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jmeyer3131
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Catholics don’t believe you can lose salvation accidentally, either.
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rr1213
Guest
Despite what some people may think, Lutherans do not hang on every word of Martin Luther or consider his sayings to be inerrant. Accordingly, the confessional documents of the Lutheran Churches are not the writings or sayings of Martin Luther per se but, rather, the agreements and statements set forth in the ***Book of Concord ***(of which only the Small and Large Catechisms were written by Martin Luther solely).
bookofconcord.org/
lcms.org/graphics/assets/media/LCMS/TrigBOC.pdf
bookofconcord.org/
lcms.org/graphics/assets/media/LCMS/TrigBOC.pdf
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jean8
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This morning I went to a Lutheran (Missouri Synod) education class with my wife. She grew up Lutheran and is wanting a refresher. I am Catholic and would classify myself as strong in my faith, but still have much to learn. Two main reasons why I plan on attending this class with my wife. 1) Since we are now “one” in marrigage, I want to learn some of the faith of my other “part.” 2) I feel it will strengthen my own Catholic faith. When a Lutheran teaching is discussed, I will investigate the Catholic teaching on the same issue. I would like to do a lot of the investigation on this forum. Does this seem reasonable, and would you all be willing to help me with questions I might have?
Today was the very first class. The Bible Alone was mentioned just in passing and so was OSAS. No questions were raised in my mind this morning regarding those issues. The pastor asked if anyone could explain what a Saint is. I definitely could have, but for whatever reason, I didn’t raise my hand. He went on to explain that a Saint is someone who lives a holy life, dies and then canonized by the Catholic Church. I raised my hand and added that the Catholic Church also teaches that anyone that makes it to Heaven is a Saint and that we should all strive to live saintly lives while on this Earth. He said okay. He went on to say that we should view ourselves as Saints already. In a round about way, he based this on OSAS.
The pastor quoted Leviticus 19:1-2 saying that when God said, “Speak to the whole Israelite community and tell them: Be holy, for I, the LORD your God, am holy”, that God wasn’t commandingus to be holy, but He was making us holy. Hopefully, I’ve articulated his point. Is the Catholic teaching the same as the pastors’?
Do you think this is a good idea for me to join my wife in this class? Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut.
-Greg****
greg,
Lutherans, (lcms) believe that anyone who truly believes in Jesus Christ as Savior will be saved,. regardless of denomination affiliation.
See, lcms.org/pages/internal.ASP?NavID=2968
Or go to www.lcms.orgDifferences with Catholics.
God bless,
jean8
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wmscott
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THE IMMACULATE CONCEPTION
Lk 1:28 - hail full of grace[highly favored] Lord is with you. Lk 1:30 - you have found favor with God
Lk 1:37 - for with God nothing shall be impossible. Gn 3:15 - complete enmity between woman & Satan, sin. Ex 25:11-21 - ark made of purest gold for God’s word.
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reen12
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This may well come from St. Paul. Colossians 1:
Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, to the holy ones and faithful brothers in Christ in Colossae: grace to you and peace from God our Father.
[emphasis mine]
As I recall, earlier translations used:
“…to the saints…”
reen12
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Psalter
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Odd that a Lutheran would consider John Paul II, since he isn’t even a saint in Catholicism.
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Contarini
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Are you sure you didn’t misunderstand? Lutherans do not historically believe in OSAS. The idea does filter in to a lot of American Protestant traditions, but I’d have thought the LCMS would be resistant to it.
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LJMiller
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I was raised in a Lutheran Missouri Synod home, baptised, Confirmed etc… Until 1989 when I converted to the Catholic Faith.
Personally, I don’t find a lot of differences besides married pastors and they don’t believe in confessions made to a priest.
For the most part even their mass is very similar to the Catholic Mass.
The family that raised me, I was adopted at birth, were 4th generation Wends who came to the US in 1854 and settled in Serbin, TX. At a family reunion their we attended the service held in the very first church building ever built in TX, (they were also the first Lutheran Missouri Synod in TX) and the church even looked appeared like most of the Catholic church’s I have been in. They were very formal and seeped in the traditions.
BTW Missouri Synod is one of the most conservative of all Lutheran Synods here in the US as well. They are very strict and formal.They have closed Communion (not a Lutheran, can’t receive it)
I look forward to reading your posts concerning the class you are attending. If you have any questions, please feel free. If I don’t know the answer I will find it.
Personally, I don’t find a lot of differences besides married pastors and they don’t believe in confessions made to a priest.
For the most part even their mass is very similar to the Catholic Mass.
The family that raised me, I was adopted at birth, were 4th generation Wends who came to the US in 1854 and settled in Serbin, TX. At a family reunion their we attended the service held in the very first church building ever built in TX, (they were also the first Lutheran Missouri Synod in TX) and the church even looked appeared like most of the Catholic church’s I have been in. They were very formal and seeped in the traditions.
BTW Missouri Synod is one of the most conservative of all Lutheran Synods here in the US as well. They are very strict and formal.They have closed Communion (not a Lutheran, can’t receive it)
I look forward to reading your posts concerning the class you are attending. If you have any questions, please feel free. If I don’t know the answer I will find it.
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jean8
Guest
1213,
Another teaching of LCMS about the teaching of Purgatory, see
lcms.org/pages/internal.asp?NavID=2215
May the Lord God guide your heart.
jenn8
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jean8
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miller,
It is important to keep in mind the differences of LCMS and ELCA.
The Lutheran church of America have very different rules concerning Holy Communion.
More on this later. I’m running late for church,
God bless,
jean8
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chworkman05
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The differences between the LCMS AND ELCA are vast and verry far appart. As in the Augsburg connfessions. There is a altered version and unaltered. The LCMS subscribes to the unaltered version that does not contain the retractions/edits of Philip Melanchthon after Luthers death. Also the LCMS and ELCA do not share a pulpit fellowship. One can not be a member of the LCMS and partake of communion in a ELCA church. From my understanding the ELCA does not believe in the true presens of Christ. Not to mention the ordinaion of women issue.
Not trying to ruffel to many feathers but to be “Lutheran” can be a awfull wide range and should not all be put under one banner.
p.s. Good luck in the LCMS learning in Luthernism. I am actualy on the opposite end. I am looking into the RCIA for learning more about the Catholic Church. I feel the LCMS under present leadership is a far cry from being correct in some areas.
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rr1213
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Thanks1213,
Another teaching of LCMS about the teaching of Purgatory, see
lcms.org/pages/internal.asp?NavID=2215
May the Lord God guide your heart.
jenn8
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Contarini
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Your understanding is incorrect, although they are looser on the subject than the LCMS.
Edwin
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chworkman05
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Also I have heard they share pulpet fellowship with Mehtodest. If this is true what is up with that. I have also talked with several family members who are ELCA and there understanding is it is left upto intrerpretation.
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jean8
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I just found this passage in the Bible of course,1213,
Another teaching of LCMS about the teaching of Purgatory, see
lcms.org/pages/internal.asp?NavID=2215
May the Lord God guide your heart.
jenn8
1Cor.3;15 Please begin at verse 12 . (Re: Purgatory)Guess where I read this… In Scott Hahn’ book “Rome Sweet Home.” I highly recommend this book, It’s a lovlely story about their Journey Home as Catholics like to refer this change.
The Hahns have a wonderful married relationship. Young folks could learn much from that topic alone.
God bless,
jean8
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Steadfast
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Dude,
If you’re in a Lutheran church which teaches OSAS, you’re not really in a Lutheran church.
But we have to be careful here; what was being taught?
An objective faith in the finished work of Christ and an acceptance of the idea that our righteousness is from Him and therefore we may not boast? Or was he actually teaching that believers cannot make shipwreck of their faith?
If you’re in a Lutheran church which teaches OSAS, you’re not really in a Lutheran church.
But we have to be careful here; what was being taught?
An objective faith in the finished work of Christ and an acceptance of the idea that our righteousness is from Him and therefore we may not boast? Or was he actually teaching that believers cannot make shipwreck of their faith?
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Contarini
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chworkman05
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Well to start with we can start with according to the Catholic
church there sacrament would be invalid due to no apistolic succession. Secondly they do not acknowledge the true presence in a direct way. Secondly they wellcome all denominations no matter what belief. So you could be sharing with someone who they drink to there own damnation. See 1corinthians 11:29, and they help contriblute to this.
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Contarini
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But Catholics say the same thing about Lutherans.
Not in as strong a form as Lutherans, no. A recent UMC statement on the subject is here. (See the top of p. 13, for instance.) I admit that it’s pretty vague, and that many Methodists aren’t aware of and/or don’t agree even with what this document says.
Well, we probably disagree on what “drinking to one’s own damnation” means. I wonder if Lutherans in Germany who insisted on the Real Presence but uncritically supported tyrannical rulers were not “drinking to their own damnation.”
I don’t think it refers to one’s theological beliefs about the nature of communion. I support the Methodist practice of offering communion to all Christians. The common Methodist practice of offering communion to everyone, baptized or not, is a different matter. Insofar as some liberal Methodists have no problem offering communion to non-Christians, this is a valid reason for you to question whether having intercommunion with Methodists is a good idea, because one has to ask whether those particular Methodists have any idea about what communion is. However, if you read This Holy Mystery and other official Methodist documents, you will see that the rationale for this practice is the view that the Eucharist can be a “converting ordinance.” It is not that people who have no faith in Christ are invited, but that people are invited to come to Christ in the Eucharist, and if they are not baptized they are to be baptized as soon as possible afterward. I have a problem with this practice, but I do not see it as a reason for not having intercommunion with Methodists. Arguably it rests on a very strong understanding of the sacrament as a means of grace–one that tallies well with Luther’s teaching.
Edwin
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rr1213
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My experience with the Episcopal Church was that the Eucharist was open to “all baptised Christians”. I had thought that was true also of the United Methodist Church, but it appears that the Methodists don’t even require that you be baptised? Am I reading you correctly, Edwin?
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