Catholic Teaching and the Paranormal

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I once had a professor jokingly state that there was only one way to know “how” we would understand without a body…to die.

He didn’t get a lot of laughs.

Aquinas does some amazing philosophizing on the subject, and I would have to refresh my memory, but he makes distinctions between sensible species and intelligible species within the mind.

For instance, we have all heard of people having strokes and losing short term memory. So, when we no longer have the brain, what memories would we have and how would we have them? Aquinas seems to think that the universal species of things would be retained, but sense memories would disippate. This came up in a class one time so I asked the question, “How will I remember my wife when I’m dead?”

Obviously there are personal relations going on there, but will I only remember the concept “wifehood” or would I remember my own personal wife? If I read Aquinas correctly, I would only know the concept, but then again, how do we know the universal of a particular person? Tied as we are to the imagination for understanding, it really gets tricky. My personal supposition is that the personalities of our loved ones is somehow conceptualized in a non-sense reliant way. It is somehow intelligibilized.

Really though, think about it. When you think about your mother, do you draw an image of her in your mind. If that imaginary function is taken away, how do you think of your mother? I would imagine as a nurturing being? How does one intelligibilize that? You can really see why Aquinas held the resurrection in high esteem, because (outside of the obvious) the body was how he tied down personal immortality – even going so far (I believe) as saying that without the resurrection he would have a difficult time believing personal immortality!

Anyway, I’m totally derailing this thread 😊. But maybe there is a way to improve upon what Aquinas had to say with a drop of “personalism” or maybe even phenomonology, as you mentioned.
I’d definitely be out of my depth to speculate any further. 😉 I’ve only taken a few philosophy classes, one of which was partially phenomenology, so I’m not really qualified.
However, I think if a Catholic were sufficiently motivated, he could find a very robust defense of religion in phenomenology. That’s maybe wishful thinking on my part, but the universality of religious experience must mean something, and maybe that something is Truth, rather than man’s personal search for meaning.

Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut! 👍
 
Indeed.
I only bring up the nature of Satan in transition to my next (more important) point. We know that God grants certain ‘abilities’ to various people for a variety of reasons, i.e. legitimate charismatics and the saints. The purpose of course is to strengthen the Church Militant, and this is accomplished in too many reasons to name at the moment. We also know that Satan delights in blaspheming by imitating and perverting God’s own actions, e.g. the black mass.
Therefore it is perfectly reasonable (and in fact part of Scripture [the Witch of Endor]) to recognize that Satan also grants certain powers to individuals in a subtle attack on their souls and the souls of others. Satan’s powers open doorways to the demonic, like the necromancer who trades his own soul, the ‘perfectly possessed’, who gives a demonic entity free reign in his soul, and these powers also harm others, for instance through curses and hexes (Fr. Amorth uses the broad term malefices), which can cause demonic oppression and obsession and harassment in perfectly innocent people.
These actions of course are ‘allowed’ to occur through God’s permissive will, but naturally that doesn’t negate their absolute and unquestionable evil. If a child is born of incestuous rape, then the child of course is a great blessing, but the rape is still hideous unmitigated evil. The same is true of demonic acts. They are purely evil, though God in His omnipotence can take good even out of that. In fact if we like we can even see magic as Satan’s rape of the practitioner. He violates the deepest levels of their soul and leaves a part of himself there, and every subsequent evil wrought of that magic is further violations of humanity by Satan’s evil.
Gotcha…wasn’t meaning to start an argument. I’ve just recently been reading through Thomas’ De Malo and was dying to talk about the subject and what I’ve learned 😃

Really though, the paranormal has always fascinated me…not to the point of curiosity or doing anything sacreligious. In fact, I once asked a priest about my fascination with ghost shows and whether I should limit it. He said, “Your fascination is not sinful. It’s like watching someone kick a cat or do something stupid, You are not partaking of the activity, just watching them be fools.” He was wise priest, so I continued to watch those shows only to try and gain an added understanding of what is going on with the spirits in question.

As with everything modern, it seems people are either complete skeptics, or total believers. They either won’t criticize the claims of psychics doling out demonic advice, or they won’t listen believe what they have to say at all. I noticed there was not a lot of philosophical scrutiny of claims made by spiritualists and ghost hunters, etc. I actually started to write book on the philosophical justification/demonstrations (mostly following Thomas) on such claims, but got side tracked and haven’t worked on it for some time. (Maybe I’ll get back to it now that you’ve re-peaked my interest.)

And I really think uncovering the mysteries of our existence is in our nature’s. Nothing wrong with asking questions and seeking answers, as long as it’s done the right way and in communication with the right people/beings. (i.e. God, the saints, and holy one’s on earth and not future predicting palm reading servants of devils.)

I think we need to cast off the drab materialism of our day and reclaim some foothold for essences behind the senses, BUT it also needs to be looked at in a reasonable way…so I’m glad you started this thread.
 
I’m sorry, but already we’re in heterodox territory. In his fall, Satan rejected everything that was of God. He does not do God’s will; he rebels against it.
Did the events of Job happen before the rebellion? If so, how does Satan’s role differ now from his role in Job?
God, we know, can make good come out of evil, but that doesn’t make the evil any less than evil.
God permits evil to occur.
Satan was made as the greatest of the angels. God does not reject His own creation, so Satan retains his created nature, but in his definitive rejection of God, he cast out of heaven and into hell. Since his rejection was absolute, there is no hope left that he might do anything redeeming or ‘good’.
God did have foreknowledge of Satan’s rebellion though, didn’t he?
As for miracles, God’s laws are the laws of nature. Do you believe that any of the saints or the apostles were able to literally raise the dead? How about heal deadly sicknesses? Fly? Bilocate?
No, probably not. But if they were it was through natural means only. If God wanted crops to grow, he would still do so through rain and sunshine.
Last, but not least, do you know about the Witch of Endor?
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3Now Samuel was dead, and all Israel mourned for him, and buried him in Ramatha his city. And Saul had put away all the magicians and soothsayers out of the land.
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4And the Philistines were gathered together, and came and camped in Sunam: and Saul also gathered together all Israel, and came to Gelboe.
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5And Saul saw the army of the Plilistines, and was afraid, and his heart was very much dismayed.
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6And he consulted the Lord, and he answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by priests, nor by prophets.
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7And Saul said to his servants: Seek me a woman that hath a divining spirit, and I will go to her, and inquire by her. And his servants said to him: There is a woman that hath a divining spirit at Endor.
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8Then he disguised himself: and put on other clothes, and he went, and two men with him, and they came to the woman by night, and he said to her: Divine to me by thy divining spirit, and bring me up him whom I shall tell thee.
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9And the woman said to him: Behold thou knowest all that Saul hath done, and how he hath rooted out the magicians and soothsayers from the land: why then dost thou lay a snare for my life, to cause me to be put to death?
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10And Saul swore unto her by the Lord, saying: As the Lord liveth there shall no evil happen to thee for this thing.
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11And the woman said to him: Whom shall I bring up to thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel.
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12And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried out with a loud voice, and said to Saul: Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul.
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13And the king said to her: Fear not: what hast thou seen? And the woman said to Saul: I saw gods ascending out of the earth.
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14And he said to her: What form is he of? And she said: An old man cometh up, and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul understood that it was Samuel, and he bowed himself with his face to the ground, and adored.
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15And Samuel said to Saul: Why hast thou disturbed my rest, that I should be brought up? And Saul said, I am in great distress: for the Philistines fight against me, and God is departed from me, and would not hear me, neither by the hand of prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest shew me what I shall do.
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16And Samuel said: Why askest thou me, seeing the Lord has departed from thee, and is gone over to thy rival:
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17For the Lord will do to thee as he spoke by me, and he will rend thy kingdom out of thy hand, and will give it to thy neighbour David:
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18Because thou didst not obey the voice of the Lord, neither didst thou execute the wrath of his indignation upon Amalec. Therefore hath the Lord done to thee what thou sufferest this day.
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19And the Lord also will deliver Israel with thee into the hands of the Philistines: and to morrow thou and thy sons shall be with me: and the Lord will also deliver the army of Israel into the hands of the Philistines.
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20And forthwith Saul fell all along on the ground, for he was frightened with the words of Samuel, and there was no strength in him, for he had eaten no bread all that day.
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21And the woman came to Saul (for he was very much troubled) and said to him: Behold thy handmaid hath obeyed thy voice, and I have put my life in my hand: and I hearkened unto the words which thou spokest to me.
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22Now therefore hear thou also the voice of thy handmaid, and let me set before thee a morsel of bread, that thou mayest eat and recover strength, and be able to go on thy journey.
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23But he refused, and said: I will not eat. But his servants and the woman forced him, and at length hearkening to their voice, he arose from the ground and sat upon the bed.
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24Now the woman had a fatted calf in the house, and she made haste and killed it: and taking meal kneaded it, and baked some unleavened bread,
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25And set it before Saul, and before his servants. And when they had eaten they rose up, and walked all that night.
Just mumbo jumbo and superstition right? To heck with Scripture. If we’re going to be heterodox, might as well go all the way, yeah? Lemme know what you name your new church.
There is a lot of superstition in the Old Testament. I do not believe, for example, that there was a man who summoned bears to kill a group of children because they called him bald or whatever. That’s not to say it didn’t happen, but it’s definitely not something I believe because there is no evidence for it.
 
I always find it strange that there are Christians who refuse to believe that ghosts exist because it is too far fetched!

I mean if you already believe in the soul, the existence of ghosts should be seen as proof of God.
 
I always find it strange that there are Christians who refuse to believe that ghosts exist because it is too far fetched!

I mean if you already believe in the soul, the existence of ghosts should be seen as proof of God.
So does saying that ghosts exist make it so? No, of course not. The evidence for ghosts is sorely lacking, and furthermore, I am not of the attitude that I need to believe something without evidence just because it happens to be convenient to myself or my religion.

It would be convenient to steal someone’s wallet if they it behind after a house party, surely, but that doesn’t mean I’m going to do it. You know?
 
Did the events of Job happen before the rebellion? If so, how does Satan’s role differ now from his role in Job?

God permits evil to occur.

God did have foreknowledge of Satan’s rebellion though, didn’t he?

No, probably not. But if they were it was through natural means only. If God wanted crops to grow, he would still do so through rain and sunshine.

There is a lot of superstition in the Old Testament. I do not believe, for example, that there was a man who summoned bears to kill a group of children because they called him bald or whatever. That’s not to say it didn’t happen, but it’s definitely not something I believe because there is no evidence for it.
So then let’s just be clear: you are, in essence, denying the literal sense of miracles? You are saying that they likely did not happen, but if they did it was by natural means, and nothing supernatural/preternatural?
Does that extend to Biblical miracles, such as those recorded in Acts, or is it just afterwards?
Lastly, would you then say that the presence of miracles is irrelevant during the cause for sainthood of a person, for instance Padre Pio?

I’ll give you a hint: only one answer is legitimately Catholic. You don’t want to hear that, but it’s God’s own truth.
 
Ok, this is a huge topic Nihil, so I hope you understand that if my replies are complex it is not because I am trying to lead you in circles, but this is IMO, not something to be casual about.
So then let’s just be clear: you are, in essence, denying the literal sense of miracles?
It depends what you mean by the word miracle. I don’t know in what sense you are using the word.
You are saying that they likely did not happen, but if they did it was by natural means, and nothing supernatural/preternatural?
Well let’s take the water to wine conversion for example. Historically, that is, with the use of the historical method, this event can never be rendered likely. Using the principle of analogy, we see that no such events occur today. So methodologically, we cannot arrive at the conclusion that this event was likely using the historical method.

What we can say, for example, is that the entirety of Christian belief for which there is vast evidence is enough to render the event probable as a matter of faith. But in and of itself, no.

Comparing this with something such as the talking snake in the garden, we have a couple of things going on here: first, historically, we cannot render it probable just as with the water into wine conversion. This would differ from the conversion to me, however, since we have good reason to believe it is allegorical and symbolic rather than historical because of the type of story involved - this story explains why man hates snakes. It is rather similar in that sense to other mythological tales like that of the Greek story of Arachne, who was turned into a spider because she enjoyed weaving. Further, since the talking snake is not a fundamental piece of Christian belief, we cannot justify it through faith and the evidence for the faith.
Does that extend to Biblical miracles, such as those recorded in Acts, or is it just afterwards?
Yes, let’s move back to the natural means vs. supernatural means part of the discussion. Let me discuss the risen Christ for a moment here. In my view, miracles can only occur naturally. What this would mean for the risen Christ is that if he was risen in human bodily form, it would mean his heart was pumping and blood was flowing through his veins.
Lastly, would you then say that the presence of miracles is irrelevant during the cause for sainthood of a person, for instance Padre Pio?
I do not concern myself with what constitutes a saint and what does not. It is just not a subject that I know much about nor care to analyze at the moment. The only thing I would add about it is that obviously anyone who does good works in the name of the Lord is a person that I respect.
 
So does saying that ghosts exist make it so? No, of course not. The evidence for ghosts is sorely lacking, and furthermore, I am not of the attitude that I need to believe something without evidence just because it happens to be convenient to myself or my religion.
You misunderstand me - I took issue with those who believe in the soul but reject the possibility of ghosts.

I personally don’t know for myself whether they do exist, since I’ve never experienced one myself - but there are a lot of people who claim to have across all cultures - it is not something like belief in pixies or UFO abduction claims which are quite localised to a particular society or culture.

They do say there’s no smoke without a fire.
 
Ok, this is a huge topic Nihil, so I hope you understand that if my replies are complex it is not because I am trying to lead you in circles, but this is IMO, not something to be casual about.

It depends what you mean by the word miracle. I don’t know in what sense you are using the word.

Well let’s take the water to wine conversion for example. Historically, that is, with the use of the historical method, this event can never be rendered likely. Using the principle of analogy, we see that no such events occur today. So methodologically, we cannot arrive at the conclusion that this event was likely using the historical method.

What we can say, for example, is that the entirety of Christian belief for which there is vast evidence is enough to render the event probable as a matter of faith. But in and of itself, no.

Comparing this with something such as the talking snake in the garden, we have a couple of things going on here: first, historically, we cannot render it probable just as with the water into wine conversion. This would differ from the conversion to me, however, since we have good reason to believe it is allegorical and symbolic rather than historical because of the type of story involved - this story explains why man hates snakes. It is rather similar in that sense to other mythological tales like that of the Greek story of Arachne, who was turned into a spider because she enjoyed weaving. Further, since the talking snake is not a fundamental piece of Christian belief, we cannot justify it through faith and the evidence for the faith.

Yes, let’s move back to the natural means vs. supernatural means part of the discussion. Let me discuss the risen Christ for a moment here. In my view, miracles can only occur naturally. What this would mean for the risen Christ is that if he was risen in human bodily form, it would mean his heart was pumping and blood was flowing through his veins.

I do not concern myself with what constitutes a saint and what does not. It is just not a subject that I know much about nor care to analyze at the moment. The only thing I would add about it is that obviously anyone who does good works in the name of the Lord is a person that I respect.
Your historical-critical exegesis strays into Protestant territory. I recall Pope Benedict writing in the first part of Jesus of Nazareth about how the purely historical-critical method is completely lacking as a means to come to faith, as it works from secular biases and assumptions to come to secular conclusions. To put it bluntly, it is the Bible divorced from faith.
What is the Eucharist then? It certainly doesn’t fit with the materialist scientific view of the world. Is that a ‘natural’ miracle (whatever that means). Do you believe that the Eucharist really, substantially becomes the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ? Why believe that this is possible with God, and not making some lowly saint heal or fly?

From the Catholic Encyclopedia:

Throughout the course of church history there are miracles so well authenticated that their truth cannot be denied.

Thus St. Clement of Rome and St. Ignatius of Antioch speak of the miracles wrought in their time.
Origen says he has seen examples of demons expelled, many cures effected, and prophecies fulfilled (Against Celsus I, II, III, VII).
Irenaeus taunts the magic-workers of his day that “they cannot give sight to the blind nor hearing to the deaf, nor put to flight demons; and they are so far from raising the dead as Our Lord did, and the Apostles, by prayer, and as is most frequently done among the brethren, that they even think it impossible” (Against Heresies II).
St. Athanasius writes the life of St. Anthony from what he himself saw and heard from one who had long been in attendance on the saint.
St. Justin in his second apology to the Roman Senate appeals to miracles wrought in Rome and well attested.
Tertullian challenges the heathen magistrates to work the miracles which the Christians perform (Apol., xxiii);
St. Paulinus, in the life of St. Ambrose, narrates what he has seen.
St. Augustine gives a long list of extraordinary miracles wrought before his own eyes, mentions names and particulars, describes them as well known, and says they happened within two years before he published the written account (City of God XXI.8; Retract., I, xiii).
St. Jerome wrote a book to confute Vigilantius and prove that relics should be venerated, by citing miracles wrought through them.
Theodoret published the life of St. Simon Stylites while the saint was living, and thousands were alive who had been eyewitnesses of what had happened.
St. Victor, Bishop of Vita, wrote the history of the African confessors whose tongues had been cut out by command of Hunneric, and who yet retained the power of speech, and challenges the reader to go to Reparatus, one of them then living at the palace of the Emperor Zeno.
From his own experience Sulpicius Severus wrote the life of St. Martin of Tours.
St. Gregory the Great writes to St. Augustine of Canterbury not to be elated by the many miracles God was pleased to work through his hands for the conversion of the people of Britain.

…but of course, they were just backwards, superstitious old fools; not nearly as enlightened as we are today. Poor ignorant Fathers of the Church. Too bad they didn’t understand God like you do.
 
Your historical-critical exegesis strays into Protestant territory. I recall Pope Benedict writing in the first part of Jesus of Nazareth about how the purely historical-critical method is completely lacking as a means to come to faith, as it works from secular biases and assumptions to come to secular conclusions. To put it bluntly, it is the Bible divorced from faith.
The way that you’re using the word faith in this context, it sounds as if you’re saying that the definition of faith is belief without reason. Is this accurate?
What is the Eucharist then? It certainly doesn’t fit with the materialist scientific view of the world. Is that a ‘natural’ miracle (whatever that means). Do you believe that the Eucharist really, substantially becomes the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ?
Does the Eucharist become the Body of Christ in a scientific way? Clearly, it does not. You can look under a microscope and there is no scientifically detectable change. No doubt the Church does not claim that the Body of Christ changes in this manner.

So when you are asking me whether the Eucharist becomes the Body of Christ, I must clarify your question further. Does it become the Body of Christ in what sense?
Why believe that this is possible with God, and not making some lowly saint heal or fly?
Do you believe that the entirety of the Bible is literally true? It would help a bit to know.
…but of course, they were just backwards, superstitious old fools; not nearly as enlightened as we are today. Poor ignorant Fathers of the Church. Too bad they didn’t understand God like you do.
Most of these individuals were brilliant. It does not mean that they were never mistaken.

Regarding the issue of demonic possession for example, it made perfect sense for the Church fathers to chalk up all mental illnesses as demonic possession. In those cases, they were clearly wrong - at least in a literal sense, not in a spiritual sense.

I know this will stun you, but I do not see anything controversial in this statement. We know - and as Catholics we believe in progressive revelation. The Bible contains no passages that genuinely condemn slavery, but do we believe that slavery contradicts the will of the Lord? Unless you want to be the first to raise an objection then yes, absolutely we do. The Bible mentions nothing of abortion. But do we believe that the will of the Lord condemns abortion? Unless you want to be the first to raise an objection then yes, absolutely we do.

God speaks to us in the manner in which we are fit to understand. God did not need to condemn monarchism, we need to learn and grow out of it.

By learning, we as a species and as a Church grow closer to God. Learning through science, reason and observation about the world the Lord has created is not a threat, it is a tremendous gift. As Catholics, we come from a long line of scientists and philosophers. This is a continuing tradition.
 
The way that you’re using the word faith in this context, it sounds as if you’re saying that the definition of faith is belief without reason. Is this accurate?

Does the Eucharist become the Body of Christ in a scientific way? Clearly, it does not. You can look under a microscope and there is no scientifically detectable change. No doubt the Church does not claim that the Body of Christ changes in this manner.

So when you are asking me whether the Eucharist becomes the Body of Christ, I must clarify your question further. Does it become the Body of Christ in what sense?

Do you believe that the entirety of the Bible is literally true? It would help a bit to know.

Most of these individuals were brilliant. It does not mean that they were never mistaken.

Regarding the issue of demonic possession for example, it made perfect sense for the Church fathers to chalk up all mental illnesses as demonic possession. In those cases, they were clearly wrong - at least in a literal sense, not in a spiritual sense.

I know this will stun you, but I do not see anything controversial in this statement. We know - and as Catholics we believe in progressive revelation. The Bible contains no passages that genuinely condemn slavery, but do we believe that slavery contradicts the will of the Lord? Unless you want to be the first to raise an objection then yes, absolutely we do. The Bible mentions nothing of abortion. But do we believe that the will of the Lord condemns abortion? Unless you want to be the first to raise an objection then yes, absolutely we do.

God speaks to us in the manner in which we are fit to understand. God did not need to condemn monarchism, we need to learn and grow out of it.

By learning, we as a species and as a Church grow closer to God. Learning through science, reason and observation about the world the Lord has created is not a threat, it is a tremendous gift. As Catholics, we come from a long line of scientists and philosophers. This is a continuing tradition.
“it sounds as if you’re saying that the definition of faith is belief without reason. Is this accurate?”

That is incorrect.

“Does the Eucharist become the Body of Christ in a scientific way? Clearly, it does not. You can look under a microscope and there is no scientifically detectable change. No doubt the Church does not claim that the Body of Christ changes in this manner.”

So when you are asking me whether the Eucharist becomes the Body of Christ, I must clarify your question further. Does it become the Body of Christ in what sense?"
Do you understand the scholastic distinction between accident and substance? I recall being quite clear that the bread and wine become substantially the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ.

“Do you believe that the entirety of the Bible is literally true? It would help a bit to know.”

I interpret the Bible in the same way as the Church, which is more than can be said for you.

“Most of these individuals were brilliant. It does not mean that they were never mistaken.”

Do you have a basic understanding of how Tradition (note the large T) comes to be accepted as infallible? The unanimous consensus of the Patristics is considered authoritative.

“I know this will stun you, but I do not see anything controversial in this statement. We know - and as Catholics we believe in progressive revelation. The Bible contains no passages that genuinely condemn slavery, but do we believe that slavery contradicts the will of the Lord? Unless you want to be the first to raise an objection then yes, absolutely we do. The Bible mentions nothing of abortion. But do we believe that the will of the Lord condemns abortion? Unless you want to be the first to raise an objection then yes, absolutely we do.”

Do you know how the Deposit of Faith develops? Scripture, of which you reject parts, and Patristic Tradition, of which you reject the parts you don’t like (and also of course the Magisterium). To reject miracles, as you do, to make them ‘natural’ (truly an oxymoron) is not legitimate and organic development. It is a violent break with Tradition. It denies the consensus of the Patristics, which I remind you again is authoritative. The Patristics speak with a clear and unanimous consensus as to the literal reality of miracles. For instance in the case of abortion we have as early as the Didache a clear prohibition (which is strictly speaking not relevant since we know abortion to fall under the prohibition against murder), and it is constantly reaffirmed through the remainder of the Patristics who spoke on the subject, as well as the consensus of the Magisterium.

While some aspects of my original post (and blog post) are speculative, the reality of miracles is most certainly not. Nor is the reality of black magic (all magic is black magic).

Sad to say you have adopted a few decidedly Protestant stances which you would do well to re-examine.
 
I’m just curious… Do either of you have ANY idea what you’re discussing other than what you gleamed from a book? …
 
I’m just curious… Do either of you have ANY idea what you’re discussing other than what you gleamed from a book? …
Not having had the benefit of speaking to the Fathers of the Church myself, yes, I have to admit to the shocking fact that I learned what they said from a book. Specifically the three volume set “The Faith of the Early Fathers”, compiled and commentated by William Jurgens. A fine set, and well worth the $34 Amazon is asking. I highly recommend it.

The other books from which I have so amateurishly come to my knowledge include the Bible, the Catechism, various and sundry Magisterial documents, Jesus of Nazareth and Spirit of the Liturgy by Pope Benedict, and, in the case of paranormal activity, Gabriele Amorth’s two fine books on exorcism, as well as Exorcism and the Church Militant by Rev. Euteneuer.

What, might I ask, is wrong with learning from books? I hardly have time to meet all these lovely people myself, a large portion of the important ones being dead, after all.

Last and also least, I think you meant “gleaned”.
 
I’m just curious… Do either of you have ANY idea what you’re discussing other than what you gleamed from a book? …
As you can tell from my posts, I’m not quoting anyone or anything. I’m not plagiarizing anyone. If I was, I probably wouldn’t sound as dumb! These are my own thoughts and I know exactly what I’m saying.

What I do not know is what Nihil is saying. That’s what I’m trying to figure out.
Nihil:
That is incorrect.
So what are you saying faith means, then? This is sorta crucial. I don’t want to respond to that part of the post if I’m putting words into your mouth.
Nihil:
Do you understand the scholastic distinction between accident and substance? I recall being quite clear that the bread and wine become substantially the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ.
I know what the word “substantial” means in this context, as well as anyone else does at least. (That might not be saying much).

Yes, the Eucharist “substantially” becomes the Body of Christ.
Nihil:
I interpret the Bible in the same way as the Church, which is more than can be said for you.
No idea what you mean by this. Is there a NAB study Bible with liners from the Church? I’m unaware.
Nihil:
Do you know how the Deposit of Faith develops? Scripture, of which you reject parts,
It would be safer to say I reject what I consider to be false understandings of Scripture. Do you believe all Scripture is in the genre of history and that it is infallible?
and Patristic Tradition, of which you reject the parts you don’t like (and also of course the Magisterium). To reject miracles, as you do, to make them ‘natural’ (truly an oxymoron) is not legitimate and organic development. It is a violent break with Tradition. It denies the consensus of the Patristics, which I remind you again is authoritative. The Patristics speak with a clear and unanimous consensus as to the literal reality of miracles.
Can you tell me what a supernatural miracle would look like? Why would God operate within the universe in a manner that contradicted the laws that he created for said universe?

I think it’s possible you’re confusing this position for Protestant rationalism, which it is not.
For instance in the case of abortion we have as early as the Didache a clear prohibition (which is strictly speaking not relevant since we know abortion to fall under the prohibition against murder), and it is constantly reaffirmed through the remainder of the Patristics who spoke on the subject, as well as the consensus of the Magisterium.
Why did it takes thousands of years before the Didache was penned?
While some aspects of my original post (and blog post) are speculative, the reality of miracles is most certainly not. Nor is the reality of black magic (all magic is black magic).
If black magic exists and it works, why is no one using it? If someone is using it, why can we not find any evidence to show it?
Sad to say you have adopted a few decidedly Protestant stances which you would do well to re-examine.
The problem as I see it, is that you are making these decidedly Protestant interpretations all the more attractive to me, as you seem to shush away critical thinking on the subject.
 
As you can tell from my posts, I’m not quoting anyone or anything. I’m not plagiarizing anyone. If I was, I probably wouldn’t sound as dumb! These are my own thoughts and I know exactly what I’m saying.

What I do not know is what Nihil is saying. That’s what I’m trying to figure out.

So what are you saying faith means, then? This is sorta crucial. I don’t want to respond to that part of the post if I’m putting words into your mouth.

I know what the word “substantial” means in this context, as well as anyone else does at least. (That might not be saying much).

Yes, the Eucharist “substantially” becomes the Body of Christ.

No idea what you mean by this. Is there a NAB study Bible with liners from the Church? I’m unaware.

It would be safer to say I reject what I consider to be false understandings of Scripture. Do you believe all Scripture is in the genre of history and that it is infallible?

Can you tell me what a supernatural miracle would look like? Why would God operate within the universe in a manner that contradicted the laws that he created for said universe?

I think it’s possible you’re confusing this position for Protestant rationalism, which it is not.

Why did it takes thousands of years before the Didache was penned?

If black magic exists and it works, why is no one using it? If someone is using it, why can we not find any evidence to show it?

The problem as I see it, is that you are making these decidedly Protestant interpretations all the more attractive to me, as you seem to shush away critical thinking on the subject.
Finally we get into something substantive.

“So what are you saying faith means, then? This is sorta crucial. I don’t want to respond to that part of the post if I’m putting words into your mouth.”

Faith is informed by reason. Very simple.

“No idea what you mean by this. Is there a NAB study Bible with liners from the Church? I’m unaware.”

That is a simplistic and childish way of looking at it. There are authentic Catholic interpretations of Scripture (examples abound), and there are erroneous, heterodox, and widely condemned Protestant interpretations. There may be some variation in legitimate Catholic interpretations, but these will be minor because the teachings of the Patristic Fathers and the Magisterium inform our reading.

“It would be safer to say I reject what I consider to be false understandings of Scripture. Do you believe all Scripture is in the genre of history and that it is infallible?”

So you reject the Witch of Endor as being superstition?
I do not believe that Scripture is a history book. I interpret Scripture according to authentic Tradition.

“Can you tell me what a supernatural miracle would look like? Why would God operate within the universe in a manner that contradicted the laws that he created for said universe?”

For the glory of His name, the benefit of His Creation, and the strengthening of our faith? Why did Jesus turn water into wine? Why was he transformed on Mount Tabor? Why did He raise Lazarus from the dead? Again, examples abound.

“Why did it takes thousands of years before the Didache was penned?”

The Didache is generally dated to the late first or early second century, though some parts are thought potentially to pre-date Christ. The current consensus was that it was written as the first catechism. Have you read it?

“If black magic exists and it works, why is no one using it? If someone is using it, why can we not find any evidence to show it?”

People do use it. To the great detriment of their souls, of course. In terms of evidence, have you ever witnessed an exorcism? Or is that just more superstition? Do yourself a favour and take a good hard look at something- anything really- by Fr. Gabriele Amorth, probably the most famous modern exorcist. He writes at great length in his books about his personal experience with magic, and the enormous harm it can do, both to the practitioner and the victim.

“The problem as I see it, is that you are making these decidedly Protestant interpretations all the more attractive to me, as you seem to shush away critical thinking on the subject.”

I think actually that the problem is that you are afraid of a Catholic worldview that is open to more than just materialism. If there’s no evidence for it we can’t believe it? I reject that. There are more things in heaven and earth, Lux, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
 
NihilObstatINRI Not having had the benefit of speaking to the Fathers of the Church myself, yes, I have to admit to the shocking fact that I learned what they said from a book.

The other books from which I have so amateurishly come to my knowledge include the Bible, the Catechism, various and sundry Magisterial documents, Jesus of Nazareth and Spirit of the Liturgy by Pope Benedict, and, in the case of paranormal activity, Gabriele Amorth’s two fine books on exorcism, as well as Exorcism and the Church Militant by …

Didn’t mean to ruffle your feathers… Was just curious. I’m simple … with simple little questions. That’s all 🙂
 
No worries … Sometimes it’s hard to see the forest for the trees
 
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