Catholic stand point on refugees?

[Elizium23]

Does the priest (and you) realize that he is contradicting most of the bishops? See cruxnow.com/church/2015/11/23/catholic-bishops-double-down-on-welcoming-syrian-refugees/

It doesn’t matter. Policy on immigration is a point of legitimate prudential judgement. The USCCB often lobbies politically for certain causes based on Catholic doctrine and grounded in Church policy, but they seem to conveniently omit information about when these positions are “non-negotiable” (abortion, euthanasia, redefinition of marriage) or not.

Confiteor Deo’s priest is at liberty to dissent from other bishops and even Pope Francis on this issue if he feels strongly about it. And there is a strong undercurrent of Republican Catholics who are coming down on the opposite side of the immigration issue from what the USCCB and Pope Francis have been proposing. The question becomes this: are we basing our judgements in sound Catholic social doctrine, or are we playing partisan politics, and sticking by the Party Platform when we should be recognizing the voice of the Church as supreme over mere temporal concerns?

 

[Confiteor_Deo]

Does the priest (and you) realize that he is contradicting most of the bishops? See cruxnow.com/church/2015/11/23/catholic-bishops-double-down-on-welcoming-syrian-refugees/

and the Pope :catholicnewsagency.com/news/refugees-are-gods-children-pope-says-in-wake-of-paris-attacks-27455/

His entire homily that day was a refuting of a statement by a Bishop to let in the refugees. The Bishops said something along the lines of “no one should be barred from entering the country based off of religion” to which Father said was “quite frankly, absurd”. He told us what happens when the number of Mohammedans in a country is high (nuns that lived in such a country told a class of priests the horrors that happen, they were also against letting Mohammedans in) and I don’t want that to happen here.

As Elizium said, we don’t have to agree all the time with the Bishops if they are stating something that is debatable and not intrinsically evil. This is seen in the case of the death penalty and gun control.

 

[Sy_Noe]

His entire homily that day was a refuting of a statement by a Bishop to let in the refugees. The Bishops said something along the lines of “no one should be barred from entering the country based off of religion” to which Father said was “quite frankly, absurd”. He told us what happens when the number of Mohammedans in a country is high (nuns that lived in such a country told a class of priests the horrors that happen, they were also against letting Mohammedans in) and I don’t want that to happen here.

As Elizium said, we don’t have to agree all the time with the Bishops if they are stating something that is debatable and not intrinsically evil. This is seen in the case of the death penalty and gun control.

Yes although it is quite strange to me that when it comes to abortion or euthansia, Catholics see only God as having jurisdiction when it comes to ending life. But in the case of the death penalty, Catholics, especially the conservative ones, are quite fine with turning jurisdiction over to the state.

 

[Confiteor_Deo]

Yes although it is quite strange to me that when it comes to abortion or euthansia, Catholics see only God as having jurisdiction when it comes to ending life. But in the case of the death penalty, Catholics, especially the conservative ones, are quite fine with turning jurisdiction over to the state.

It is because abortion and euthanasia is the murder of innocent people while the death penalty is a participation in the justice of God through the execution of criminals that have given up their right to life through their crime. The death penalty is a right that the Church has always given to the state since God gifts the state a participation in His justice and it fosters the common good either by directly protecting others from being hurt or by setting an example.

It must be remembered that power was granted by God [to the magistrates], and to avenge crime by the sword was permitted. He who carries out this vengeance is God’s minister (Rm 13:1-4). - Pope Innocent I

The power of life and death is permitted to certain civil magistrates because theirs is the responsibility under law to punish the guilty and protect the innocent. Far from being guilty of breaking this commandment [Thou shalt not kill], such an execution of justice is precisely an act of obedience to it. For the purpose of the law is to protect and foster human life. - The Roman Catechism of the Council of Trent

Even in the case of the death penalty the State does not dispose of the individual’s right to life. Rather public authority limits itself to depriving the offender of the good of life in expiation for his guilt, after he, through his crime, deprived himself of his own right to life. - Pope Pius XII

 

[Sy_Noe]

It is because abortion and euthanasia is the murder of innocent people while the death penalty is a participation in the justice of God through the execution of criminals that have given up their right to life through their crime. The death penalty is a right that the Church has always given to the state since God gifts the state a participation in His justice and it fosters the common good either by directly protecting others from being hurt or by setting an example.

Oh I know why the Catholic Church says it is because. Although CCC 2267 certainly suggests that today, the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity are very rare, if not practically non-existent. Yet I see conservative Catholics ignoring that part of the CCC and supporting it in far more cases than very rare ones.

So to God, the lives of all human persons are not equally important and sacred and it should not be left to Him to determine their end? Innocent or not? Btw I seem to remember something else in the Bible about Jesus saying something to the effect of, sure you have heard an eye for an eye but…

In any case, I don’t want to continue discussing this here. But I believe God cares about the lives of all human persons born into this world, Syrian refugees included. Afterall, He created us all. Peace.

 

[Confiteor_Deo]

Oh I know why the Catholic Church says it is because. Although CCC 2267 certainly suggests that today, the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity are very rare, if not practically non-existent. Yet I see conservative Catholics ignoring that part of the CCC and supporting it in far more cases than very rare ones.

So to God, the lives of all human persons are not equally important and sacred and it should not be left to Him to determine their end? Innocent or not? Btw I seem to remember something else in the Bible about Jesus saying something to the effect of, sure you have heard an eye for an eye but…

In any case, I don’t want to continue discussing this here. But I believe God cares about the lives of all human persons born into this world, Syrian refugees included. Afterall, He created us all. Peace.

Traditional Catholic teaching cannot be contradicted by current teaching, so we have to view the Catechism in the correct light. Here is a good explanation that summarizes what Father told us in his homily along with another priest that I spoke with in private:

“Rendering the aggressor unable to inflict harm” is not positively presented as the sole criterion for imposition of the death penalty, but as only one element of “preserving the common good of society,” which certainly includes more than restraining future violence by the same criminal. Paragraph 2266 also teaches that commensurate punishment, redressing the disorder caused by the offense and expiation are legitimate purposes of penal law. Public authority—exercising the discretion I have already mentioned—“should” use bloodless means in place of capital punishment, but only if they would be sufficient to protect public order *and *the safety of persons, not simply the safety of persons. Thus, the 1992 CCC can be harmonized with the traditional teaching that the death penalty is a legitimate form of civil vengeance for grave crimes, not merely a form of societal self-defense. Can the Church Ban Capital Punishment?

The death penalty is not the revenge of some private party, but must “bring punishment not in hatred but in judgment, not incautiously but advisedly” (Pope Innocent III) and is only done by the legitimate state authority. If you interpret that saying from the Scriptures as condemning the death penalty, then it also condemns all punishments from the state. Revenge is not the same as judgment. The death penalty is advocated for by many traditional Catholics because of the very fact that it fosters life. It supports the common good by setting an example to other criminals. In modern prisons, inmates get to watch TV, eat three organic meals each day, exercise, go to the library, play video games, and so forth. I don’t see resort prisons as helpful in maintaining our safety from killers & rapists or from ensuring their conversion & rehabilitation. They are known to convert when death is imminent.

He did create us all. He created the murderers, rapists, thieves, and adulterers just as He created the saints. However, that doesn’t mean we should treat all of them the same and ignore the threats some pose to society. Pax tecum.

 

[claymcdermott]

Look, I think there’s a smart way to take in the refugees, and that we should do it in a smart, well screened, responsible way; and it will be better for everyone if we do it for a number of reasons.

But can I just say that I hate hate hate these conversations? What is the Catholic position on politics?

Well, according to Saint Omobonus, a 29.1% corporate tax rate, but a 5% capital gains tax with four tax exemptions on a flat tax on 15.43%, except on those making less than 25341.99 a year. VAT of 3.231%

And refugees, Jesus said that the Schengen rules were of the Old Covenant, and that we should have a screening process lasting 40 days and 40 nights, monitored by the United Nations, with a double-blind interview process.

Just be smart people. Jesus didn’t tell us what to do specifically. We are all gonna have to put the theocracy away.