"Catholic social teaching finds Church teaching lacking." by Bishop Dowling

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The National Catholic Reporter is rather. . .um. . .pointedly advocative of one particular aspect of Catholic teaching,–‘social justice’-- sometimes to the diminution, distortion, and outright disappearance of all the other Catholic teachings.
 
The National Catholic Reporter is rather. . .um. . .pointedly advocative of one particular aspect of Catholic teaching,–‘social justice’-- sometimes to the diminution, distortion, and outright disappearance of all the other Catholic teachings.
Thank you for sharing your opinion of the NCR. Did you read the article. What do you think of that?
 
The National Catholic Reporter is rather. . .um. . .pointedly advocative of one particular aspect of Catholic teaching,–‘social justice’-- sometimes to the diminution, distortion, and outright disappearance of all the other Catholic teachings.
:hmmm: Social justice was afterall a particularly large aspect of Christ’s teachings along with love and peace. NCR must be mimicking Christ’s emphasis on social justice then, Tantum. He taught us a way on how to express our love for Him in righteousness in Matt 25:35-46. Basically He said if you are attentive to the social justice issues, you serve Him and shall have eternal life. 🤷 Those folks at NCR must be in good shape! 👍 Peace.
 
Thank you for sharing your opinion of the NCR. Did you read the article. What do you think of that?
Hey now, they were just pointing out that the NCR regularly spins articles to fit their own view point, which does not always match up with Church teachings.

I did read the article, and it looks like that is exactly what’s happening here. It claims that priestly celibacy and the ordination of women are wide open for discussion and laments the fact that the Vatican dares to give out orders to the faithful. It says that the Vatican is afraid to let people think for themselves, and says that it should allow individuals and parishes to do and believe what they want. He says he does not like that the Vatican is powerful enough to tell the Church what it believes.

The basic message of this piece is that the author thinks the Vatican is too “conservative,” and the author resents the fact that the Church is not open to changing its mind on things and becoming more secular and liberal. He does not understand that the Church does not follow the whims of the world, but God.
 
:hmmm: Social justice was afterall a particularly large aspect of Christ’s teachings along with love and peace. NCR must be mimicking Christ’s emphasis on social justice then, Tantum. He taught us a way on how to express our love for Him in righteousness in Matt 25:35-46. Basically He said if you are attentive to the social justice issues, you serve Him and shall have eternal life. 🤷 Those folks at NCR must be in good shape! 👍 Peace.
To quote the Hokey Pokey, “and that’s what it’s all about.”
 
Hey now, they were just pointing out that the NCR regularly spins articles to fit their own view point, which does not always match up with Church teachings.

I did read the article, and it looks like that is exactly what’s happening here. It claims that priestly celibacy and the ordination of women are wide open for discussion and laments the fact that the Vatican dares to give out orders to the faithful. It says that the Vatican is afraid to let people think for themselves, and says that it should allow individuals and parishes to do and believe what they want. He says he does not like that the Vatican is powerful enough to tell the Church what it believes.

The basic message of this piece is that the author thinks the Vatican is too “conservative,” and the author resents the fact that the Church is not open to changing its mind on things and becoming more secular and liberal. He does not understand that the Church does not follow the whims of the world, but God.
That’s one wayof looking at it. It is not the only way according to the bishop. I disagree with your whole last paragraph.
 
This whole article is full of holes.
it seems to me that this is also a symbol of what has been happening in the church especially since pope John Paul II became the Bishop of Rome and up till today – and that is “restorationism,” the carefully planned dismantling of the theology, ecclesiology, pastoral vision, indeed the “opening of the windows” of Vatican II – in order to “restore” a previous, or more controllable model of church through an increasingly centralized power structure; a structure which now controls everything in the life of the church through a network of Vatican congregations led by cardinals who ensure strict compliance with what is deemed by them to be “orthodox.” Those who do not comply face censure and punishment, e.g. theologians who are forbidden to teach in Catholic faculties.
In other words, he’s disputing a hierarchical Church as founded by Christ Himself and the Primacy of Peter. Further, if the bishops (cardinals) are not united with the Pope, they have no authority.

Most glaringly, he keeps referring to Vat II as ecumenical, which it was not; it was pastoral (according to two popes.).
Pope Benedict XVI (while Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger) clearly stated the nature of the Second Vatican Council was pastoral, as the council defined no doctrine infallibly, and sought to maintain a lower profile than previous ecumenical councils…
The Second Vatican Council has not been treated as a part of the entire living Tradition of the Church, but as an end of Tradition, a new start from zero. The truth is that this particular council defined no dogma at all, and deliberately chose to remain on a modest level, as a merely pastoral council; and yet many treat it as though it had made itself into a sort of superdogma which takes away the importance of all the rest.
Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict XVI
given July 13, 1988, in Santiago, Chile
In view of the pastoral nature of the Council, it avoided any extraordinary statements of dogmas endowed with the note of infallibility, but it still provided its teaching with the authority of the Ordinary Magisterium which must be accepted with docility according to the mind of the Council concerning the nature and aims of each document.
Pope Paul VI
General Audience, 12 January 1966
 
This whole article is full of holes.

In other words, he’s disputing a hierarchical Church as founded by Christ Himself and the Primacy of Peter. Further, if the bishops (cardinals) are not united with the Pope, they have no authority.

Most glaringly, he keeps referring to Vat II as ecumenical, which it was not; it was pastoral (according to two popes.).
Why is called the second ecumenical council then?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Vatican_Council
 
What is the value of youth drawn to the Church because the Church conforms to the values of the youth? We must return to the concept that the Church is an apostolic, reverent, stable, traditional source of Christ’s teaching not some religion that teaches what we want to hear and allows all manner of liturgical excess in the name of evangelization.
 
What is the value of youth drawn to the Church because the Church conforms to the values of the youth? We must return to the concept that the Church is an apostolic, reverent, stable, traditional source of Christ’s teaching not some religion that teaches what we want to hear and allows all manner of liturgical excess in the name of evangelization.
Who is advocating this?
 
Did we read the same article? This article sounds to me like the typical relativistic and social justice tripe that has infected the Church over the past couple of decades.
Gee, what’s this bishop thinking when he wants to practice the humble teachings of Jesus?
 
Hmm, the bishop is in serious need of our prayers. I do not doubt he is being sincere, but he could facilitate scandal quite easily with proclamations like that. Let’s hope and pray his audience could recognize that possibility and avoid it.

One needs not get past the first paragraph to see this. His whole comments on Vatican II are puzzling and could be completely misleading. As high level statements, John Paul and Benedict have been doing exactly as he seems to wish, to enable the points of Vatican II to come forth more clearly, not less. A lot of people since the Council have been using it as an excuse to advocate for their own distinctly extra-Catholic ideas, and as Catholics we should be proud that our Pontiffs are opening the windows or more aptly, keeping them open, to dispel that kind of misdirection and confusion. The highlighted “by them” overlooks that it is the job of all to be orthodox i.e., faithful, and that the Holy Spirit guides the Magisterium to do exactly this. It is one thing to teach the Faith and to admit “this is hard to understand, even for me”. It is another to teach heterodoxy as if it were orthodoxy. How is making this “forbidden” isn’t a bad thing? It is simply truth-in-advertising! Let’s be honest, this is what the real issues are about. If it were really something pastoral, something open to prudential judgment, then it would not have been described so cataclysmically, af two competing divisions of the Church, etc.

Nothing in the rest does not suggest that, or is even ambivalent. The final appeal to Ratzinger’s quote does not reflect a good catechesis. When the quote is seen in the context that is the job of the Magisterium (“official Church”) to inform consciences, indeed that the teachings of the Magisterium are the best ways to inform one’s conscience (always in conjunction with prayer), then one sees that the quote is really not applicable to the big things he seems concerned about. Perhaps on things like, should we spend money on 20 yards of red linen? one can argue against, but the rest of the article is misleading.

Other than anything authored by John Allen, I have always assumed anything from NCRep is not reliable enough to avoid at least covert attempts to introduce heterodoxy. I admit the possibility of exceptions, but this piece is certainly not one of them. With the Allen generalization in place, I would encourage the original poster to not use NCRep as a source (unless as potential examples of how the Evil One has had seeds planted into the minds of otherwise smart and well-meaning people) at the risk of being scandalized.
 
Gee, what’s this bishop thinking when he wants to practice the humble teachings of Jesus?
OK, where exactly did Jesus teach that we should subvert federal law in support of social justice? Where exactly did He say we could water down the commandments (He didn’t say please, he said shalt not) for example, administering communion to those publicly advocating abortion and birth control; what prompted the Church to suddenly allow lay people to handle the consecrated host; etc?
 
At some level, it matters little what Jesus would do, but more what He allows. Personally, I think the cappa magnum looks kind of silly and if I were a Cardinal, I would likely choose not to wear one, but where is the sin in the Cardinal wearing it. The Church allows it for processional/“in choir” dress.

Also, the Second Vatican Council was ecumenical, but not dogmatic. It was ecumenical and pastoral.

My problem with some of the people who fixate on ‘social justice’, is that it is almost like: well, as long as we are helping the less fortunate, blah blah blah, we can do/believe whatever else we want. Want actively gay and female Priests? Go ahead. Want to ignore or downplay elements of Catholic doctrine? Sure, go ahead. I mean, who needs the Real Presence, obedience to ecclesiastical superiors, proper liturgy, etc. It seems like some (NOT ALL, MAYBE NOT EVEN MANY) of them would just as soon see the Catholic Church become a mere social/social service organization, say the Rotary Club or Red Cross with a bit more ceremony.
 
Also, many of the ‘Progressive Catholics’ who scream ‘social justice’ also seem to support things like abortion and euthanasia, which is disgusting.
 
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