Catholic teacher under fire

[ProdigalSun]

Yes. It is sad to hear that St. John Bosco, whom I admire and still do, said those things. But, of course, the context was different then than it is now. In today’s context spreading what he said against Islam is not a good idea. I’m thinking even St. John Bosco in heaven agrees with reprimanding that teacher…maybe he is even behind it

Good and saintly people sometimes make wrong or negative (unwarranted, insensitive) claims and comments about people or their faith. Even saints aren’t perfect, and some were even great sinners before become saintly saints.

I remember a priest who made wrong and negative claims about women. And another one, about Martin Luther. I don’t think either of them, now surely in heaven, would want me or others to cite them making those claims. They, now that they know everything, would probably prefer we all forget them.

So now you know what St. John Bosco is thinking and what he would do. You really are an amazning person to have such insight!

 

[ProdigalSun]

Another thing re what St. John Bosco said – some untrue, some unnecessarily negative and insulting – if it amounts to something that could be a sin, but St. John Bosco didn’t realize it, then it would have been forgiven him when he went for confession.

As a priest explained it to me when I worried that I had perhaps forgotten some sins and had not confessed then, when one confesses it is a complete turning around of the person and all his/her sins are forgiven, even if they were not remembered and confessed.

So a person can still become a saint, even if they committed sins and even if they did not confess those particular sins, as long as they did eventually make a confession and were absolved.

That teacher, I think, would be wise to also go for confession, just in case what he did was a sin. And accept the reprimand and directive from his legitimate authority with humility, as we are called to do as Catholics. Obedience in all things, except sin.

Negative and insulting OK but Untrue??? Where do you see that?

 

[ProdigalSun]

A teacher handed out hate-propaganda to students and broke the law. Reprimanding this teacher is not “relativistic thinking” or “political correctness”, it’s enforcing the law and enforcing respect and freedom of religion.

If you want people to respect your religion, you have to respect theirs.
I imagine that if someone handed out information to students that called the Catholic faith “monstrous” and “ridiculous” you would expect the teacher to be under fire.

Or…do you only want fairness and respect for your own religion?



And you don’t think Christianity was forced upon people under violence and threats?
You don’t think Christianity took big chunks of Judaism to base it on and be it’s own?
That also made it “familiar” to new converts in hopes they would join.

The same can be said for many teachings included in the Christian canon and doctrines in Christianity.
But a teacher is not allowed to hand out literature in class spreading that viewpoint. If they did, I imagine you would complain.

.

Hate propaganda! breaking the law! hahaha are you serious! You need to brush up on the law a little bit there princess. I notice you love to exaggerate on many issues but this is just frightening!

 

[ProdigalSun]

This “SJW”? Given the way you’re using this abbreviation, it sure sounds like a “put down” and a “negative judgement.” A parent in the class was disturbed by this reading – and I would be too. In an era in which we’re being inundated with the message that all Muslims are violent, in support of terrorism or terrorists themselves, and a threat to our way of living, it seems exceptionally inappropriate to ignore the comments of the past four pontiffs and instead seek out a reading that disparages an entire people.

Inundated with all muslims are violent messages! please are you really serious!!! Do you think maybe it is possible this teacher didn’t mean any offence.

 

[ProdigalSun]

I suggest the MOds cancel this thread because it is inciting hatered of this decent young family man and teacher!

 

[gracepoole]

I suggest the MOds cancel this thread because it is inciting hatered of this decent young family man and teacher!

His being a “decent young family man” is completely irrelevant to his actions in the classroom.

 

[xNoOnex]

What class was this? What reason did the teacher hand them out to fifth graders? It’s been a long time since I was a fifth grader, but I can’t think of a valid reason why this would even come up as a discussion.

High school, yes. But not fifth grade.

I’m also not so sure it’s right to trust the accuracy of the reporting on this, from the original HuffPost to… Well, Jihad Watch. It’s hard to find truth, when organizations push agendas.

 

[Wedge_Antilles]

I guess we will know once the Diocese explains what their issue was. Were the materials offensive? Age-inappropriate? Deviating from established curriculum?

They haven’t clearly defined what the specific issue was, so it is hard to say whether it is justified. You may personally think it was age-inappropriate, but we have no way of knowing if that is the issue, because they haven’t said, and likely won’t. Why not, given the attention it has gotten?

 

[abucs]

I think that is fair enough. Kids can be easily orientated at that age and I would think that maybe by the age of about 14 children can start to assess bad aspects of history with more mature and balanced ability.

As someone who has taught 10 year olds who are generally upbeat and loving life I would not want to spoil that by introducing an emotionalising of them against a certain group of people which I fear at that age would happen.

I remember a Muslim child I was teaching at that age came up to me and told me that the children’s New Testament book on my desk was all lies. I simply thanked her for telling me that. A child’s own security and mental health is extremely important and adult concerns should not be put on them in my opinion.

That being said, in Catholic schools I am all for teaching good positive Catholic history to young students without of course purposely disparaging other groups.

There is so much to teach from that category and it is much more healthy to be positive.

 

[steve93]

I think that is fair enough. Kids can be easily orientated at that age and I would think that maybe by the age of about 14 children can start to assess bad aspects of history with more mature and balanced ability.

As someone who has taught 10 year olds who are generally upbeat and loving life I would not want to spoil that by introducing an emotionalising of them against a certain group of people which I fear at that age would happen.

I remember a Muslim child I was teaching at that age came up to me and told me that the children’s New Testament book on my desk was all lies. I simply thanked her for telling me that. A child’s own security and mental health is extremely important and adult concerns should not be put on them in my opinion.

That being said, in Catholic schools I am all for teaching good positive Catholic history to young students without of course purposely disparaging other groups.

There is so much to teach from that category and it is much more healthy to be positive.

That the new testament is truth is a fact. That Islam has tried to overthrow Christendom for a thousand years and has succeeded everywhere except fortress Europe is a historical FACT.

 

[billy15]

Well it’s a good thing I made no such blanket statement, and you’ve obviously misread my post if that’s what you’re accusing me of doing. I agree, to do what you described would be way too generalized a statement. But if you read my comment, I was specifically calling out Islam:

St. John is on target with his assertions that Islam is an amalgamation of religions, and presents ridiculous, even offensive doctrines. I cannot respect any religion that explicitly states that Jesus, my Lord, is not God, and that all who do claim Jesus is God are fools. I find THAT offensive, not what this teacher did, especially without knowing the entire story.

I know of no other religion that explicitly states the bolded except Islam. Other religions may not recognize Christ’s divinity, but they also don’t acknowledge the divinity of Zeus or Quetzalcoatl. These religions also don’t mention these deities as false deities because it would take too long to enumerate or they are not even really aware of such deities. Islam, on the other hand, regards Christians as “unbelievers” because of our belief in Jesus’ divinity and the Holy Trinity. This is why I do not respect Islam any more than I respect Arianism or Nestorianism. I agree with Hilaire Belloc in his The Great Heresies:

Mohammedanism was a heresy: that is the essential point to grasp before going any further. It began as a heresy, not as a new religion. [Mohammed] advanced a clear affirmation, full and complete, against the whole doctrine of an incarnate God…

Alone of all the great heresies [Islam] struck permanent roots, developing a life of its own, and became at last something like a new religion. So true is this that today very few men, even among those who are highly instructed in history, recall the truth that [Islam] was essentially in its origins not a new religion, but a heresy.

Consider what the Koran says and teaches about Christ our Lord and Christians:

Verily, the likeness of Jesus before Allah is the likeness of Adam. He created him from dust, then He said to him: “Be!” - and he was. This is the truth from your Lord, so be not of those who doubt. Then whoever disputes with you concerning him [Jesus] after all this knowledge that has come to you, say: “Come! let us gather together,- our sons and your sons, our women and your women, ourselves and yourselves: Then let us earnestly pray, and invoke the curse of Allah on those who lie!” (Sura 3:59-61)

O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was no more than an apostle of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His apostles. Say not “Trinity”: desist! It will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah. Glory be to Him: far exalted is He above having a son. (Sura 4:171)

They do blaspheme who say: “Allah is Christ the son of Mary.” But said Christ: “O Children of Israel! worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord.” Whoever joins other gods with Allah,- Allah will forbid him the garden, and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong-doers be no one to help. They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One Allah. If they desist not from their word of blasphemy, verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them. (Sura 5:72-73)

…the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; in this they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah’s curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth! (Sura 5:30)

So not only am I to be cursed in multiple places, but I am called a blasphemer and an unbeliever. I find this, the text of the Koran, to be offensive; not what this teacher did in Orlando. Was he misguided or did he act imprudently? Perhaps. But as I said, I don’t have all the details. The diocese hasn’t released all the details, so I’m not going to make a judgement on this man who otherwise proclaims Christ as God along with me and my family. What offends me is what is written in the Koran about my Lord and about my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ; not an incomplete picture the media has given us of this man’s actions.

 

[abucs]

That the new testament is truth is a fact. That Islam has tried to overthrow Christendom for a thousand years and has succeeded everywhere except fortress Europe is a historical FACT.

Well I am sure I would agree very much with your view of history.

The question for me was whether children of age 10 should be introduced in detail to so dark a subject.

btw,

Kerala in India, Ethiopia and Armenia did not succumb to Islam but yes I agree, much territory was violently overthrown.

 

[Crown_of_Stars]

A representative of the diocese called the teacher’s actions an “unfortunate exhibit of disrespect.”

Odd how we never see the word “disrespect” when we see Mary and Jesus being blasphemed against.

 

[gus]

Your usually pretty level headed but if your truly a Christian and the objective of life is salvation then it’s incumbent on you out of love to preach that Christ is the way, the Truth and the life. Those of us who don’t do this out a false ecumenism regardless of your position place your soul along with theirs at risk… Remember Popes have to be concerned for their flocks who live under constant threat.
I believe warning about proto Islamic though is explicit especially in John…
Do deny the explicit anti- Christian message of ISlam is plain ignorance and could be deadly.
Does that mean that every Moslem is bad ? (The majority of Moslems are cultural not ideological ,)of course not it means that we as Christian’s are obliged to not only continue to preach our message but provide an example. How can you say you have love if you don’t allow
someone the opportunity to know Christ.
The Huffington posts of the world objective is to silence us into a stupor.Its been an effective way to prevent Christian’s from teaching its truths.
Don’t be fooled by anyone who tells you otherwise.

 

[JimG]

Catholic teacher faces termination over presentation about Islam.
More developments.