Catholic Sociopaths

[opusAquinas]

Forgive me if I laugh about this one. My husband will too if I tell him.
I’ve been married for many decades to a good husband who isn’t greatly inclined to sentimental displays. He is a thinking rather than a feeling man. He is a practical man.
I know he loves me not because of hugs and kisses, not because of chocolates and flowers ( our resources are limited so we use them for practical things).
Your argument has no basis in point. His behaviour has been decency, loyalty, trust, courtesy and respect, regardless of difficulties… Your argument is laughably inappropriate for us. Our love for each other is strong, and shows itself in the decent and kind way we treat each other even after many decades of marriage. He will help me and others, not because he has a high feeling index. He doesn’t. He does so from the goodness in his spirit.
He’s not likely to say “I love you” show by pretty displays. He simply lives it.
Love is choices, not only emotional gestures.

**
According to the bible we don’t know other people’s spirits, and no one can get inside anyone else’s heads.
We only have our own framework of perception and assessment. This is why you, and all of us, shouldn’t be quick to judge others or to ascribe feelings and intentions to them**

Follow the logic - your logic

You said you can’t know a person’s mindset - that is presumptious.

I said how then does a person know another’s heart then?

That they are loved by for example their spouse - husband or even wife. (Off topic though I specifically think that men cannot feel love toward another forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=894578).

 

[opusAquinas]

If my husband loved me, and I believe him to be truthful, and we are happy, then it’s really none of your business.
How do YOU know everyone lies all the time. Do YOU lie all the time?
Are YOU dishonest in relationships?
Are YOU unhappy all the time?

Seriously, you need to hang out with better people.
Who has hurt you this badly that you give up on all of humanity?
Forgive them and move on.

Or are you just posting for fun? You find this fun, no?
Arguing and saying stuff to get people all riled up. …

I am not talking about lying. Read the logic of presumption or assumptions. If you can’t a statement about a person’s mindset because that is presumptious then how can one know the mindset of another human being - then how can one even interact with another person if they can’t make judgement about the other person - don’t presume I’ve been dishonest - I am not projecting. I’m reporting. You are making presumptions and that is a sin - in your logic.

 

[Trishie]

Some thoughts to ponder,
Kind wishes and prayers,
Trishie

Judge you, my brother?

Holy God, eternity waits for those who live the gospel to truly share in Your delight in each person. With You, we will rejoice in everyone who accepts Christ’s invitation to follow Him with prayer, penance and generosity!

How profound is the giving required by that person, and this! What happiness, what anguish is known there! What temptation is encountered! What sensitivities enfeeble or enrich and sanctify that life! How great is Your glory in the strange or ordinary facts and struggles of their existence! Yet, how can we know?

We err in applying rules of private interpretation to another’s intention or act, except as feeble measure for our compassion and charity. Only by one’s private consciousness—unless enlightened by Your Spirit of love—can each see what lies in another’s soul.

Each person is a unique expression of Your love, an individual world, some great, and some miniature, separate in existence and consciousness, yet united in You. Yet how quickly do we judge each other! We offer You our hurt and theirs in prayer for healing and forgiveness.

Let us not belittle or betray, in thought, or by gossip—the seemingly sinful, the apparently misled or foolish, or those perceived to be ugly, or crippled in mind or spirit. Let us celebrate their preciousness in You. Let us no longer sin against Your sacred love and creation in anyone by our judgements however seemingly justified.

Let Your Holy Spirit know and love each other person through us, with sensitivity to their emerging needs. Give us compassion for each other, however perplexed or inaccurate our perception, so that we revere each other—and ourselves—as individuals sacred to You.

Through Your Spirit, we can offer appreciation, justice and love to each other as we wait humbly on the full vision of Your meaning, purpose, and love of each person, in the final translation that follows death.
Let us serve and intercede for each other person as loved child of God, in glad, trusting welcome.

 

[Trishie]

Prayer for understanding of others

Jesus, pardon and enlighten us where we fail to love others wisely and respectfully.

Jesus, please open us to receive each other with love, so that we no longer betray God’s Love that re-creates us in each moment of life. Reveal to us our sins against charity, and heal us of fears and prejudices that lead to judgement of others.

How easily even the generous Christian may perhaps reduce others to categories, judging them with unconscious pride and lack of empathy! How carelessly, with convincing appraisal and bias, we dismiss others in their seeming sin, error or foolishness. How often we misjudge them in their difficulties and achievements, and underestimate their intrinsic worth as persons!

Jesus, please forgive us that we presume to deal uncharitably with anyone! Each person is Your own creation lovingly spoken out of Yourself in the private language of love chosen for each alone! No matter how different from one’s own character or journey, the path and meaning of each person is treasured mystery hidden within You!

Let us share in Your love for others, rejoicing in Your image within them whether evident or not. Let us reverence our dissimilarity and their individuality. Let us be respectful and discreet in our helpfulness. Have mercy on our prayer and goodwill for them, so that we may love them with Your Love.

Let Your Spirit fill my heart, mouth and prayer with gifts of Your love and truth for others. Let me be endowment of Your own self, Your sacrament, and our gentle Mother present to them. I ask this despite my evident failures in loving.

I implore that You will free me wholly into Your love, wisdom, and compassion. I wait humbly in my daily efforts, knowing that in Your mercy You will grant my prayer to love Yourself in me with all strength and being, and to love others through me with Jesus’ love.

 

[Trishie]

Judgement of others

Jesus, please alert us when we are tempted to judge other people. Our judgements may be based on another’s opinion, on flimsy evidence or on past observations, without full knowledge of someone’s situation and nature. Even if others appear to blatantly sin, we cannot judge them according to Your vision. Please give us grace to extend impartiality and compassion to all others, friend, foe or stranger.

We cannot know others’ motivations or all the influences affecting them, so we have doubtless misjudged others more frequently than we realise. Give us grace to avoid unkind or scandalous gossip.

Enlighten those who see a few incidents or an isolated occurrence or appearance, even from years past, and then presume to make a permanent judgement like “he always does this.” “She always is like that.” “He is that sort of person.” How unjust to judge others in this way! Even if former perceptions happen to be accurate, who can judge that any person has not advanced in wisdom or grace!

If we defend victims of misjudgement, some accusers reconsider their opinion, while others cling to prejudice. Some people believe that their subjective view of people, reality, and events is the only valid one; therefore, we cannot expect them to be open to contrary evidence or testimony. They honestly believe that their judgements are correct. They seem not to be fully responsible for the injustice of their viewpoints.

We cannot judge even these people for perhaps they suffer from personal insecurity or desire for ascendancy over others, due to immaturity or low self-esteem. Their lack of respect and compassion may be hurtful to someone we love or respect, but let us respond with Christian maturity, without besmirching their reputations. Please expand their mental and emotional maturity so that with just and empathetic understanding of others, they—and we—may make reparation for the reputation and welfare of anyone who has been maligned or misjudged.

We trust in Your love to pardon us and to greatly bless anyone we have sinned against by judgement or unkindness. Jesus, help us truly to love our sisters and brothers, whether or not we understand them.

“Question your friend, he may have done nothing at all, and if he has done something he will not do it again. Question your neighbour, he may have said nothing at all, and if he has, he will not say it again. Question your friend, for slander is very common, do not believe all you hear. A man sometimes makes a slip, without meaning what he says; and which of us has never sinned by speech?” [Ecclesiasticus 1913-17]

 

[Trishie]

Understanding

My dear, I love you,
but the reasons matter not.
One cannot argue with the fact of love
which is entirely of the stuff of God.

Yet, my dear, we sometimes seem estranged!
my thought and heart have failed to closely match your own
and we leave each other alien for a while–
even wounded for life–
though both are imaged in love of the same eternal God!

The wonder perhaps is that we meet at all
for each created being is possessed of logic,
of identity unique within itself
which only appears reflected in others’ lives and thoughts
for none can know or judge but by a private consciousness.

Each soul remains hidden within divine Love’s mysteries
manifest in wondrous individual expression.
It is a whole world, formed and blessed,
and burdened with heavy crosses, perhaps?
a world in value, goodness and giving apparently slight?
yet perhaps its’ all–the sum of what God grants it
for His own secret delight!

After death many surprises await,
of treasure buried in simple human hearts
concealed perhaps in ugly shapes, foolish deeds and ordinary lives
and in lives that others might choose to brush aside or to crush
as crippled, useless, unbalanced, peculiar, unwanted, unworthy…
He miniaturises His special created delights sometimes–
persons negligible even to themselves.

And it pleases Him that our least ones He shall exalt
before the vast and great and good.
From God alone
comes union and mutual understanding of souls, minds and hearts.
True comprehension waits upon
the fullness of eternal communion, begun in Eucharist.

Until then I only know, like you, the truths as I allow Him
to speak them in my limited, biased self.
I cannot know and love you, dear, nor you myself,
unless God grants this gift.
This does not mean that I do not love you.
Just that I love the best that I can.
Forgive me all the rest. And I, you too.

 

[opusAquinas]

Understanding

My dear, I love you,
but the reasons matter not.
One cannot argue with the fact of love
which is entirely of the stuff of God.

You keep referring not being able to know the truth about people. As far back as nursery school people were figuring out each other. What type of people the other were -what they were into etc etc etc. Yes, the fact is some of us can be more often right then wrong about the facts of another. What you keep insisting is*** not to condemn
*** them no matter what. Sure. Wise.
Satan is the ruler of this world (for now). And lots of evil in it. Sadly being Catholic does not mean you aren’t evil. It just means… well the Protestants did away with confession.

1. Don’t condemn people because you can be wrong about them
2. Even if you are not wrong about them
3. It is ok to avoid those people though and wonder how on earth are they saved?
4. • and also yet God is merciful even for these schemers. Surely I’m saved!
5. But that turns me into a schemer too.

 

[pianistclare]

I am not talking about lying. Read the logic of presumption or assumptions. If you can’t a statement about a person’s mindset because that is presumptious then how can one know the mindset of another human being - then how can one even interact with another person if they can’t make judgement about the other person - don’t presume I’ve been dishonest - I am not projecting. I’m reporting. You are making presumptions and that is a sin - in your logic.

You’re funny.

 

[Trishie]

Certainly observation teaches us something about others, as do their actions.

Yet we do understand others also though our own preconceptions and prejudices, and by understanding our own selves, however these can be misunderstandings.
We make certain decisions relating to these signs, allowing them to guide us where needed.
You have surely sometimes been misjudged by others and misunderstood, when your intentions may be the best.
Therefore should understand that your beliefs about others are not certainty, but are interpretation according to your own mind.

I won’t be continuing in the discussion as much has been written by posters that could have assisted your better understanding but these have had no impact upon your understanding, it would appear.

Best wishes and prayers,

Trishie

 

[opusAquinas]

Certainly observation teaches us something about others, as do their actions.

Yet we do understand others also though our own preconceptions and prejudices, and by understanding our own selves, however these can be misunderstandings.
We make certain decisions relating to these signs, allowing them to guide us where needed.
You have surely sometimes been misjudged by others and misunderstood, when your intentions may be the best.
Therefore should understand that your beliefs about others are not certainty, but are interpretation according to your own mind.

I won’t be continuing in the discussion as much has been written by posters that could have assisted your better understanding but these have had no impact upon your understanding, it would appear.

Best wishes and prayers,

Trishie

You said again about warning us about misunderstanding people. But we have to understand people and make judgments about them like who is a serpent and who a dove. But some of us are really good at reading people. The point is don’t condemn them. Pray for them even avoid them but don’t condemn them.

Here’s my logical reply again below verbatim:

You keep referring not being able to know the truth about people. As far back as nursery school people were figuring out each other. What type of people the other were -what they were into etc etc etc. Yes, the fact is some of us can be more often right then wrong about the facts of another. What you keep insisting is not to condemn
them no matter what. Sure. Wise.
Satan is the ruler of this world (for now). And lots of evil in it. Sadly being Catholic does not mean you aren’t evil. It just means… well the Protestants did away with confession.

1. Don’t condemn people because you can be wrong about them
2. Even if you are not wrong about them
3. It is ok to avoid those people though and wonder how on earth are they saved?
4. • and also yet God is merciful even for these schemers. Surely I’m saved!
5. But that turns me into a schemer too.

Just as an aside: I personally think there are people who can give love to others (and receive) and some people who cannot give love but only receive it. I think men cannot give only receive. I do believe that only some not all woman can give and receive. I think from reading your replies- you are one who can give.