remnant of the sacred) hook line and sinker. What is the big discussion before class begins?–this or that MTV show. Watch a dating show on MTV just to see how badly these young boys and girls debase themselves. It would shock you.

Pregnant girl in school or not… the next challenge that is posed for Catholic schools is to re-teach children the true meaning of human sexuality. Until that happens, they will be buying into the culture of death and the destruction of authentic human genital love (contraception, abortion, premarital sex, etc.) regardless of what lessons they learn from HS policies. (Though, I agree, the HS has to have policies that affirm life).

 

[Kay_Cee]

Kay Cee, you comment that the school has laid out their guidelines, therefore what are the grounds for complaining? Just because guidelines are published doesn’t make them fair or appropriate. I think this thread is suggesting that such an approach has ramifications that are not consistant with the Christian values we claim.

CARose

Then why on earth sign a *contract *agreeing to abide by those rules?
If you think they are unfair and unchristian, why agree to follow them?

Reread my post. I never said that the school just published the guidelines. I said that the parents and student sign a contract agreeing to abide by them. To do this, then go back on your word sounds unchristian to me.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Kay Cee:

Then why on earth sign a *contract *agreeing to abide by those rules?
If you think they are unfair and unchristian, why agree to follow them?

Reread my post. I never said that the school just published the guidelines. I said that the parents and student sign a contract agreeing to abide by them. To do this, then go back on your word sounds unchristian to me.

How many people even know, much less agree, to every detail of every rule before they sign their children into Catholic high school? Plus, most parents probably don’t seriously consider that possibility so they probably didn’t ask. The simple fact is these days very few people read anything before they sign it, and everybody, including the lawyers, know that. If they had a statement in bold print right next to the signature and required a person calling it to their attention, “if your daughter comes up pregnant we will kick her out” it still wouldn’t do any good because there is “safety” in numbers. People go in like so many cattle and sign those things, because not doing so makes them stand out and/or in denial of giving their daughter a Catholic education.

Sorry, but the fact that a parent signs up to the rules does not change the fact that in practice, the rules employ a strategy exactly opposite one that promotes life choices, nor does it excuse administrators for establishing and adhering to such policies which cause death to children – of course they don’t personally pay the abortionists or even know of the abortion, so their hands are clean – not.

Also, what are parents supposed to do, shop around for a Catholic school that has different terms? In our diocese there are about 85 parishes, but two Catholic high schools. Essentially it’s a monopoly – take it or leave it. Parents have the choice of signing whatever paper the school waves in front of them or eeeverybody knows they decided to take so-and-so out of the school and it becomes a big scandal and wonder.

Alan

 

[Kay_Cee]

Alan, please read my post (#15). I never advocated kicking pregnant girls out of school.

I still say you should not agree to abide by a contract and then go back on your word. It is not the school’s fault if you do not bother to read the contract. If you have a problem with the school’s policy, you should say so before signing.

What is the point of having a contract if it means nothing? What is the school supposed to do–abide by different rules for different students, according to what their parents demand? How fair is that?

In the school where I worked, one of the policies was that students caught with drugs and/or alcohol were expelled. The parents signed a contract stating that they understood that policy and agreed to abide by it. But then, when some students were expelled under that policy, the parents threatened to sue. That to me is going back on your word. A Christian should stand by his word. His yes should mean yes and his no should mean no.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Kay Cee:

Alan, please read my post (#15). I never advocated kicking pregnant girls out of school.

I’m sorry if it sounded like I implied such. I suppose I kinda use shotgun approach and blast everything in sight or something, replying to you but speaking to everyone else at the same time. I can certainly see how I might have come across that way.

I still say you should not agree to abide by a contract and then go back on your word. It is not the school’s fault if you do not bother to read the contract. If you have a problem with the school’s policy, you should say so before signing.

You are right, and technically I completely agree with you.

It is only recently I’ve started to take an approach that is, let’s say, “expanded” compared to it.

When they sign, that’s their consent. It is not the school’s fault as you say, in that the parents’ wishes are not obeyed against their signed contract.

What is the school’s fault is the implementation of a policy which is contrary to life and Catholic unity, and casts its children off, abandoning them at what might be their greatest time of need. The fact that the parents have no legal (and as I think your point is, moral) recourse does not make it OK for the school to do that. As I understand what you wrote, we are not in conflict.

What is the point of having a contract if it means nothing? What is the school supposed to do–abide by different rules for different students, according to what their parents demand? How fair is that?

Good questions. I’m not advocating the school selectively enforces its policy, which I believe addresses your concern. I’m advocating the school abolishes its policy so they don’t trap themselves into doing evil.

In the school where I worked, one of the policies was that students caught with drugs and/or alcohol were expelled. The parents signed a contract stating that they understood that policy and agreed to abide by it. But then, when some students were expelled under that policy, the parents threatened to sue. That to me is going back on your word. A Christian should stand by his word. His yes should mean yes and his no should mean no.

Agreed. Buyer beware.

Alan

 

[Kay_Cee]

Alan:

It seems we are more in agreement than I thought.

I agree that no school should have a policy that tempts a girl to have an abortion.

Schools really have to walk such a fine line here. They cannot treat out-of-wedlock pregnancy as though it is OK. Doing that may encourage more out-of-wedlock pregnancies (which could also lead to more abortions). There is also the possibility of shame in that a girl who is obviously pregnant at school has no choice but to show everybody, publicly, that she has sinned.

That’s why I think schooling at home for the duration of the pregnancy is a good idea. That way she is allowed to continue her education (something she’s going to need more than ever).

Although schooling at home is not as good as attending school, it’s not as bad as you might think. My own daughter was in such a situation last year (not due to pregnancy but to major surgery). She was in the hospital five days, then had two weeks at home, then three weeks in which she was allowed to attend only half a day (we alternated going mornings and afternoons). She ended up one of the top 10 kids in her class with a GPA of 4.83.

A school has to hate the sin but love the sinner–as do we all.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Kay Cee:

That’s why I think schooling at home for the duration of the pregnancy is a good idea. That way she is allowed to continue her education (something she’s going to need more than ever).

I think it’s a good idea in some cases as well, especially if she has a problem with sickness or with getting around.

I say “in some cases” because not all families have the resources (financial and capability-wise) to do it well. One project I’m planning to resume next week, however may change that. Self-serving ad: I plan to provide education in at least math, for free, on the web, in such a way as to directly compete with what is done for gazillions of tax dollars now. I have already conducted several thousand trial runs of some simple math software in All Saints School on grades 2-5, and my own children have benefitted, so if I give up right now it has been productive. My ultimate goal is to go from counting to Algebra, and the best case is to undermine the economics of math education in the country to force “real” reform. I figure if I can give them for free a product at least as effective for average students than what they get in school, maybe the schools will start figuring out how to embrace technology rather than use it as an excuse to raise spending. (note: if others are interested and able, I can work with them to expand this to other topics.) Part of what I’m doing is trying to empower home-schoolers and supplement kids in school who need extra help.

Although schooling at home is not as good as attending school, it’s not as bad as you might think. My own daughter was in such a situation last year (not due to pregnancy but to major surgery). She was in the hospital five days, then had two weeks at home, then three weeks in which she was allowed to attend only half a day (we alternated going mornings and afternoons). She ended up one of the top 10 kids in her class with a GPA of 4.83.

A school has to hate the sin but love the sinner–as do we all.

We home-schooled three of our children a couple years ago, and it was really nice – for several reasons we ended up putting them back though.

For individual children, I agree home schooling could be a good solution. I still don’t think the school’s policy is one that promote pro-life behavior. I doubt such public shows of discipline against pregnant girls does anything to promote chastity – if so, only in a very small way compared to its promoting birth control and abortion.

Alan

 

[Kay_Cee]

AlanFromWichita:

I doubt such public shows of discipline against pregnant girls does anything to promote chastity – if so, only in a very small way compared to its promoting birth control and abortion.

Alan

For some reason, you still seem to think this is a punishment. I can tell you that in the school where I taught it was never seen as that.

Imagine a man who has cheated on his wife–and everybody knows he has cheated. Now imagine that same man is forced to wear a placard saying “I am an adulterer” everywhere he goes.

That’s something of what it’s like for a pregnant girl at school.

The school does not abandon the girl. The teachers still work with her. Assignments are sent home. Homework is brought back to the school. In a day when we have resources like email, having class at home is not that difficult, although it is a lot of extra work for the teachers (It does take time to write out the lesson plan, answer any questions the student might have, etc.). Unless you’ve been in a situation where you have over 100 students a day, you have no idea how much work it is to drop everything to take care of one kid–and do this every day. I’m very grateful to my daughter’s teachers who were willing to put in so much extra time just for her.

It’s difficult for me to construe this as the school imposing a punishment, especially when the teachers are going so far out of their way to be accomodating.

If you think keeping pregnant girls at home does nothing to promote chastity, maybe you would like to know what happens when the school allows them to attend class, as is the case at my daughter’s public high school. This school has *two *day care centers, with plans to build a *third. *This certainly does nothing to promote chastity (Well, it must be okay, since the school will help take care of my baby if I get pregnant).

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Kay Cee:

For some reason, you still seem to think this is a punishment. I can tell you that in the school where I taught it was never seen as that.

That is very good to hear.

Imagine a man who has cheated on his wife–and everybody knows he has cheated. Now imagine that same man is forced to wear a placard saying “I am an adulterer” everywhere he goes.

That’s something of what it’s like for a pregnant girl at school.

That may be true, but I would think she and her parents and priest would be in the best position to determine, on an individual basis, whether that is better for her than alternatives.

The school does not abandon the girl. The teachers still work with her. Assignments are sent home. Homework is brought back to the school. In a day when we have resources like email, having class at home is not that difficult, although it is a lot of extra work for the teachers (It does take time to write out the lesson plan, answer any questions the student might have, etc.). Unless you’ve been in a situation where you have over 100 students a day, you have no idea how much work it is to drop everything to take care of one kid–and do this every day. I’m very grateful to my daughter’s teachers who were willing to put in so much extra time just for her.

It’s difficult for me to construe this as the school imposing a punishment, especially when the teachers are going so far out of their way to be accomodating.

You are right. I’ve taught Algebra to nearly that many students in three classes, at two schools, at the same time. This is not an easy thing, and from the way you describe it your school has an admirable view toward the issue compared to certain others I’ve known. This is all good stuff, but I wonder how typical it is.

If you think keeping pregnant girls at home does nothing to promote chastity, maybe you would like to know what happens when the school allows them to attend class, as is the case at my daughter’s public high school. This school has *two *day care centers, with plans to build a *third. *This certainly does nothing to promote chastity (Well, it must be okay, since the school will help take care of my baby if I get pregnant).

It may do something to promote chastity, but I think if it could be quantified the “message sent” aspect of such does extremely little.

The other side of the equation, based on the story you just told, is to wonder how many babies would there be for a day care center in the Catholic schools if pregnant women weren’t penalized for continuing their pregnancy? Based on this evidence, there is no way to tell if chastity is what is actually promoted. It’s not a pretty picture, but it doesn’t exactly p(name removed by moderator)oint the mechanics of the situation.

I’m not trying to make absolute statements about what is effective on each and every person. When a school adopts a blanket policy involving kicking children out of school (your own school being an exception I suspect) then it is doing so. With such a policy, there is no choice involved. Rules make things simple so we don’t have to deal with people on an individual basis.

Alan

edit>> on the issue of it being about punishment or perhaps even “logical consequences” I certainly do most people see it as that – an intent to tell others, “don’t you try this.” If it were to help the girl save face, one would expect she could choose not to.

edit again>> come to think of it, I think I can embrace what you are saying by adding the caveat that it may actually be in any given girl’s best interest to study at home. I certainly do not deny that – especially if it is the girl’s choice so others don’t “blame the school for kicking her out.”