Catholic Teaching and Immunization Policy

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Thanks for sharing that. I often wonder where some people get this idea that there is a correlation between autism and vaccines, I mean where is the control group who didn’t get vaccines for say 50 years and don’t show any rates of autism? how can they perform a correlation without a control group?
 
Laws requiring people to wear seat belts (which only help the person actually wearing them, not those around them) will cause some small number of people to die who otherwise would have survived accidents.

The government is perfectly within its rights to insist that people undergo a slight risk of death for the common good.
 
blackforest said:
You are correct that it is based on objections due to aborted fetal cell lines and not the consideration of risk. The latter I’m hoping to examine better from a Catholic stance.
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It is based in that sort of. The Vatican has already addressed that the use of the vaccines are not sinful:

http://www.immunize.org/talking-about-vaccines/vaticandocument.htm

I would say rather the the exception is based in the right of people to follow their conscience, which is also a very important principle. On the other hand, the right of a person to follow their conscience, the obligation, in fact, does not mean that one is should be made free of consequences from that decision, particularly where the conscientious objection on party puts other parties at risk. It is one thing to decide it is right to take the position for conscience sake to avoid some vaccines. It is quite different to say that I am doing this, and even though others may suffer or die, I want the same rights.

The issue is not whether vaccination should be mandatory, but should it be mandatory for participation with other children.
 
blackforest said:
Children have died because their physicians have misdiagnosed them, misunderstood medicine, or been flat-out negligent. Indeed, I’ve seen figures ranging from 90,000 to 400,000 Americans dying annually of medical negligence. That’s a few more than measles, (albeit without a fraction of the moral outrage directed toward measles outbreaks), wouldn’t you say? Some modicum of medical choice helps counter-act this effect.
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Do you think it does offset it, or make it worse? I would think the latter. Some attorneys lose court cases, yet representing yourself makes you more likely to lose. I am not an electrician. So while a careless electrician will sometimes cause house fires, having everyone wire their own house would be worse. Likewise, while malpractice exists, as well as proper medical practice which is far from perfect, I would think self-diagnosis and treatment would be more dangerous. If I wanted to second guess a doctor, I will not waste my money seeking his help based on his experience and expertise, however fallible it is.
 
Dan_Defender said:
Thanks for sharing that. I often wonder where some people get this idea that there is a correlation between autism and vaccines, I mean where is the control group who didn’t get vaccines for say 50 years and don’t show any rates of autism? how can they perform a correlation without a control group?
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The doctor who wrote that eventually lost his license to practice medicine. Essentially, he made it up.

Norway is the control group. Check out that documentary I referenced - it’s absolutely unreal.
 
AlNg said:
So if you get vaccinated, it means that you could have cells from aborted babies injected into your body? It is mentally distressing to know that in your body you are carrying around aborted baby cells.
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No, that’s not the case at all. That’s not how it works. Check my link from CHOP.

The cells are the incubator for the vaccine. It’s how the same cell lines have been used for fifty years.
blackforest said:
Are you now making the claim that vaccines are 100% free of severe risk? This is an extremely difficult, if not impossible claim to defend. But I’m interested in hearing your case for it.
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No, that isn’t what he said.

What he said was nothing is risk free but vaccines are very safe. There’s no corollary to that.
 
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Pup7 said:
No, that’s not the case at all. That’s not how it works. Check my link from CHOP.

The cells are the incubator for the vaccine. It’s how the same cell lines have been used for fifty years.
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Just like eggs are the incubator for the flu shot?
 
Yes.

The reason they tell people who are allergic to eggs to be aware of the flu shot is because it’s like any other allergy - it’s touched the egg, so antigens from the egg may be on the surface and elicit an allergic reaction. But plenty of people with an egg allergy get the shot - it just depends on how sensitive they are to the antigen.

Severe allergic reactions to flu shot are very rare. Most people with anaphylactic reactions to eggs (which are life threatening) just avoid the shot entirely.

An antigen is not “human baby cells”.
 
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I used to be one of those people who never got a flu shot until I got the flu and it knocked me down so bad. I’ve been getting the flu shot for the last 20 years and it works for me: come the winter plenty of people at the workplace get sick around me and I’m always fine.
 
I will agree with those that say it’s not 100% effective every year, but that’s not because of a conspiracy by the drug companies. It’s a phenomenon called viral shift, and we have no control over it.

This year they missed the mark…but I also read that this year flu vaccines were down and people were getting them late in the game. It takes about two weeks for the vaccine to become effective, and you show first signs and symptoms of flu up to seven days after exposure - so a lag time can be crucial.

I would not be surprised if there’s an initial shortage of flu vaccines next year - because I bet a lot more will go get them on time than what happened this year, if reports I read were accurate. Hopefully production will meet demand. So go get yours as soon as it’s available. 🙂
 
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There there is a great documentary called The Truth About Vaccines which is worth watching, it interviews doctors, pediatricians scientists and people connected to the CDC. You will never look at vaccines the same way again and begin to get informed on the issues and who and what to trust. It exposes the politics, the money, the multi-billion dollar industry and its relation to the CDC, the fudged statistics etc. These days when an industry backed by the powerful pharmaceutical lobby uses aborted fetuses to produce their products, and the price of their products includes a built in percentage to cover lawsuits, and then the hired talking heads and spindoctors who follow the media narrative to shame and discredit any serious research that questions their products and statistics. It makes one pause to become informed before one simply follows the beurocratic suggestions of the CDC. Here is episode 1 of a fascinating part series:
 
That is known to be antivaxxer propaganda. Just putting that out there.

This issue will always be a hot one because reliable and factual, peer reviewed information is always inevitably viewed as conspiracy theory.

So I’ll check out of the the thread.
 
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Pup7 said:
That is known to be antivaxxer propaganda. Just putting that out there.
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They are not against vaccines. so this means you have not watched it. Please watch it and then comment. Thanks
 
Gab123 said:
There there is a great documentary called The Truth About Vaccines
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Why would I trust anyone who can’t even get the word “Truth” right? Present evidence, even good evidence, as truth is the most pop, pseudo-scientific, sensational, and stupid use of the word. There is a ton of trash on the internet that appeal to the ignorant with easy answers. A lot of it gets posted here.

And no, I won’t watch it. I do not care if they are for vaccines, against vaccines, or somewhere in between. I do not watch propaganda, from the left or right, except occasionally for entertainment.

What I do not want is for children to suffer because of these people. Therefore, for those who insist on listening to them, at least they will be excluded from most schools and day cares.
 
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Pup7 said:
This issue will always be a hot one because reliable and factual, peer reviewed information is always inevitably viewed as conspiracy theory.
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That is why conspiracy theorists will always have a niche. That is why they do not do their work withing the professional framework of testing, verifying, replicating the work, and refining. No, YouTube is a better venue for them, as they can go to those outside of the profession for either monetary support or personal affirmation. I would bet there are more than this video says, but even hundreds of professionals who disagree, just like there are hundreds of ex-Starbuck employees who would like to rant against them, ex-spouses who rant against their ex, etc.
 
I haven’t watched the documentary, but I must have missed your post where you posted your proof/evidence/research that the series is propaganda?
 
I did not, and I am not going to. The point is, the internet is not the venue for scientific research, neither on YouTube or here. That is why I am not going to post it. At least I know for all the self-educated virologist here, their children will not interact with most others.

I know reading is hard, but one could go to the CDC and read about vaccines. If one things the CDC is controlled by some evil organization, then use another nation’s counterpart, or the APS or APA, or even a local physician, for goodness sakes.
 
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Smallpox, measles and polio were almost wiped out via vaccines.

Then some thought it was better not to vaccinate their kids and those diseases are on a comeback track.

They could care less about how they might spread disease to others.

Jim
 
pnewton said:
The issue is not whether vaccination should be mandatory, but should it be mandatory for participation with other children
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But that’s everybody. We all “participate” with other children, whether we’re raising them or encountering them at family reunions and public places.

Should the vaccine schedule be mandated for all adults, as well? Are your immunizations up-to-date?
 
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