Catholic social teaching supports basic income’s aim

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A rising tide lifts all boats. Minimum wage in the United States should be raised to $15 per hour. That would allow those who have a minimum wage job a chance to net $600 per 40-hour work week. Less taxes that is not a lot of money, but it would seem that the average person might be able to find shelter and food for that amount of money. 😐
 
Of course, if the kid is a white male, I probably am not going to get into trouble, because white males are not a protected class.
Straight, white, Christian/agnostic/atheist male, with no disabilities. Then discriminate away.
 
A rising tide lifts all boats.
Raising the minimum wage will not double my salary and make it a six figure salary because the minimum wage was doubled.
but it would seem that the average person might be able to find shelter and food for that amount of money. 😐
Sadly no. One of two things will happen. The first is that no one will be hiring those average people because they’re that – average. And since they’re going to be paying people $600, as you said, they don’t want average. They want great. They want as much as they can get for their money. So average guy isn’t hired. The second is that you then say that companies should then be forced to hire a certain number of people and that automating those jobs is now illegal. The price for everything will now skyrocket because those companies need to now get a higher profit to be able to pay their employees.

Finding affordable housing and food will be difficult when milk costs $10 a gallon.
 
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Have heard you arguments for years. This is why there are so many poor people living from paycheck to paycheck in this country.
The so-called one percent live high and mighty, while the people at the bottom have to scrap to get by.
 
Have heard you arguments for years.
Because that’s how economics works. Money doesn’t grow on trees, it has to come from somewhere. If you’re going to double the minimum wage, then companies then have to figure out how to earn enough money to account for this rise in cost. Which means the workers who milk the cows, make the plastic bottles, make the plastic, recycle the plastic, package the milk, transport the milk, stock the milk on shelves, fix the refrigerators in the grocery store to cool the milk, man the cash registers at the grocery store so customers can purchase the milk, all must now be paid at least $15 an hour. Their incense in salary must now be accounted for. And where does their money come from? From the profits each of their businesses make. So those businesses must all now raise the costs of their products. Not to mention that this now makes things worse for people like me, because as I said, I won’t be getting an increase in salary because the minimum wage was increased. You’ve now increased my cost of living and I don’t have the extra money to deal with it. So now the only people who can really deal with this is the 1% you deride.

An increase in minimum wage like you’re suggesting is not feasible and does not solve the problem of poverty.
 
Instead of government mandating a particular wage, would it not be better if a) our foreign trade agreements were more fair so all our manufacturing jobs don’t go overseas and b) we stopped illegal immigration.

Labor’s big problems in this country, it seems to me, is the love big companies have for poorly paid labor. Maybe our products would cost more if not made by slave labor, but I think we could all learn to live with that if it assured an abundance of living wage jobs.
 
Brevity man, brevity.
I am not going to read all of that malarky, your scripted.
Length of words does not make for a good argument.
This idea that some must suffer in poverty, so that others can have a great life is morally wrong. You can justify it however you want.
Jesus Christ told us that we should take care of everyone.
 
I am not going to read all of that malarky, your scripted.
Length of words does not make for a good argument.
And calling what I said malarkey due to its length and not its contents is also not a good argument. But if you want the TL;DR, then it’s this: The money for doubling the minimum wage will come from consumers by making goods more expensive. The middle class will not have a pay raise to deal with this. The only people who would be able to deal with it are the top 1%. Raising the minimum wage will not solve the problem of poverty.

JoeShlabotnik:
This idea that some must suffer in poverty, so that others can have a great life is morally wrong. You can justify it however you want.
Jesus Christ told us that we should take care of everyone.
Making a strawman of someone’s argument isn’t good form either. I never said nor argued people should suffer in poverty, nor did anyone here for that matter. I said, both in this post and the last one I made, that raising the minimum wage is not the solution for ending poverty. And it isn’t.
 
Brevity man, brevity.
I am not going to read all of that malarky, your scripted.
Length of words does not make for a good argument.
This idea that some must suffer in poverty, so that others can have a great life is morally wrong. You can justify it however you want.
Jesus Christ told us that we should take care of everyone.
Herein lies much of the problem today. No offense, but its apparent you have never run a business, but then again, nor have many of our elected officials who pass laws on businesses and don’t consider “unintended consequences.”

Fauken brought up important details that someone must figure out…its not malarky. They are right that when you raise the cost of labor, the money to pay them must come from somewhere.

Key point: If you raise the cost of labor too high, beyond the value the worker provides, businesses will automate or eliminate that worker. Then you don’t just have an underpaid worker, you have an out-of-work worker.
 
This idea that some must suffer in poverty, so that others can have a great life is morally wrong. You can justify it however you want.
Who in this thread is arguing for people to suffer in poverty? I would argue that arbitrary minimum wage laws that don’t take into account the role of the worker and the value they add to a company will put MORE people in poverty, by having their positions eliminated.
 
Luke 16:14-15: “The Pharisees, who loved money, heard all this and were sneering at Jesus. He said to them, “You are the ones who justify yourselves in the eyes of others, but God knows your *hearts. What people value highly is detestable in God’s sight.”

First Timothy 6:10: “For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.”
 
Help me out. Here is the CCC on a just wage:

2434 A just wage is the legitimate fruit of work. To refuse or withhold it can be a grave injustice. In determining fair pay both the needs and the contributions of each person must be taken into account. “Remuneration for work should guarantee man the opportunity to provide a dignified livelihood for himself and his family on the material, social, cultural and spiritual level, taking into account the role and the productivity of each, the state of the business, and the common good.” Agreement between the parties is not sufficient to justify morally the amount to be received in wages.

I see you referencing “needs” of the person, but not the “contributions”, “the role and productivity”, “the state of the business”, and “the common good”.

So a hypothetical for me to better understand your position. Lets say I own a small burger stand and I have two employees to flip burgers: one is a high school kid and the other a father of 10. Am I to pay the father of 10, approximately 10 times more than the high school kid? (or whatever is required to support a family of 12).
You provide an interesting hypothetical. The short answer is that not all jobs are suitable for all people and their financial circumstances. A father of ten needs to find a more substantial job than working at a burger shack.

This said, there are parts of this country where people are happy just to get any job they can. Anything is better than nothing. I recently bought a Sunday newspaper while traveling, in Huntington, West Virginia, once a vibrant, bustling industrial city on the very southern fringes of the Rust Belt. Just out of curiosity, I turned to the classified ads. There were five jobs listed. Five. That’s all.

That is sad.
 

Deuteronomy 24:14–15​

14 “You shall not oppress a hired worker who is poor and needy, whether he is one of your brothers or one of the sojourners who are in your land within your towns.
15 You shall give him his wages on the same day, before the sun sets (for he is poor and counts on it), lest he cry against you to the Lord, and you be guilty of sin.
 
Luke 16:14-15: “The Pharisees, who loved money, heard all this and were sneering at Jesus. He said to them, “You are the ones who justify yourselves in the eyes of others, but God knows your *hearts. What people value highly is detestable in God’s sight.”

First Timothy 6:10: “For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.”
I agree with all this. My comments are not about love of money, they are about the reality of economics, which you seem to want to avoid discussing. Simply quoting Scripture may provide the overarching goals we want to accomplish, or the morality employed in achieving goals, but not the details needed to implement them.
 
This idea that some must suffer in poverty, so that others can have a great life is morally wrong.
What is wrong is the belief that if one person gets rich it must make another person poor. That’s absurd. If I provide a new product that lots of people want and are willing to purchase, I will make a lot of money, but who have I impoverished? Certainly not the people who bought my product; they willingly purchased it, and just as surely not the people who didn’t buy it since they are completely unaffected by its existence.

The gap between the very rich and the poor will continue to grow, but this is because there is a bottom below which one cannot go but there is no top. There is no limit to how rich someone can become even as the bottom for the poor is fixed. The only way to lessen the gap is to confiscate the wealth of the rich. That is, implement the policies of envy.
 
Minimum wage needs to be increased to at least $15 per hour. This would allow for those who make the least in the USA to be able to live without resorting to welfare.
 
14 “You shall not oppress a hired worker who is poor and needy, whether he is one of your brothers or one of the sojourners who are in your land within your towns.
15 You shall give him his wages on the same day, before the sun sets (for he is poor and counts on it) , lest he cry against you to the Lord, and you be guilty of sin.
No one is saying they shouldn’t be paid, so I don’t see how any of this is relevant.
 
This thread began with “Catholic social teaching supports basic income’s aim.” It was not about economics. The moral issue of paying people a living wage.
 
No, it about how much a person should be paid.
If they could, I know many employers would pay people less than the current minimum wage. And have no problems with doing that. Because that is the way it was before minimum wage was made a law.
 
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