Catholic Teaching and Immunization Policy

[Pup7]

Alas for your belief system, none of them were particularly horrific.

For you. They were not horrific for you. The absolute worst example of epidemiological or other medical evidence is the anecdotal type - but I’ll offer some anyway, since it’s a huge flip from your personal experience.

My brother had mumps twice. TWICE. Yes, it can happen. The second time, his scrotum swelled to the point he couldn’t even get pants on and my mother was told he would likely be sterile. As it is, despite years with no birth control, he had one child.

Polio vaccine was licensed in the United States in 1955. From 1951-1954, an average of 16,316 paralytic polio cases and 1879 deaths from polio were reported annually.

It has been eradicated in the US since the 1970s…because we vaccinate. My mother knew people in iron lungs as she was a young child during the last major epidemic in this country.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2012/10/16/162670836/wiping-out-polio-how-the-u-s-snuffed-out-a-killer

Measles vaccine was licensed in the United States in 1963. From 1958-1962, an average of 503,282 measles cases and 432 measles-associated deaths were reported annually.

And then there’s Hib, the thing they used to think caused the Spanish Flu back when the epidemic was occurring. The first Hib vaccines were polysaccharide products licensed in 1985 for use in children aged 18-24 months. Before the first vaccine was licensed, an estimated 20,000 cases of Hib invasive disease occurred annually, and Hib was the leading cause of childhood bacterial meningitis and postnatal mental retardation.
As of today, it has nearly been eliminated in the US.

But please, extoll the virtues of non-vaccination to the ignorant medical community.

So why did so many children die in the bad old days?

Are you describing the turn of the last century or conditions when you grew up? My mother, born in the 1930s, well remembers all that. My brothers born in the very early 1950s don’t. The late 1940s and 1950s were hardly the “bad old days” my grandparents (born in 1904, 1906, 1907 and 1917) well remembered.

 

[blackforest]

In 2010 74.2 million people were below the age of 18. That’s one big family, isn’t it?

It’s at that almighty “herd immunity threshold.” (Shrugging).

I feel like I’m constantly walking on eggshells. The wink was tongue in cheek because we were both throwing out anecdotes.

Given the state of CA, I don’t know that I’d borrow much of anything from them.

Including their new immunization policy . . .

 

[blackforest]

“Brace yourself”? LOL - for what, exactly? You’re in your late sixties; you actually aren’t even old to me. My mother is just about old enough to be your mother. My brother is only a few years younger than you. You’re hardly from “the old days”.

Upthread you had alluded to people in their 40s questioning the vaccine schedule because they don’t remember the Bad Old Days of vaccine-targeted diseases. That argument’s a bit of a wash because most of the vaccines on the schedule were added in my generation. (I was born in the 70s).

 

[Pup7]

Upthread you had alluded to people in their 40s questioning the vaccine schedule because they don’t remember the Bad Old Days of vaccine-targeted diseases. That argument’s a bit of a wash because most of the vaccines on the schedule were added in my generation. (I was born in the 70s).

So was I. I am a few weeks shy of 45. Wondering how old you thought I was now. And it’s not a wash.

The demographic that is hard-line anti-vax is around our age, as we were having kids when the autistic story was at its peak. I was 27. Look at the protests; look at the ages of many of the article writers and the book authors. They’re mostly our age - 50 and below.

Wanted to add that crazy family at my base wasn’t really an anecdote to illustrate anything. Just that I’ve encountered the extreme, and how insane it was. It was a story, not anything else.

 

[pnewton]

I’ve been researching vaccines for over 18 years and it is a fascinating topic. I’m continually shocked at the ignorance of medical professionals on the subject.

Was your career in medical research then?

 

[pnewton]

That argument’s a bit of a wash because most of the vaccines on the schedule were added in my generation. (I was born in the 70s).

I was in grade school (60’s) when they added the Rubella to our schedule. I still remember lining up in the hallway. I thought it was rather unfair as we already had our TB test for the year.

 

[Pup7]

The schedule exploded during the mid 1980s. My childhood vax record is short compared to what is given now. I was beyond that point by the time the list started to greatly lengthen.

 

[blackforest]

Wondering how old you thought I was now.

I wasn’t thinking about you when I said that.

Look at the protests; look at the ages of many of the article writers and the book authors. They’re mostly our age - 50 and below.

There’s a good reason for that. peaceful parenting: CDC Recommended Vaccine Schedule: 1983 - 2015 (I’m just posting this for the graphic - I haven’t read the article).

The older generation finger-wagging us about the good 'ol days has no idea what’s on our plate.

 

[Pup7]

It was a response to my post, so it did seem you were.

The older generation?

Fifty year olds are in our generation.

The older generation finger-wagging us about the good 'ol days has no idea what’s on our plate.

I’m a bit confused by that. I don’t see finger wagging from older folks at all - no more than any generation prior. Everyone blames the generation before and we all think we have it rougher. Rough is relative.

 

[Myles_Falworth]

This begs the question. Why do you believe the schedule “exploded?”. Could it be financial incentive from the pharmaceutical companies which drove this? Or was it a reaction to a real need?

 

[Gab123]

Exactly. There is a compensation fund set up to compensate families in a case where vaccination could be reasonably possible as a cause of death. No one is saying these things are impossible.

Not only possible, but quite possible; but the injuries are not all catastrophic. Though there are plenty of stories of brain injured children. The U.S. has the most vaccinations in the world, one would thing infant mortality rates would be the lowest in the world, but it’s simply not the case, And some studies show that the more vaccines increase infant mortality rates. Countries that had less vaccines had much lower infant mortality rates. Thus It’s one thing to get basic vaccines, it’s the giant leap in number of vaccines that is troubling.

 

[PetraG]

Not only possible, but quite possible; but the injuries are not all catastrophic. Though there are plenty of stories of brain injured children. The U.S. has the most vaccinations in the world, one would thing infant mortality rates would be the lowest in the world, but it’s simply not the case, And some studies show that the more vaccines increase infant mortality rates. Countries that had less vaccines had much lower infant mortality rates. Thus It’s one thing to get basic vaccines, it’s the giant leap in number of vaccines that is troubling.

What study shows a causal link between vaccinations and the infant mortality rate in the US? Produce it. I don’t believe it. Here is my evidence that your leap from correlation to causation is highly unlikely to be correct:

The problem with your assumption that vaccinations cause a higher infant mortality rate is that the infant mortality rate among those who have health insurance is far lower than those who don’t. That means that the babies getting those well-baby checks and vaccinations actually have better survival rates…not because of the vaccinations, say those who look at causes of death, but because of co-morbid factors such as lack of prenatal care, lack of compliance with SIDS-prevention guidelines, a higher prevalence of damaging habits such as alcohol, drug and tobacco use and an overall worse situation at home all the way around.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
(graph by Bobby Henderson)

 

[Gab123]

What study shows a causal link between vaccinations and infant mortality?

Yes, satistics can be formulated to get any results, and autism rates can be played with too, especially if it means the whole collapse of an industry through trillion dollar lawsuits. Go ahead, pump up on all the vaccinations. the fact is that the infant mortality rate in the US is much higher than other countries that have half the number of vaccinations. Are you saying countries like Sweden and France and Norway that have half the vaccinations and half the infant mortality rates are being irresponsible and should double the number of vaccines to match those in the U.S.? And the fact remains that there are no long term studies on the effects of all the cocktail of chemicals that are being injected into people, chemicals designed to tinker with the immune system. We do know that there is a plethora of cancers. I think there are plenty of stories of injuries, and plenty of scientist, doctors, researchers and pediatricians who have sounded the alarm, Just read the tiny warnings on pharmaceuticals products of all the potential side effects. I’m not against vaccines, I’m for vaccine safety.

 

[PetraG]

And the fact remains that there are no long term studies on the effects of all the cocktail of chemicals that are being injected into people, chemicals designed to tinker with the immune system. We do know that there is a plethora of cancers.

Cancer? You think vaccines are carcinogenic? Where on earth did you get that? Tell me: what cancer-causing agent do you know of that causes cancer at an exposure level similar to any agent that can be found in a vaccine? Name one. You may as well say someone got cancer because they smoked one cigarette. The people who work in the factories where they make the vaccines ought to be dropping like flies.

I would really like to know what possible reason you have to believe that vaccinations cause cancer.
Do you know what is in a vaccine? Do you know how a vaccine works?
You seem to have this idea that children are being injected with benzene or DDT or something. No, vaccines introduce attenuated forms of disease-causing agents. A normal person’s body is very elegantly set up to cope with contact of a lifetime of agents that elicit an immune response.

Do you have any evidence whatsoever that a vaccine comes even remotely close to taxing a child’s immune capacity? You don’t really think that a child who literally puts everything he can get his hands on immediately into his mouth cannot handle the introduction of the challenge of attenuated viruses to his immune system, do you?

I will remind you that there are “plenty of people” out there “sounding the alarm” about the Catholic Church, too. People sometimes have an ax to grind and they just make stuff up. I don’t know what your evidence is that vaccinations cause cancer. I know Andrew Wakefield lied about the link between vaccines and autism. For some reason, that instance of a scientist who lies doesn’t count for anything…oh no, only the scientists who advocate in favor of vaccines could possibly be lying. Andrew Wakefield? For some reason, he doesn’t count. Why?

It is one thing to decide not to vaccinate your child. It is quite another to make wild conjectures about risks as if no one has ever thought to look under the bed to see if there is a monster living under there or not.

Lots of children who used to die and who used to wind up in hospitals and come out deaf or impaired aren’t suffering that any more. The vaccines aren’t given for no reason at all. That is not to say there is no risk to them. I totally agree with looking at the information that parents are given about vaccinations, especially new ones. I do not agree with making wild conjectures about the nature of the risks or minimizing the risks that go with avoiding vaccinations.

 

[Gab123]

Cancer? You think vaccines are carcinogenic?

Realize that just about every vaccine package insert specifically states: "This vaccine has not been evaluated for its carcinogenic or mutagenic potentials or impairment of fertility.”

35 years ago children received up to 23 doses of eight vaccines. Today by the age of eighteen children receive as many as 69 doses of 16 different vaccines.

The huge increase in the growing vaccine schedule happens to coincide with huge rates of chronic illness in children, including cancer, which is now a leading cause of death by disease in children.

There’s is plenty of evidence that formaldehyde is a known carcinogen, yet millions of children receive injections containing formaldehyde. is it just a coincidence that formaldehyde has been associated with leukemia and that the number one cancer in children is leukemia?

 

[PetraG]

Realize that just about every vaccine package insert specifically states: "This vaccine has not been evaluated for its carcinogenic or mutagenic potentials or impairment of fertility.”

Yes, and it hasn’t been evaluated to see if it ever causes a child’s hair to turn purple, either.

You can’t make a causal connection with “happens to coincide”! It “happens to coincide” with increase in screen time–does that cause cancer? Do vaccinations lead to divorce?

You do realize that the leading cause of death by disease in children used to be the diseases that are now prevented in part by vaccinations, right?

The huge increase in the growing vaccine schedule happens to coincide with huge rates of chronic illness in children, including cancer, which is now a leading cause of death by disease in children.

"In 1900, 30 percent of all deaths in the United States occurred in children less than 5 years of age compared to just 1.4 percent in 1999 (CDC, 1999a; NCHS, 2001a). Infant mortality dropped from approximately 100 deaths per 1,000 live births in 1915 (the first year for which data to calculate an infant mortality rate were available) to 29.2 deaths per 1,000 births in 1950 and 7.1 per 1,000 in 1999 (CDC, 1999b; NCHS, 2001a).…

“In 1900, pneumonia and influenza, tuberculosis, and enteritis with diarrhea were the three leading causes of death in the United States, and children under 5 accounted for 40 percent of all deaths from these infections (CDC, 1999a). Today, only pneumonia (in combination with influenza) is among the top 10 causes of death overall or for children. Substantial declines in mortality have continued in recent decades. During the past 40 years, infant deaths due to pneumonia and influenza fell from 314 per 100,000 live births in 1960 to 8 per 100,000 in 1999 (Singh and Yu, 1995; NCHS, 2001b). As infectious disease mortality has declined in significance, unintentional and intentional injuries have emerged as leading causes of death, especially for children past infancy.”

PATTERNS OF CHILDHOOD DEATH IN AMERICA - When Children Die - NCBI Bookshelf

There’s is plenty of evidence that formaldehyde is a known carcinogen, yet millions of children receive injections containing formaldehyde. is it just a coincidence that formaldehyde has been associated with leukemia and that the number one cancer in children is leukemia?

Ah, formaldehyde. Not to freak you out, but your body produces formaldehyde. Inside you. Right now.
Yes, your body is putting more formadehyde into your system today and every day for as long as you live than you would find in a vaccine.

Formaldehyde is a side-product of your body’s production of DNA and amino acids, so your body has enzymes that break it down:

https://mrc.ukri.org/news/browse/toxic-formaldehyde-is-produced-inside-our-own-cells/

The amount of formaldehyde would remain in a vaccine is very small compared to what a body makes every day, not at all like the amounts a worker might be exposed to in an industrial setting where it is a concern.

 

[pnewton]

Yes, and it hasn’t been evaluated to see if it ever causes a child’s hair to turn purple, either.

Your post here has not been properly evaluated for its effect on global warming.

The problem with logic fallacies is that it is like a game of rumors. They evolve on the internet from speculation, to evidence, to proof. I see you have addressed this one rather well.

 

[Gab123]

Yes, and it hasn’t been evaluated to see if it ever causes a child’s hair to turn purple, either.

You can’t make a causal connection with “happens to coincide”!

You don’t want to start sounding like the OJ Simpson defense dream team who came up with a dismissive explanation for every piece of evidence presented. It is scientists, doctors, pediatricians and researchers who are the ones raising the alarms. Furthermore the short-term health effects of formaldehyde exposure are well known, but much less is known about its potential long-term health effects. Studies have showed that exposure to formaldehyde caused nasal cancer in rats. and it was the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) that classified formaldehyde as a probable carcinogen-

Aluminum is also used as an adjuvant in human vaccines to boost immune response and the FDA limits the dosage to 0.85 milligrams per vaccine to minimize exposure; but children receive other vaccines at the same time that also contain aluminum, while the American Academy of Pediatrics confirms that aluminum interferes with many cellular and metabolic processes in the body’s nervous system. Repeated exposure to aluminum can have damaging effects and yet children receive repeated injections with today’s aggressive vaccine schedule. And Aluminum is also widely associated with breast cancer…

I don’t want to spend my time or your time going in circles. Do what you think is best for you and your family, but become informed before you just fill your body with chemicals just because the government recommends it…

 

[PetraG]

Your post here has not been properly evaluated for its effect on global warming.

At least it is easy to make a causal connection between what I say and the heating of the surrounding air on mechanistic grounds, LOL.

 

[blackforest]

Yes, and it hasn’t been evaluated to see if it ever causes a child’s hair to turn purple, either.

I get that cause doesn’t equal correlation, but enough logical correlations -purple-haired pirates need not apply - are enough to warrant investigations that aren’t happening to the degree that they should.