Catholic Spending

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Chaulmers

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I am a confirmed Catholic and have wondered this question for some time and if this is in the wrong forum I apologize.

I am wondering why Catholic churches and other institutions need to be anything more than a gym. Why spend so much money on the building when there is so much suffering in the world and charitable works and helping others are such a big thing in the Catholic church.

IS it to attract others? Which personally I dont want people in my church who only go there because they have a nice big marble altar or cool stonework, I want religious people not people admiring architecture.

I am generally curious, just think about how much food you could buy for people in India and Africa if you sold a church by me and instead built a modest gym.
 
I’m not Catholic but many of these opulent churches are made of stone and marble and are built to last centuries.

Just for thought, Remember when the Israelites were wandering around in the desert…when God commanded them to build a temple to hold the commandments, He ordered Moses to use gold and expensive, lavish materials…and remember He was asking a bunch of refugees who had just crossed a sea and just fled Egypt. There must be a reason there.
 
So essentially we should allow churches to indulge themselves in lavish spending because Jesus let a girl waste perfume and she will be the popular kid all over?

Yes they do donate, but when spreading the word and helping people out are the biggest goals shouldnt you do as much as you possibly can? Salvation army for instance is a charitable organization that is within its means.
 
And you have not remotely answered my original question

11The poor you will always have with you, but you will not always have me. 12When she poured this perfume on my body, she did it to prepare me for burial. 13I tell you the truth, wherever this gospel is preached throughout the world, what she has done will also be told, in memory of her.”

So Jesus said there will always be poor people, let this girl help me and her name will be spread(popular kid).

I see that as a justification for helping someone who is dying, and that you can help those you care about without having to always give to the poor. Hardly justifiable to build a 50 million dollar church.
 
Chaulmers said:
I am a confirmed Catholic and have wondered this question for some time and if this is in the wrong forum I apologize.

I am wondering why Catholic churches and other institutions need to be anything more than a gym. Why spend so much money on the building when there is so much suffering in the world and charitable works and helping others are such a big thing in the Catholic church.

IS it to attract others? Which personally I dont want people in my church who only go there because they have a nice big marble altar or cool stonework, I want religious people not people admiring architecture.

I am generally curious, just think about how much food you could buy for people in India and Africa if you sold a church by me and instead built a modest gym.
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I am wondering why you need anything more than what is absolutely necessary for life. Why spend so much money on a computer, electricity, and an internet provider when there is so much suffering in the world and charitable works and helping others are such a big thing.

I am generally curious, just think about how much food you could buy for people in India and Africa if you sold everything you have that is in excess and donated the money to the poor.

Honestly, until you yourself have stripped down to the bare necessities, do you have any business criticizing anybody else for not doing so? 🤷
 
I hold the church to a higher standard as a organization who is tax exempt for charitable reasons. And frankly shouldnt the church be held to a higher standard than one person? I mean if you say you are charitable, are exempt because of it, and build these lavish buildings I guess I am just asking what is the point.

In your post you attacked me, but you still did not answer the question.

That is ad hominum fallacy.
 
Chaulmers said:
I hold the church to a higher standard as a organization who is tax exempt for charitable reasons. And frankly shouldnt the church be held to a higher standard than one person? I mean if you say you are charitable, are exempt because of it, and build these lavish buildings I guess I am just asking what is the point.

In your post you attacked me, but you still did not answer the question.

That is ad hominum fallacy.
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I have no dog in the fight, since I endorse whatever the Church decides, but it isn’t a fallacy. The principle is the same, even if it isn’t an answer to your question.

You can’t espouse stripping down of all non-necessities while typing on a computer and posting to an internet, likely in the confines of some air-conditioned room. Unless you are changing the argument that those with tax-exempt status should have to live frugallly, and not you… The Church is not held to a higher standard in this regard, since we are eached judged on our own merits, not on a curve relative to everyone else. There is room eough in hell for all of us, and room enough in heaven for all of us.

I understand the question, and someone else will answer it shortly, but be honest enough to admit you aren’t willing to live the standard you espouse here. There are lots of hypocritical things we all do. Be honest enough to admit it, and accept it as a failing and something we need to work on. Most of us can accept sin and hypocrisy, but people pretending as though they aren’t sinning is nauseating.
 
Chaulmers said:
I hold the church to a higher standard as a organization who is tax exempt for charitable reasons. And frankly shouldnt the church be held to a higher standard than one person? I mean if you say you are charitable, are exempt because of it, and build these lavish buildings I guess I am just asking what is the point.

In your post you attacked me, but you still did not answer the question.

That is ad hominum fallacy.
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Sorry, but the difference is only a matter of degree, not of kind. Since stripping down to the bare minimum is the principle you propose, you should be the first to follow it.

Or do you think it is perfectly fine to criticize others for the same behavior you do?

As for your claim of an ad hominen, I refer you to the Bible: “For as you judge, so will you be judged, and the measure with which you measure will be measured out to you.” (Matthew 7:2). Please please please take that verse to heart.

Look, I used to think the same thing. Then I realized how wrong it was of me to criticize the Church for not selling off its excess unless I was willing to do the same.
 
Okay well I still do not believe I am supposed to be held to the same standard, however let us entertain that idea.

I am not asking for the church to strip down to absolutely nothing, just get rid of the gold, marble, elaborate things that frankly do not serve a purpose in their mission.

Me having a computer is necessary for my job, as is the internet. I am not lavishly indulging as much as the churches do. That would be like me buying every single video game to ever come out and display them in my front yard.
 
Also my principal purpose in life is not to serve others, that is not the highest thing on my list. I am not a Priest. The church’s priorities are to serve others.

To compare the 2 is well comparing apples and oranges.

And besides this is getting away from the point. Let us say you are correct, I strip down to nothing then I can criticize the church? Okay let me do that, now what? That still does not give a reason for the church behaving the way they do.
 
Chaulmers said:
Also my principal purpose in life is not to serve others, that is not the highest thing on my list. I am not a Priest. The church’s priorities are to serve others.

To compare the 2 is well comparing apples and oranges.

And besides this is getting away from the point. Let us say you are correct, I strip down to nothing then I can criticize the church? Okay let me do that, now what? That still does not give a reason for the church behaving the way they do.
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Actually, our primary purpose it to serve God and to serve others. Our jobs are just means to those ends.

P.S. - if you do sell your games, PM me. Battlefield 3 and CoD are getting stale for me.
 
Chaulmers said:
Okay well I still do not believe I am supposed to be held to the same standard
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Of course you are!!!

I quoted the very words of Jesus Christ to you in which He states quite clearly that we are held to the same standard we apply to others. How can you then say you do not believe you are “supposed to be held to the same standard”?

Surely you don’t think Jesus is a liar, do you?
 
Okay so let us extend those principles to the church. Serve God and Serve others. How would spending so much on a church achieve those?
 
Kay_Cee said:
Of course you are!!!

I quoted the very words of Jesus Christ to you in which He states quite clearly that we are held to the same standard we apply to others. How can you then say you do not believe you are “supposed to be held to the same standard”?

Surely you don’t think Jesus is a liar, do you?
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That still does not answer the question. What if I did get rid of everything, then would that church be right?

The answer is no. I am looking for a reason for why they do that.
 
Chaulmers said:
That still does not answer the question. What if I did get rid of everything, then would that church be right?

The answer is no. I am looking for a reason for why they do that.
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You need to answer the same question regarding yourself first. Why do you refuse to strip down all your excess and give the money to the poor?

I think you’re missing the point I’m trying to make. Some day all of us will be judged. You and I both will be judged by the same standard we apply to others.

I am going light years beyond your question to show you what is pertinent to your soul. That is infinitely more important because you are worth infinitely more.

That is why you should answer the question about yourself first before you go pointing fingers.
 
The Catholic church is by far the largest charitable organization in the world. They also build churches that glorify God and are built to last. I guess you just can’t please everyone. BTW - my church doesn’t have any gold or marble.
 
Kay_Cee said:
You need to answer the same question regarding yourself first. Why do you refuse to strip down all your excess and give the money to the poor?

I think you’re missing the point I’m trying to make. Some day all of us will be judged. You and I both will be judged by the same standard we apply to others.

I am going light years beyond your question to show you what is pertinent to your soul. That is infinitely more important because you are worth infinitely more.

That is why you should answer the question about yourself first before you go pointing fingers.
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You can go as beyond as you want, you are not answering the question. I do not do it because I do not adhere to the bible as closely as the church should. We should all try, and the institution that preaches the book should adhere to it. Not saying more, but they should adhere. I strive to do my best, but frankly that does not matter.

How does having a lavish church accomplish their goals? If I stripped everything away, how would that make them change? Essentially you are saying “Well oh well let’s just wait for God to do something and judge while we suffer instead of questioning why the church does not follow its own rules”. I do not do it because I am selfish and want to live a decent life. Are you saying the church is selfish?
 
Hat4 said:
The Catholic church is by far the largest charitable organization in the world. They also build churches that glorify God and are built to last. I guess you just can’t please everyone. BTW - my church doesn’t have any gold or marble.
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So they could do even MORE good! Why are you happy with not achieving the optimum? that is great your church does not but it exists in far too many places.

Still no one has answered my question, why does the church do it?
 
I intend to start by selling off lavish assets the church owns. Frankly me selling everything I own wuld probably buy one lavish brick. I mean since we are all the church, I can sell off their assets right?
 
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