Catholic Teaching and Immunization Policy

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blackforest said:
It’s a fair point and certainly the intent of national immunization programs. I think it would hold if vaccines are 100% safe and 100% effective. But alas, vaccines are not a black and white issue.

One case in point: The vaccinated children at our nearby school currently suffering from pertussis underwent the indemnified medical risk-taking of immunization without the benefits that it was supposed to confer. Worse, children in this situation are going to school thinking they have colds and spreading a vaccine-targeted illness from which they believed they were immune. Apparently, this is not uncommon. (Look up “pertussis” “waning immunity” in your favorite scholarly database). These is making me all the more cautious with my own vaccinated children.
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Do you know why vaccines are failing?

Non-vaxxers.

Look up what pertussis looks like. Then let me know if you want your child to suffer with it - or anyone’s child.
 
blackforest said:
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Pup7:
This issue will always be a hot one because reliable and factual, peer reviewed information is always inevitably viewed as conspiracy theory.
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A conspiracy is simply an agreement between two or more people to engage in unethical activity. This actually happens on a regular basis, especially via conflicts of interests, in the pharmaceutical industry. http://www.bmj.com/content/325/7358/249

http://www.theoneclickgroup.co.uk/d... in Vaccine Safety Research, Gayle DeLong.pdf

Conflicts of interests are not conspiracy theories. That doesn’t make all vaccine safety-affirming research in any way invalid, but healthy skepticism and critical thinking are certainly warranted.
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If you honestly believe the word conspiracy means
blackforest said:
an agreement between two or more people to engage in unethical activity
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then there’s nothing I can say to change your mind, and I won’t try.

But I will pray your children never become ill.
 
Yes, the problem is how the facts you are reading are being presented. at leastwatch this 4 minute segment on Fox News about the issues at stake. I’m interested in your response. See why you think: thanks


 
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I’m not trying to trap you, I’m trying to get your opinion on what Robert Kennedy said on the issue on the number of vaccines children are getting today and his view of the CDC. What is your reaction to what he said?
 
I am honestly about to head out the door to RCIA - I will watch it when I get home. You have my word.
 
Well, I did take the time to watch.

The amount of mercury in fish compared to vaccines containing thiomersal in no way comparative.

The proclamation that the Center for Disease Control and Prevention is in ‘ Big Pharmas’ back pocket seems a little over the top, but, at any rate are not supported by the figures he states.

The testing and approval process is overseen by the, in the US by the Food and Drug Administration. Fees charges food, drug, medical device, and vaccine manufacturers are determined by them.

John Oliver’s anti-fish comment, however, was just plain strange (humor).
 
And that’s where the other documentary I posted gets into. The amount of mercury in the combined vaccines dwarfs the amounts they warn are dangerous. The documentary is worth watching.
 
I believe I have seen this, but I will watch it. I did not include in the prior reply, many manufacturers are making and others are trying to reformulate vaccines with no thiomersal. Additionally, the different salts or forms of mercury have differing toxicity.
 
Then definitely watch this short video with Robert Kennedy going into the Thimerosol doses, very interesting:

 
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Thank you. I am aware of what Robert F. Kennedy’s view is. He is a pretty well known environmental attorney, author, and activist ( not a bad word).
 
Pup7 said:
Do you know why vaccines are failing?

Non-vaxxers.
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This actually isn’t true. First, as I demonstrated above, vaccination rates are high and stable. And at least for mumps, influenza, and pertussis, non-vaxxers have not caused vaccines to fail.

I don’t have time to post copious amount of links, but I’ll focus on pertussis.

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/20/4/13-1478_article

Researchers find first US evidence of vaccine-resistant pertussis

www.cidrap.umn.edu www.cidrap.umn.edu

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Prevalence and molecular characterization of pertactin-deficient Bordetella pertussis in the United States - PubMed

Pertussis has shown a striking resurgence in the United States, with a return to record numbers of reported cases as last observed in the 1950s. Bordetella pertussis isolates lacking pertactin, a key antigen component of the acellular pertussis vaccine, have been observed, suggesting that B...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov


I have plenty more but don’t wish to overwhelm anyone. Cheers!
 
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Pup7 said:
No, that’s not the case at all. That’s not how it works. Check my link from CHOP.

The cells are the incubator for the vaccine. It’s how the same cell lines have been used for fifty years.
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Did they use aborted fetuses to produce their products?
 
pnewton said:
I guess there might be some room for objection by a parent based on risk alone, but such a position should also forfeit any right to education with other children, be it in a public or private school.
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Hi pnewton,
Why should this be forfeit, in your opinion? Is it a protection issue? A punishment issue? Something else?
 
blackforest said:
Are your immunizations up-to-date?
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Yes. Some are required for my job, in fact. That is exactly the point, not that one cannot be in public. Rather, that a school has the right to ask all children how can be immunized to do so in order to attend. There are a handful of children that cannot for a valid medical reason have one or more immunizations. It is no different in principle than sending children home when they run a fever to protect other students.
blackforest said:
but I would encourage you to read a recent CAF thread on how to present a valid rebuttal.
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You miss the point, or actually, you illustrate it. Immunizations are a matter of medical science, not philosophy or theology. We have developed an internet mentality that science is a matter of argument and rebuttal. It is not. It is a matter of study, employing the scientific method. One rebuts science with science, like failing to replicate results (as in the autism study), finding flaws in the methods, or providing additional evidence, not by weaving theories. For example, the description of the video below contains one scientific accusation, and even that is iffy (the statistical criticism). The rest is little more that ad hominem( attacking the sources, not the science), good for the masses, bad for real science.
Gab123 said:
It exposes the politics, the money, the multi-billion dollar industry and its relation to the CDC, the fudged statistics etc. These days when an industry backed by the powerful pharmaceutical lobby uses aborted fetuses to produce their products, and the price of their products includes a built in percentage to cover lawsuits, and then the hired talking heads and spindoctors who follow the media narrative to shame and discredit any serious research that questions their products and statistics. It makes one pause to become informed before one simply follows the beurocratic suggestions of the CDC.
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If it were just a science video, then I am sure peers would be in a better position to review it and respond than anyone here.
 
At one time, giving medical advice was forbidden here, as a liability. I still think it is a risky proposition. With all the talk about risk free vaccines, I would like to add that medical advice is not risk free. Should you persuade some one who loses a child to a disease, would you not incur some of the guilt?
 
I watched the video you posted and read about the first few speakers. I didn’t find it very convincing or unbiased. I realize this has become an emotional topic, and will leave it to those interested in continuing.
 
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