Catholic Souls can become God?

[smad0142]

I do not know how to answer your question Caprica except by being able to say what it is not. We will not exercise the Divine Nature, because that is impossible for anyone posessing a human nature. It is pure Love, Grace, Joy, Bliss, Happiness. It is ecstasy, the fullness of the Glory of God. It is awesome.

 

[RebeccaJ]

My apologies, it was SirThomasMore who called me “horribly dishonest”

I posted on another forum because I think, if more LDS understand what Catholics believe, the level of discussion can migrate towards a real exchange of info, or end peacefully.

I’m tired of these threads that are endless he said/ she said ping pong matches. They are ego strokers and not informative.

A real exchange is not possible at MADB, unless you present yourself as LDS or a golden contact. If you aren’t either of those you had better behave extremely :bowdown:submissive.:bowdown:

 

[Caprica]

Quite simply, it means we share in the Glory of God, not become one.

orthodoxwiki.org/Theosis

Read the full Maxwell article. As it points out, the differences begin with who or what God is, in the first place.

Yes, thanks, I’ve read the entire Orthodoxwiki page and Vajda’s entire dissertation (also available from the Maxwell Institute) before.

My question is what do you mean by this terminology of becoming what God is, sharing in the Glory of God, etc. What does that mean, as in, what happens to us when this occurs? According to Vajda’s article, the human would have (in addition to their human nature) the “uncreated divine energies”. So, what does it mean to have those energies? What does this “do”?

I think that Vajda hit on what I’m trying to understand-
**
“While patristic writers such as St. Irenaeus and St. Gregory of Nyssa consistently affirm the unlimited potential of the divinized human person, they are just as consistent in their vagueness when it comes to speaking of just what those who experience divinization actually “do.””**

So, if the divinized person has “unlimited potential”, what does that mean?

 

[RebeccaJ]

What does it mean to “[share] fully in the Heart of Life of the Trinity, i.e. we will share in the Divine Nature.”? What do you believe happens to us when we do that?

Just as the sacrifice of the unblemished lamb prefigured the Sacrifice of Jesus Christ, so we understand the Sacraments prefigure life in the presence of God (heaven).

In the Eucharist, we (the communion of all believers, the Body of the Church with Christ as the Head) partake of the divine nature. God is made Present, Body and Blood, and shares Himself with us. We do not become that nature, but we do become part of Him and He of us.

We understand this prefigures for us, foretells, or prophecies, what our share in the Life of God means.

 

[SirThomasMore]

This was explained at length on another thread. Not sure why this thread was started.

Especially since Todd posted on the Mormon Board the Catechism quote and said Catholics do not know their doctrine DESPITE the fact that several Catholics responded and very clearly knew the doctrine.

 

[RebeccaJ]

This was explained at length on another thread. Not sure why this thread was started.

Especially since Todd posted on the Mormon Board the Catechism quote and said Catholics do not know their doctrine DESPITE the fact that several Catholics responded and very clearly knew the doctrine.

To be fair, Todd is seeing mormon doctrine with Catholic eyes, or, Catholic doctrine with mormon eyes. Not sure which, and maybe it’s all been blended together like a Friday night margarita. Tasty, but its best to keep it to a glass or two, because if you drink to much, you’ll lose clarity of thought. (Among other things. lol)

 

[Caprica]

Just as the sacrifice of the unblemished lamb prefigured the Sacrifice of Jesus Christ, so we understand the Sacraments prefigure life in the presence of God (heaven).

In the Eucharist, we (the communion of all believers, the Body of the Church with Christ as the Head) partake of the divine nature. God is made Present, Body and Blood, and shares Himself with us. We do not become that nature, but we do become part of Him and He of us.

We understand this prefigures for us, foretells, or prophecies, what our share in the Life of God means.

So what does partaking of the divine nature “do” to a person? As mentioned above, according to Vajda, some patristic writers have referred to the " unlimited potential of the divinized human person". What does that refer to?

 

[SirThomasMore]

the bottom line is that Catholics believe we are gods only insofar as we share in Christ’s divinity.

Mormons beleive they become gods and get their own planets. They will have peokple subservient to them as gods. They will become part of the council of the gods that Joe talked about.

 

[RebeccaJ]

So what does partaking of the divine nature “do” to a person?

What all the graces of God do. Sanctify us.

some patristic writers have referred to the " unlimited potential of the divinized human person". What does that refer to?

I would need to see this in context from the person who wrote it. Do you know where it came from?

 

[scipio337]

So what does partaking of the divine nature “do” to a person? As mentioned above, according to Vajda, some patristic writers have referred to the " unlimited potential of the divinized human person". What does that refer to?

I’m not sure what you’re looking for. What does it physically do? Could you frame it with an example of what LDS exaltation “does” in the same respect?

 

[Caprica]

I’m not sure what you’re looking for. What does it physically do? Could you frame it with an example of what LDS exaltation “does” in the same respect?

Perhaps this paragraph from the Vajda article that you linked to will be helpful:
**
“As was noted previously, the doctrines of theosis and exaltation both teach a concept of eternal progress; where they differ in this regard has to do with how they specify the meaning of the work and activity that divinized humans will undertake. While patristic writers such as St. Irenaeus and St. Gregory of Nyssa consistently affirm the unlimited potential of the divinized human person, they are just as consistent in their vagueness when it comes to speaking of just what those who experience divinization actually “do.” Not so with the doctrine of exaltation. The activities of exalted persons are very clear. They will do all those things that their own Heavenly Parents have done: they will organize matter into universes and worlds; they will produce spirit children; they will provide a plan whereby their spirit children can attain divinization also. Just as they were the recipients of blessings and grace from God, exalted persons become sources of blessing and grace for other intelligences.9”**

So, my question is addressing the "vagueness when it comes to speaking of just what those who experience divinization actually “do” ". You and others have spoken extensively on partaking of the divine nature, becoming by grace what God is by nature, unity with the life of the Trinity, etc., but I’m wondering what it actually means for that to occur (what does it “do” to the person, how are they different, etc). We of course can’t know everything about everything, however I’d just like to know what Catholics mean by these phrases as far as what are the implications for the individual that is divinized.

 

[josephdaniel29]

So what does partaking of the divine nature “do” to a person?

Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,
Nor have entered into the heart of man
The things which God has prepared for those who love Him

The primary thing it does to us in this life is to grow more and more in perfect unselfish love. After all, that is what God is.

As mentioned above, according to Vajda, some patristic writers have referred to the " unlimited potential of the divinized human person". What does that refer to?

It refers to the fact that God is infinite and we are not, so there will always be more room for us to grow, even to all eternity.

Yours in Christ
Joe

 

[Caprica]

What all the graces of God do. Sanctify us.

I would need to see this in context from the person who wrote it. Do you know where it came from?

It’s from the article that scipio337 linked to on comparisons between exaltation and theosis. The author states that "While patristic writers such as St. Irenaeus and St. Gregory of Nyssa consistently affirm the unlimited potential of the divinized human person, they are just as consistent in their vagueness when it comes to speaking of just what those who experience divinization actually “do.” ". Unfortunately, Vajda doesn’t give a citation for either, so I’d have to look around (though I assume that Catholics are more familiar with the patristic record, especially Irenaeus).

 

[LongJourney]

Receive the SACRED BODY OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST to become the body of Christ here on Earth, doing what He would will us to do. We all work together. One is the arm, one is the leg, another is an eye. We all work together to make this world what He would want it to be.

In contrast, each LDS member is a god unto himself. (Speaking sarcastically)

I’m backing out of this silly argument over terms that look alike but are wholly different.

 

[azerty]

"when it comes to speaking of just what those who experience divinization actually “do.” ". "

just read St Paul’s epistles or the life of saints

 

[Caprica]

Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,
Nor have entered into the heart of man
The things which God has prepared for those who love Him

The primary thing it does to us in this life is to grow more and more in perfect unselfish love. After all, that is what God is.

It refers to the fact that God is infinite and we are not, so there will always be more room for us to grow, even to all eternity.

Yours in Christ
Joe

Thank you very much Joe. So there will be growth for all eternity, that is interesting.

 

[RebeccaJ]

It’s from the article that scipio337 linked to on comparisons between exaltation and theosis. The author states that "While patristic writers such as St. Irenaeus and St. Gregory of Nyssa consistently affirm the unlimited potential of the divinized human person,

I agree with josephdaniel29 on this point. But would caution your mormon mind to not confuse unlimited growth with taking on God’s nature.

they are just as consistent in their vagueness when it comes to speaking of just what those who experience divinization actually “do.” .

It isn’t being vague. It would like asking the OT prophets to tell us how God’s Salvation was going to happen. They never say exactly, yet Salvation in the OT isn’t vague. It is an explicit assurance.

 

[Caprica]

I agree with josephdaniel29 on this point.

It isn’t being vague. It would like asking the OT prophets to tell us how God’s Salvation was going to happen. They never say exactly, yet Salvation in the OT isn’t vague. It is an explicit assurance.

Okay thanks RebeccaJ.

 

[PJM]

=Todd520;6964566]I have been repeatedly told in CAF that LDS are not Christian because we presume to become gods/God/like god after we die.

Now I read in the Catholic Catechism that Catholics also believe a soul can become God/gods.

Is the Catechism wrong or are some posters un-catechized?
(I unerstand the purpose of the Catechism is to clearly state beliefs so that interpretation errors are not possible.)

VERY GOOD POINT. But what does it mean?

**460 **The Word became flesh to make us “partakers of the divine nature”:“For this is why the Word became man, and the Son of God became the Son of man: so that man, by entering into communion with the Word and thus receiving divine sonship, might become a son of God.” “For the Son of God became man so that we might become God.” “The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods.”

1322 The holy Eucharist completes Christian initiation. Those who have been raised to the dignity of the royal priesthood by Baptism and configured more deeply to Christ by Confirmation participate with the whole community in the Lord’s own sacrifice by means of the Eucharist.

1325 “The Eucharist is the efficacious sign and sublime cause of that communion in the divine life and that unity of the People of God by which the Church is kept in being. It is the culmination both of God’s action sanctifying the world in Christ and of the worship men offer to Christ and through him to the Father in the Holy Spirit.”

1391 Holy Communion augments our union with Christ. The principal fruit of receiving the Eucharist in Holy Communion is an intimate union with Christ Jesus. Indeed, the Lord said: “He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.” Life in Christ has its foundation in the Eucharistic banquet: “As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats me will live because of me.”

Gen.1 Verses 26 to 27

"Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.” So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. "

In receiving Catholic Holy Communion [the Real Glorified Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Himself]

Jesus becomes a part of us

AND

We become apart of Jesus [Who is God]…

It is in this REAL way that properly received we become ONE WITH JESUS [for as long as the Sacred Host [Jesus Himself] remains in our bodies.

This is God’s actions NOT our own human actions. This is God’s choice NOT one that we usurp for ourselves as do LDS who do not accept Christ as God, and determine that upon death they will be like gods.

Thus ignoring the First Commandment.

Love and prayers frind, nice try.

Pat

 

[SirThomasMore]

My apologies, it was SirThomasMore who called me “horribly dishonest”

I posted on another forum because I think, if more LDS understand what Catholics believe, the level of discussion can migrate towards a real exchange of info, or end peacefully.

I’m tired of these threads that are endless he said/ she said ping pong matches. They are ego strokers and not informative.

well, when you go to another board and post the Catechism section and state that Catholics don;t know their doctrine when all the Cathlics on that thread knew the doctrine and were explaining it, it IS horribly dishonest.