Catholic Sociopaths

[opusAquinas]

There are many sociopaths. There are, I assume, Catholic sociopaths. My question is God knows there are Catholic sociopaths that cling to the confessional - it is their license to sin. So why does God permit this?

firstthings.com/article/2003/05/the-population-of-hell

I think hell is well populated but God permits some to sin to their hearts content?

 

[glendab]

There are lots of crazies in the world of all stripes and religions. Knowing a little about what makes a sociopath, I venture to say they rarely see a Confessional unless it is advantageous to some manipulative scheme. Try and find another way to satisfy your problem with folks who frequent the Sacrament of Confession. Making a generalized statement about us being sociopaths for going is not charitable.

Glenda

 

[opusAquinas]

God will never relent on the eternal punishment.

God’s justice has to be satisfied. This is what is meant by those God hate’s - they are vessels of God’s justice.

Lots of people sin left and right and run to the confessional. I think some are assuming there are many Catholics like this.

There is a hierarchy in heaven and hell.

I think there may be cases of some Catholics running around doing really evil things even conjuring demons for favors but they remain close to the sacraments so they don’t go to hell. Now God knows this… but why???

 

[anixx]

God will never relent on the eternal punishment.

God’s justice has to be satisfied. This is what is meant by those God hate’s - they are vessels of God’s justice.

Lots of people sin left and right and run to the confessional. I think some are assuming there are many Catholics like this.

There is a hierarchy in heaven and hell.

I think there may be cases of some Catholics running around doing really evil things even conjuring demons for favors but they remain close to the sacraments so they don’t go to hell. Now God knows this… but why???

If there is no contrition and a serious proposal to not sin again, then there is no forgiveness. When you go to Confession you must hold steadfast to not sinning again. If you go with the idea that I will sin again because God will forgive even the next time, then you are not serious about your sins. Forgiveness requires conversion of life, it’s not a vending machine.

 

[opusAquinas]

There are lots of crazies in the world of all stripes and religions. Knowing a little about what makes a sociopath, I venture to say they rarely see a Confessional unless it is advantageous to some manipulative scheme. Try and find another way to satisfy your problem with folks who frequent the Sacrament of Confession. Making a generalized statement about us being sociopaths for going is not charitable.

Glenda

Hi Glenda, I did not mean of course that only sociopaths go to confession but from my experience there are many people who scheme… schemers try to do the bare minimum… I can even remember from elementary school…

 

[opusAquinas]

If there is no contrition and a serious proposal to not sin again, then there is no forgiveness. When you go to Confession you must hold steadfast to not sinning again. If you go with the idea that I will sin again because God will forgive even the next time, then you are not serious about your sins. Forgiveness requires conversion of life, it’s not a vending machine.

I think they are forgiven from fear of hell alone. Absolution is absolution. *** If people thought like you no one should go to confession.***

The schemers know this is just talk.

Well, as this pious baloney kept me from confession for a long time.

 

[AussieTrish]

You can’t fool God.

If sinners rely on Confession as a license to sin they are committing the sin of presumption.

Sins against the First Commandment include presumption:

"2092 There are two kinds of presumption. Either man presumes upon his own capacities, (hoping to be able to save himself without help from on high), or he presumes upon God’s almighty power or his mercy (hoping to obtain his forgiveness without conversion and glory without merit).

vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c1a1.htm

 

[KindredSoul]

I think that, IF a Catholic Sociopath really believed in Catholicism (as opposed to just going along with it to follow his schemes), then it’s certainly possible that he could go to Heaven by utilizing the sacrament of confession. Remember, in order for Confession to be valid, he would really have to have an honest intention to sin no more, so this doesn’t mean he would just be “plotting.”

Remember, in order for the Sacrament of Confession to be valid, one doesn’t HAVE to have True Contrition, one can indeed merely fear going to Hell. So even a sociopath, who is only concerned for “what’s in it for me” (as sociopaths are) could be quite honest about wanting to avoid Hell, and therefore, if he knows his Catholic faith well enough to know that a genuine intention to avoid sin is necessary for a valid confession, he would also be capable of cultivating that intention. Yes, it would be out of self-interest, but out of His great mercy God has made it possible to be saved even from mere self-interest, through the sacrament of confession. It’s true that a sociopath would probably need to be cleansed and perfected in Purgatory until he became capable of genuine love and concern for others, but by no means do I think it’s impossible for one to go to Heaven.

Basically, a sociopath can be motivated to do something and take it seriously IF he thinks it’s in his own best interests. So basically, a Sociopath would simply have to be convinced that hell is real and that being a devout Catholic who tries to live a good life is in his best interests. Conversely, if a sociopath–who tends, as I understand it, to be starved for stimulation and excitement–can be convinced that Heaven is real and that the beatific vision offers the ultimate in those things he craves, he might even be willing to live a devout Catholic life for that alone.

It may indeed be impossible, in this life, for a sociopath to have Perfect Contrition. But thankfully God in His mercy has made it so that, through the sacrament of confession, one may be forgiven despite lacking that.

Blessings in Christ,
KindredSoul

 

[anixx]

I think they are forgiven from fear of hell alone. Absolution is absolution. *** If people thought like you no one should go to confession.***

The schemers know this is just talk.

Well, as this pious baloney kept me from confession for a long time.

Why not!? I go to Confession.
I was referring that if a person doesn’t want to change their life, and are content in the state they are in, then there can be no remission of sins.
And to sin because you will be forgiven is a sin against the Holy Spirit.

 

[opusAquinas]

Hey guess what The Schemers know that running to confession will save them.

 

[opusAquinas]

Why not!? I go to Confession.
I was referring that if a person doesn’t want to change their life, and are content in the state they are in, then there can be no remission of sins.
And to sin because you will be forgiven is a sin against the Holy Spirit.

No one sins because they are going to be forgiven.

Hey guess what The Schemers know that running to confession will save them. Schemers are going to scheme. Your overly pious talk just gives everyone else scruples.

You know that you are going to sin even though you go to confession. You know you will fail. How much effort is true effort not to sin? Why do you go to confession knowing you are going to sin again? Martin Luther claimed one should sin boldly.

 

[opusAquinas]

You can’t fool God.

If sinners rely on Confession as a license to sin they are committing the sin of presumption.

Sins against the First Commandment include presumption:

"2092 There are two kinds of presumption. Either man presumes upon his own capacities, (hoping to be able to save himself without help from on high), or he presumes upon God’s almighty power or his mercy (hoping to obtain his forgiveness without conversion and glory without merit).

vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c1a1.htm

Hmmm… so you go to confession. How do you know your sins are forgiven? Did you sin not presuming you would be forgiven???

 

[SpidersfromMars]

There are lots of crazies in the world of all stripes and religions. Knowing a little about what makes a sociopath, I venture to say they rarely see a Confessional unless it is advantageous to some manipulative scheme. Try and find another way to satisfy your problem with folks who frequent the Sacrament of Confession. Making a generalized statement about us being sociopaths for going is not charitable.

Glenda

Sociopaths aren’t necessarily ‘crazy’ per se, they just lack the ability to feel empathy, which makes it easier for them to do things that others would consider cruel. Doesn’t mean for sure that they are always sinning.

 

[opusAquinas]

Sociopaths aren’t necessarily ‘crazy’ per se, they just lack the ability to feel empathy, which makes it easier for them to do things that others would consider cruel. Doesn’t mean for sure that they are always sinning.

I think I should have called this thread “Catholic Schemers” instead of “Catholic Sociopaths.”

 

[Heathcliff80]

It’s unlikely a sociopath wil go to cofession very often as they do not usually think of what they have done as wrong. There wil often be the thought that ‘It wasn’t really a sin so I don’t need to confess it.’

The psychological make up of a sociopath is such that we cannot know for certain how much they can be held to account for their actions.

Remember "conscience can remain in ignorance, or make erroneous judgements [but they] are not always free from guilt.

Before even considering the motives to attend confession and all things being place necessary for forgiveness I think the culpability of the sociopath needs to be addresed first.

 

[opusAquinas]

It’s unlikely a sociopath wil go to cofession very often as they do not usually think of what they have done as wrong. There wil often be the thought that ‘It wasn’t really a sin so I don’t need to confess it.’

The psychological make up of a sociopath is such that we cannot know for certain how much they can be held to account for their actions.

Remember "conscience can remain in ignorance, or make erroneous judgements [but they] are not always free from guilt.

Before even considering the motives to attend confession and all things being place necessary for forgiveness I think the culpability of the sociopath needs to be addresed first.

If they know the rules they may apply paschal type wager and go to confession.

 

[AussieTrish]

Before I go to sleep, let me just say you seem to be inordinately concerned with presumptions about others’ consciences!
Pray for others, but perhaps don’t be so ready to presume about others and to judge them regarding your presumptions.
Only God truly knows the hearts and minds of others.
The best gift you can give to others’ souls is prayer for them.

It is not the case that repentance depends necessarily upon feelings, but upon choices. A ‘sociopath’ can make the right choices whether or not he or she feels emotion regarding sins or anything else.

And why on earth presume others are making false confessions with no purpose of amending their lives? The fact that they may fail and have to try again doesn’t mean they’re scheming. They have human weakness and are trying to avoid sin, but human weakness does mean they may sometimes fail.

God grant you a kind and Christlike heart and mind.

 

[opusAquinas]

Before I go to sleep, let me just say you seem to be inordinately concerned with presumptions about others’ consciences!
Pray for others, but perhaps don’t be so ready to presume about others and to judge them regarding your presumptions.
Only God truly knows the hearts and minds of others.
The best gift you can give to others’ souls is prayer for them.

It is not the case that repentance depends necessarily upon feelings, but upon choices. A ‘sociopath’ can make the right choices whether or not he or she feels emotion regarding sins or anything else.

And why on earth presume others are making false confessions with no purpose of amending their lives? The fact that they may fail and have to try again doesn’t mean they’re scheming. They have human weakness and are trying to avoid sin, but human weakness does mean they may sometimes fail.

God grant you a kind and Christlike heart and mind.

I see what I see. The sky is blue the grass is green. Why do many schemers use the confessional as a license to sin. Do you understand? God knows but doesn’t seem to mind.

 

[clintonm]

Your presumption that God doesn’t mind has been proven wrong. God commands that we must confess and convert our lives to stop sinning. Otherwise it is another sin in addition to whatever it is you wish to confess. God can read your heart.

I will make a presumption that you already have your mind made up about something, so what is your scheme in this thread?

I will also add to your original post about sociopaths. Lacking empathy does not equal sin. One can not have empathy, or understand the wrongness of an action emotionally and still not perform that action. A true Catholic sociopath, who follows the commandments of Jesus and does so out of an intellectual acceptance of Jesus would be somebody of true faith.

 

[MaryT777]

I see what I see. The sky is blue the grass is green. Why do many schemers use the confessional as a license to sin. Do you understand? God knows but doesn’t seem to mind.

God gave us a free will; that doesn’t mean he doesn’t mind how the confessional is used.
Mary.