Catholic social teaching supports basic income’s aim

[mythbuster1]

More than that, actually, since overtime generally pays at least 50% more than the regular rate.

 

[mythbuster1]

Some jobs have surge periods where they are much more busy than usual. In these cases, it makes sense to pay for overtime, rather than hiring a temporary employee to cover the busy period and then having to deal with training and later layoffs.

 

[Socrates92]

Yeah, I was trying to keep the numbers simple. In Ontario, the law for most industries is that overtime kicks in after 44hrs. So, 45hrs would be paid 45.5 normal hrs of work, meaning that a 12.5% increase becomes a 13.75% increase. Not a huge difference.

 

[phil19034]

I like Peter Grandich, who is often featured on the Drew Mariani Show on Relevant Radio

Home | Peter Grandich

 

[Ender]

Pretty well. People either made more for the same work or made the same for less work. A small percentage may have had to change plans but overall it was beneficial to the city.

I wonder how many people would have voted to raise the minimum wage had they known beforehand how it would turn out, or how many would think it was working “pretty well” to get these results.

“…we conclude that the second wage increase to $13 reduced hours worked in low-wage jobs by 6-7 percent, while hourly wages in such jobs increased by 3 percent. Consequently, total payroll for such jobs decreased, implying that the Ordinance lowered the amount paid to workers in low-wage jobs by an average of $74 per month per job in 2016.”

2015, i.e. the year Seattle housing prices rebounded to their already insane pre-recession levels and then kept climbing. Low wage workers are moving elsewhere.

“Low wage workers are moving elsewhere.” Another result typical of leftist economic policies. The poor, whom the left ostensibly want to help, are always the first to suffer.

“On net, the minimum wage increase from $9.47 to as much as $13 per hour raised earnings by an average of $8-$12 per week. The entirety of these gains accrued to workers with above-median experience at baseline; less-experienced workers saw no significant change to weekly pay. Approximately one-quarter of the earnings gains can be attributed to experienced workers making up for lost hours in Seattle with work outside the city limits.”

So less-experienced, low wage workers saw essentially no change in their salary, while a quarter of the earnings gained were by taking jobs outside of the city where the ordinance wasn’t in effect. It isn’t surprising they had to look for work elsewhere inasmuch as the creation of new, low-wage jobs in Seattle stalled as soon as the wage increase took effect.

Here are the results of the minimum wage increase: on net the take home pay of low-wage workers did not increase. Some workers who lost hours made up that loss by taking second jobs outside the city. The creation of new low-wage jobs in the city decreased, and - according to you - low-wage workers are leaving the city. If this is what passes for success one can only imagine what failure would look like (San Francisco perhaps?)

 

[Jimbo]

I see your point, and absolutely we have to fix the border. But I guess I see it as more of a thing that can be done simultaneously.

Also, I think that by reforming our immigration policy to make it relatively easy for those who want to come in and become citizens to come in and have skin in the game, you deflate the bubble of illegal immigration.

 

[phil19034]

I see your point, and absolutely we have to fix the border. But I guess I see it as more of a thing that can be done simultaneously.

Also, I think that by reforming our immigration policy to make it relatively easy for those who want to come in and become citizens to come in and have skin in the game, you deflate the bubble of illegal immigration.

If it can be done simultaneously, that’s cool. But I don’t think you can do amnesty until immigration is fixed.

 

[pnewton]

Might be this the reason America is overlooked as insignificant and not explicit mentioned in the Apocalypse?

Or maybe the Revelation is not a list of how the world will end. I sure wouldn’t base social theology on some pre-millennial literal reading of this book. Catholic social teaching has some element of globalism, according to Caritas in Veritate. While basic income might be a foolish and impractical means, the end, the care and dignity of the poor, is in line with what Jesus taught.

 

[Ender]

While basic income might be a foolish and impractical means, the end, the care and dignity of the poor, is in line with what Jesus taught.

Both supporting and opposing the basic income concept are in line with what Jesus taught so long as the reason for the position taken is concern for the poor.

 

[Anrakyr]

Likewise, stop assuming that most people don’t.

When you create a safety net you plan for the worst.

What is hyperbole, specifically?

Wage slashing. You assume workers and unions are going to just “allow” wages to be slashed like that?

“ Low wage workers are moving elsewhere .”

Ever heard of gentrification?

Both supporting and opposing the basic income concept are in line with what Jesus taught so long as the reason for the position taken is concern for the poor.

Sorry but anyone I met who opposes UBI does it for the poor. They argue that if it works it hurts everyone more then it helps. They argue that living paycheck to paycheck is self inflicted. You can’t solve poverty, “the poor will always be with you”.

This world is but a bus stop right? Why make it better?

 

[Socrates92]

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.) Socrates92:

What is hyperbole, specifically?

Hence my qualifier.

Wage slashing can still occur at wages substantially above min wage. This will also incentivize employees not to bother improving their skills and market value (as the compensation gap between skilled and unskilled will lessen as the skilled become prone to wage slashing). Of course, this wage slashing may be somewhat hidden, most likely in the way of foregone raises.

 

[Anrakyr]

Allow me an indulgence then for a moment.

Boss: “I would like to hire you for this computer security job.”
Guy: “Glad to hear, what are the rates?”
Boss: “30 an hr.”
Guy: “The Standard Rate 6 months ago was 40 PLUS projects.”
Boss: “We have streamlined our system and not as much is expected of you.”
Guy: “Sorry, I’ll pass.”

Now what?

 

[Theo520]

Allow me an indulgence then for a moment.

Now what?

Boss: “I would like to hire you for this computer security job.”
Guy: “Glad to hear, what are the rates?”
Boss: “30 an hr.”
Guy: “The Standard Rate 6 months ago was 40 PLUS projects.”
Boss: “We have bids in to outsource it to India for 25/hr, but I’d like to keep it inhouse. 30 is the best I can offer you. Do you want it?”
Guy: "Yea, I need to pay my mortgage, I’ll take it.”

There are many variations that lead to slashing middle class wages.

 

[Ender]

Sorry but anyone I met who opposes UBI does it for the poor. They argue that if it works it hurts everyone more then it helps. They argue that living paycheck to paycheck is self inflicted. You can’t solve poverty, “the poor will always be with you”.

This world is but a bus stop right? Why make it better?

This is what it always comes down to: “The people who oppose me are evil.” We are explicitly forbidden to judge what we cannot know about people, specifically their intentions. Simple charity also obliges us to think the best of others, which you have clearly failed to do. Your judgment is rash and uncharitable. That you can’t respond with an actual argument to support your position is a good indication that it is not as sound as you believe it to be.

 

[Anrakyr]

I’m just repeating what was said in this thread. I’m not judging, I’m witnessing.

 

[Theo520]

I’m just repeating what was said in this thread. I’m not judging, I’m witnessing.

THAT is a lame deflection. Take responsibility for your own posts.

 

[Loud-living-dogma]

Ender:

“ Low wage workers are moving elsewhere .”

Ever heard of gentrification?

Gentrification? Wow. You’re really living in la-la land:
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattl...eer-volume-of-trash-in-camps-overwhelms-them/

 

[AUGUSTINE1102]

That is not only an erroneous statement but is just ignorant. While we do have a discrepancy between income there are many, many factors that play into why that is. But, no where in the world can one ascend and move in and out of one’s economic class than in the USA. Like it or not, capitalism has made economic mobility possible. Socialist/communist societies one is basically stuck. Other, less developed nations there is basically a few lords and many peasants.

 

[Anrakyr]

But, no where in the world can one ascend and move in and out of one’s economic class than in the USA.

Do I need to point out every OTHER free nation on Earth that your statement is invalidated by?

America is not that special.

THAT is a lame deflection. Take responsibility for your own posts.

I do but you don’t seem to remember what’s been said so far. I’d quote it all but we have 3000 character limit.

So here is a tiny taste:

Gotta love it when laughably economically illiterate people try to explain how money works.

You could give everyone in poverty 10 million dollars and they’d all be broke again in less than a decade.

Most people are poor because they make choices that keep them poor.

Gentrification? Wow. You’re really living in la-la land:

Please, how does raising rent and utilities costs forcing out poor families only for companies to redevelop and sell to influent families have ANYTHING to do with homeless or trash piles?

 

[SeraficLeo]

Our poor are so rich they don’t feel they need to work these jobs.

That is rash presumption. Look at the types of brutal work people who can find employment only at Temp. Agencies do. Being a gardener or a maid by comparison with regular hours is the good life in comparison.

I think the most avoided type of work or labour is usually in sanitation for reasons everyone can understand. Yes, there are a few jobs/positions many Westerners would simply refuse to do because they can’t possibly see themselves being happy doing them. Jobs that are extremely demanding but extremely low paying are also avoided as they preclude any hope of a decent life even if someone resigns themselves to living alone and not having a family.

Full-employment should be a basic goal as it is one obvious way to maximize GDP, reduce the cost of living, reduce welfare demand (save the taxpayer money) and put pressure on wage growth as businesses expand to satisfy new and increasing markets. But we need to stop reducing human beings to soulless and mindless automatons in our economic theories and models, which both neoliberal and statist economic theories do.