Catholic stand point on refugees?

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I’m reminded of the entire Holy Family, Jesus, His mother Mary and Joseph, seeking refuge in an inn. They could not find a room.
With all due respect, this is a very poor comparison. They were not ‘refugees.’ They were travelers. They had a home, and left it only to go for the census. This is not a refugee at all. Second, they were not any part of any group that was routinely killing Romans. Third, they were ordered by the Romans to go where they were going. Fourth, it was a single man with a pregnant woman–which is not at all what I’m seeing in the pictures. Now, if those pictures are false and misleading, I want to know, but let’s talk about facts instead of throwing out sound bites that aren’t actually that accurate or comparable.
Well actually the Holy Family were refugees. Remember when they went to Egypt? That wasn’t just to bone up on a few choice texts at the Library of Alexandria and have someone paint quick portraits of them doing goofy things in front of the pyramids. :rolleyes:

Genuine security concerns in this kind of situation are understandable and an open door policy on refugees wouldn’t be necessarily very helpful for anyone; and while it may not actually make the threat of an attack somewhere worse, its reasonable to consider the risk that it might.

That said - especially given that Thanksgiving is around the corner which in essence marks a moment when a group of starving people pitched up in a place far from home and needed help from the locals (thank goodness the Puritans weren’t religious fanatics!) - a slightly more charitable attitude (though one tempered by prudence) might be called for…
 
I’m reminded of the entire Holy Family, Jesus, His mother Mary and Joseph,** seeking refuge in an inn. They could not find a room**.
They were not ‘refugees.’ They were travelers. They had a home, and left it only to go for the census. This is not a refugee at all.
Well actually the Holy Family were refugees. Remember when they went to Egypt? That wasn’t just to bone up on a few choice texts at the Library of Alexandria and have someone paint quick portraits of them doing goofy things in front of the pyramids. :rolleyes:
It is this kind of sarcasm and snark that is unbecoming of any of us as adults and especially as those who claim to practice the Catholic faith. It is belittling and insulting and really does nothing to move any conversation forward. Moreover, if you actually care about convincing someone of your view, I would suggest you’ll have better luck treating them with respect, instead of acting as if anyone who doesn’t agree with you must be a fool and worthy only of belittling sarcastic comments and eye rolls.

I am well aware they were in Egypt, and in fact was just discussing that with my son before I ever saw this thread. However, Sy Noe is clearly referring to the trip to Bethlehem, when there was no room in the inn and they couldn’t find a room. Every meme calling them ‘refugees’ has been of them in the stable, or her pregnant on a donkey. So if we want to talk about their stay in Egypt, why do we continue to talk about Bethlehem, which was clearly not a refugee situation?
Genuine security concerns in this kind of situation are understandable and an open door policy on refugees wouldn’t be necessarily very helpful for anyone; and while it may not actually make the threat of an attack somewhere worse, its reasonable to consider the risk that it might.
That said - especially given that Thanksgiving is around the corner which in essence marks a moment when a group of starving people pitched up in a place far from home and needed help from the locals (thank goodness the Puritans weren’t religious fanatics!) - a slightly more charitable attitude (though one tempered by prudence) might be called for…
Your first paragraph is the kind of conversation we should be having. These conversations–all over the internet, not just here–might actually be more productive if more people would acknowledge there IS a security problem, and that there are reasons the US has NEVER had an open door policy, that in fact, this is not about racism, but concerns that have always existed and informed our policies.

However, sadly, your second paragraph takes it right back to saying that it’s an issue of charity–of character. What I understand from your words is that a person of charity and character would let them in, and those who oppose it are of less character. This slides right back into personal attacks in place of discussion.

There are questions that must be answered that have nothing to do with mine, or anyone else’s character:

What is the way to be charitable AND prudent?

Where is the money coming from to care for these people until they’re on their feet?

Where are they going to live? Are there going to be jobs for them? If not, will we simply continue raising taxes on working Americans to feed them? How high can taxes be raised to feed more and more immigrants before we consider how ‘charitable’ it is to those who work more and more hours at the expense of their own children?

Why are we not crying ‘uncharitable’ over the Christians who were turned away and sent back to persecution and death? Why the difference?

Are the pictures showing hordes of young, buff men accurate? If so, where are all the women and children, and explain to me why the lack of them shouldn’t raise questions about whether these are really ‘refugees.’ If the picture is not accurate, then who is lying to us with this picture, and why, and what does the group of refugees really look like?

And ‘look like,’ has nothing to do with race or color. Upthread, it was asked, what if it was you fleeing your country. And this is what raises the question. If it were most of us, we would not be leaving our children behind. Men would not be fleeing and leaving their wives, children, mothers, and sisters to their fate.

If indeed 10% of them, or 5%, are deliberately infiltrated terrorists and we have a major bombing killing hundreds as a direct result, when we were told upfront it would happen–is that really charitable toward the men, women, and children who die in that bombing, that we decided we were willing to risk *their *lives? On what basis do we decide these lives are of less worth than those coming in?

Is it fair for a country or a family to take care of its own first?

This is the problem with just dismissing others as uncharitable. It cuts both ways. I’m not sure it’s ‘charitable’ to deliberately take such a big risk with others’ lives, either.
 
I think all Christians should pray for God to enlighten us with his will in regards to the refugee situation and be willing to accept however the Holy Spirit guides.

I have been praying that God will let me know his will and i have been arguing my point during my prayers. See I am a military veteran so i am thinking of the security of our nation, of our values, our children and grandchildren. I am concerned with the fact that more and more Americans are pushing God out of our country. I am concerned that in our country, Muslim rights are more important than Christian rights because Muslim is seen as a ethnicity more than a religion. Yet my prayers keep being answered that we should help the refugees, even if that means bring some here. I have received that message 3 times and yet i still try to explain to God why i think that is not a good idea to bring them to our country, funny, me trying to exert my will on God. It is hard to accept Gods will.

Every Sunday our priest begins mass with the Thomas More prayer for religious freedom and i pray it dutifully, going over the words with little effect. Then this past Sunday, certain parts just jumped at me and inflamed my heart to the love and compassion of Christ.

Copyright © 2012, United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, Washington, DC. All rights reserved.

O God, our Creator,
from your provident hand we have received
our right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
You have called us as your people and given us
the right and the duty to worship you, the only true God,
and your Son, Jesus Christ.
Through the power and working of your Holy Spirit,
you call us to live out our faith in the midst of the world,
bringing the light and the saving truth of the Gospel
to every corner of society.
We ask you to bless us
in our vigilance for the gift of religious liberty.
Give us the strength of mind and heart
to readily defend our freedoms when they are threatened;
give us courage in making our voices heard
on behalf of the rights of your Church
and the freedom of conscience of all people of faith.
Grant, we pray, O heavenly Father,
a clear and united voice to all your sons and daughters
gathered in your Church
in this decisive hour in the history of our nation,
so that, with every trial withstood
and every danger overcome—
for the sake of our children, our grandchildren,
and all who come after us—
this great land will always be “one nation, under God,
indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.”
We ask this through Christ our Lord.
Amen
 
He made us speechless the first few weeks we went to his Mass, but you become accustomed to his tough homilies. I’ve gone to his Masses for a year and he has not once preached something contrary to traditional Catholic teaching and often quotes Catechisms and Popes to support his positions.
I’m glad it works for you and you have a home there but I could never become accustomed to such homilies. In fact it’s those types of homilies I heard in the Catholic Church in America, that finally became the final nail in the coffin for me when it comes to Catholicism. I heard a tough one once on the poor and I attended Catholic parishes a few more times, but for all intents and purposes that sealed the deal for me. I nearly walked out if I hadn’t been there for other reasons. Too right wing political for my tastes. And I will never look at my former faith the same again. We all have different experiences though and experience things differently. Peace.
 
Well actually the Holy Family were refugees. Remember when they went to Egypt? That wasn’t just to bone up on a few choice texts at the Library of Alexandria and have someone paint quick portraits of them doing goofy things in front of the pyramids. :rolleyes:

Genuine security concerns in this kind of situation are understandable and an open door policy on refugees wouldn’t be necessarily very helpful for anyone; and while it may not actually make the threat of an attack somewhere worse, its reasonable to consider the risk that it might.

That said - especially given that Thanksgiving is around the corner which in essence marks a moment when a group of starving people pitched up in a place far from home and needed help from the locals (thank goodness the Puritans weren’t religious fanatics!) - a slightly more charitable attitude (though one tempered by prudence) might be called for…
In fairness, why are those who want proper vetting of refugees being called upon to espouse more chartiability, but those who essentially chastise those who want to see vetting for their own familiy’s safety not being called upon to show a greater concern for security of this nation and our families?

I don’t see many people being criticized for being indifferent to safety and security, but see plenty of criticism for those people assume are being unChristian because we not propose and open-borders, free-flowing solution. Let’s at least be balanced in our suggestion of attitude adjustments in both directions.
 
This article has some excellent points on the differences in how Christians and Muslims from Syria are being treated, both there, and in regards to being admitted here. afa.net/the-stand/immigration/2015/11/christian-refugees-and-muslim-refugees/

It also offers suggestions to help Muslims truly fleeing persecution, that do not require opening ourselves up to terrorists. It asks some valid questions such as: if Islam is a religion of peace, shouldn’t we be able to settle these 10,000 refugees in one of those 57 Muslim countries, which should, then, be very peaceful places?

And again: why is no one being chastised for lack of charity with regards to keeping out the Christian refugees? These people are watching their wives and daughters being raped and sold into sex slavery, or their sons being crucified in front of them. There is no threat of jihad from Christian refugees, yet we’re not letting them in, nor are we chastising anyone for being uncharitable for not letting them in.
 
In fairness, why are those who want proper vetting of refugees being called upon to espouse more chartiability, but those who essentially chastise those who want to see vetting for their own familiy’s safety not being called upon to show a greater concern for security of this nation and our families?

I don’t see many people being criticized for being indifferent to safety and security, but see plenty of criticism for those people assume are being unChristian because we not propose and open-borders, free-flowing solution. Let’s at least be balanced in our suggestion of attitude adjustments in both directions.
We already have quite a vetting process in place. According to this, it takes on average 18 mos to 2 yrs and just over 50% pass the screening process.

time.com/4116619/syrian-refugees-screening-process/
 
We already have quite a vetting process in place. According to this, it takes on average 18 mos to 2 yrs and just over 50% pass the screening process.

time.com/4116619/syrian-refugees-screening-process/
So why are those call for an effective screening process being chided to be more charitable, especially when the Director Comey and General Clapper have said the current process is ineffective? If a thorough-vetting process is reasonable, as we are told, in an effort to care for refugees, where is the need to be more charitable. The call should be for an effective vetting process, since one presumes they would then be welcome, which is the stance of most sitting governors.

Again, why is there not call from the “even-handed” posters to chide one side for being to unconcerned with family safety at the same time they chide the other side for needing more compassion? Perhaps they aren’t as even-handed as they claim? :rolleyes:
 
In fairness, why are those who want proper vetting of refugees being called upon to espouse more chartiability, but those who essentially chastise those who want to see vetting for their own familiy’s safety not being called upon to show a greater concern for security of this nation and our families?

I don’t see many people being criticized for being indifferent to safety and security, but see plenty of criticism for those people assume are being unChristian because we not propose and open-borders, free-flowing solution. Let’s at least be balanced in our suggestion of attitude adjustments in both directions.
Oh I think you misunderstand me! (Which is my fault; I shouldn’t write when I’m low on caffeine apparently!). This thread actually has been a model of the kind of charitable discussion (from both points of view) about the refugee crisis.

What I was primarily referring to, is the absurd tabloid-ish calls to accept no one (at least no one who is a Muslim), on principle - never mind the even more ridiculous (and I charitably must assume off-the-cuff) implication by someone who shall remain nameless (for I do not which to sully the thread) that all Muslims even ones with longstanding American citizenship (often from birth) are somehow under suspicion and ought to carry identification to that effect. That’s where the lack of charity lies!

And I’m quite sure when you MK and others (including myself) wonder about the risks associated with allowing many refugees into the country, it is a more level-headed consideration of pros and cons rather than knee-jerk insanity. I think the refugees are in need of help which many countries are in a position to give. However that does not necessarily imply right of abode, and might be taking action to ensure their safety and prosperity in situ. I’m quite sure not all of those clamouring for entry into Europe or other parts of the world in their heart of hearts want to be there - but for the sake of their own or their family’s safety, do not believe they have a choice.
 
Well actually the Holy Family were refugees. Remember when they went to Egypt? That wasn’t just to bone up on a few choice texts at the Library of Alexandria and have someone paint quick portraits of them doing goofy things in front of the pyramids. :rolleyes:

Genuine security concerns in this kind of situation are understandable and an open door policy on refugees wouldn’t be necessarily very helpful for anyone; and while it may not actually make the threat of an attack somewhere worse, its reasonable to consider the risk that it might.

That said - especially given that Thanksgiving is around the corner which in essence marks a moment when a group of starving people pitched up in a place far from home and needed help from the locals (thank goodness the Puritans weren’t religious fanatics!) - a slightly more charitable attitude (though one tempered by prudence) might be called for…
If we can vet them, there’s no reason to keep them out.
 
I’m glad it works for you and you have a home there but I could never become accustomed to such homilies. In fact it’s those types of homilies I heard in the Catholic Church in America, that finally became the final nail in the coffin for me when it comes to Catholicism. I heard a tough one once on the poor and I attended Catholic parishes a few more times, but for all intents and purposes that sealed the deal for me. I nearly walked out if I hadn’t been there for other reasons. Too right wing political for my tastes. And I will never look at my former faith the same again. We all have different experiences though and experience things differently. Peace.
I would expect that his type of homilies would be shocking to the everyday Catholic. I think that you have to be a traditional Catholic to truly appreciate his style. He says the Traditional Latin Mass and the people there love his homilies.
 
Bill O’Reilly said it best tonight: The liberals who basically want some version of open borders don’t care about the security of the American people. The refugee situation is a product of the mentality of the stonewalling of US policymakers on Kate’s Law as well as the existence of sanctuary cities.
I stopped reading after “Bill O’Reilly said”.
 
I would expect that his type of homilies would be shocking to the everyday Catholic. I think that you have to be a traditional Catholic to truly appreciate his style. He says the Traditional Latin Mass and the people there love his homilies.
What part of the country are you in? Which diocese, if it is not too presumptuous of me to ask…
 
He made us speechless the first few weeks we went to his Mass, but you become accustomed to his tough homilies. I’ve gone to his Masses for a year and he has not once preached something contrary to traditional Catholic teaching and often quotes Catechisms and Popes to support his positions.
Does the priest (and you) realize that he is contradicting most of the bishops? See cruxnow.com/church/2015/11/23/catholic-bishops-double-down-on-welcoming-syrian-refugees/

and the Pope :catholicnewsagency.com/news/refugees-are-gods-children-pope-says-in-wake-of-paris-attacks-27455/
 
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