Catholic social teaching supports basic income’s aim

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You and others seem to think that people should accept whatever an employer is willing to pay.
I believe that the only way to force employers to pay a living wage is to up minimum wage to $15.
Those businesses that do not want to pay $15 an hour, need only hire the employees they believe they can afford.
 
Do you then admit that policy would then prevent some employers from hiring staff?
 
That’s actually a fair idea that challenges the corporate executives who support UBI (because they want public government money to fund more consumers). Organizations of people who support UBI can join economic co-operatives funded by corporations.
 
You and others seem to think that people should accept whatever an employer is willing to pay.
No. The argument I’ve been making this whole time is that your suggestion is not feasible.
Those businesses that do not want to pay $15 an hour, need only hire the employees they believe they can afford.
So, now the minimum wage is $15 an hour, but the jobs to pay them that wage are extremely hard to get and employment goes down, since one person is now worth what two were. Now they can get $0 instead of $7.25. Which was a point I made earlier.
So I disagree with your assessment of things and that means I cannot be engaged in a conversation with you.
You insinuated that his/our position is the position that slave owners took before the Civil War. It’s about as absurd as saying animal rights supporters are Nazis because Hitler promoted the ethical treatment of animals. That’s not mere disagreement. Although, ironically, it’s yet another way to not support your argument.
 
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There is low employment now, but many work at low minimum wage jobs. There is no way to make a decent living on the current minimum wage.
They way to go would be to raise the current minimum wage to $15 per hour or maybe more.
Low unemployment means there are opportunities to find a higher paying job, or move into an actual career.

It’s a fallacy for you to think the Govt can architect a middle class income for everyone. Full employment is a fantastic deliverable compared to the alternative.
 
The reason it seems childish is that it’s predicated on the notion that human nature can and will change.
Not cause of the star trek thing? thanks for the pass.

However, they do change or we would not have gone from “follow Deuteronomy to the letter of go to hell but before that be rained on by frogs” To “The third council of the Vatican tribunals of …”
We don’t need to be told we reached a logical point we can guide ourselves based on the teaching left to us. Bound on earth, bound in heaven ect.

Otherwise, you eat any pork lately?
. Conquest has not ended, you just don’t see it in the safe little corner of the world you live in.
You don’t know my corner.
Greed, corruption, and war are immutable factors in a fallen world.
Not with that attitude.
UBI is indicative of an immature intellect that longs for a human paradise.
And your past two comments are indicative of a Catholic who thinks any improvement on earth is a waste of time. Unless you live in Amish farmland perhaps you shouldn’t speak.

Also, why are you on a computer? 😛
It is inherent laziness, and by that I mean it is an attempt to outsource charity to the state and absolve the individual from responsibility.
The world is changing, this is a social adaptation to the new age we live in. No one is advocating we do away with personal responsibility. Only that help is there for those who need it.

You do give money to people who need it right?
Eliminating class is not an imperative for anyone.
It is for me.
Unless oriented to Christ, humankind will always be unequal.
no offense but you don’t seem so ‘oriented in Christ.’ Someone who sees this world as a passing dream, a mere bus stop on their way to a better place doesn’t strike me as Christ-like.

He healed the sick and cared about the troubles of his time. He didn’t laugh at Lazarus and shrug saying “why worry? he’s with my dad.” He wept.

Have some compassion man.
 
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“The world is changing, this is a social adaptation to the new age we live in.”

I don’t live in an abstract changing world. The world I live in is strictly defined, as it is for my contemporaries. I pray that no one is deceived but the ‘spirit of the age’ is strong. I see it in action but I refuse to participate.
 
So I disagree with your assessment of things and that means I cannot be engaged in a conversation with you.
I love to discuss things with people who believe they know it all.
The one thing they always do is complain, if I do not agree with them, that I am not willing to engage in a reasonable conversation.
Its hard to determine what you actually disagree with when you won’t answer questions asked, or you answer questions not asked, or make absurd comparisons (i.e. your slavery comment). Friendly disagreement is good, acknowledging points made and still disagreeing is good too. Just making random statements and ignoring all points made…not good.

Peace
 
I support testing the Universal Basic Income in the United States. Put it in place in a dozen cities and see what happens over 2-3 years. The country can absolutely afford it and if it fails no harm, no foul. I have seen a convincing argument against an approach like that.
I’m an economic conservative, and I support this approach. Ideas that could possibly have major unforeseen and catastrophic consequences should be tested first. Cities should vary in size, demographics, etc. Then study the results and make a reasoned decision based on the facts.

I don’t support massive changes across the whole country blindly (like Obamacare).
 
“testing” is another way of saying “social engineering experiment.” The people who support this can get together, form a group, and try it on themselves.
 
The reason I would like things tested first, is that I’m pretty sure the results would be a failure (like Finland’s).

I would like to see socialism tested and fail on the local level, instead of being implemented on a national level and failing on a much larger scale.
 
I don’t live in an abstract changing world.
robots building cars instead of people is… Abstract? Do you think those robots aren’t going to replace other jobs? You already have self check out. How abstract is it really?
I see it in action but I refuse to participate.
Just making random statements and ignoring all points made…not good.
Agreed
Feel free to not participate at any time.
Have a nice day Ed.
The people who support this can get together, form a group, and try it on themselves.
We did where I lived, it was great.
The reason I would like things tested first is that I’m pretty sure the results would be a failure (like Finland’s).
Here in Ontario Canada, it was a resounding success. Three cities all picked to test, all improved.
so maybe it’s not the system but the implementation.
I would like to see socialism tested and fail on the local level, instead of being implemented on a national level and failing on a much larger scale.
When we are talking about socialism I’ll call you till then we are talking about UBI.
 
You’re comparing robots designed for simple tasks to self-checkout? Someone has to service those robots when they malfunction and quickly. Slowing down the line means money lost.
 
You’re comparing robots designed for simple tasks to self-checkout?
You still are not paying a 16 yr old kid to bag your groceries at 10 bucks an hour. Or a former inmate for that matter. You are paying the one mechanic and software engineer to come round once a week.

Our job market our society is changing, you don’t need blacksmiths to shoe the horse who was taught in a local smithy you get a mechanic to change your tires. Tires made in a factor with rubber from the other side of the world.

Stop being obtuse, UBI is meant to help us change with the adaptation of our market. Frankly, I’d like to live without it. I’d also like to live without needing to go to the hospital or dentist but you’d be hard pressed to find someone happy without when needed.
 
You should read some auto industry publications. When those robots stop working, someone needs to be there now. When that line stops, money is going out the window. Universal Basic Income is just Communism.
 
When we are talking about socialism I’ll call you till then we are talking about UBI.
This made me go back and check my definitions…yup, its not socialism. Lets call it wealth redistribution, or perhaps welfare.
 
Welfare exactly. Take from the rich and give to the poor. Still looks just like Communism.
Or Robin Hood.
 
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