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vern_humphrey
Guest
No, I’m questionning you and the person who made the quote. Specifically, I’m questionning your authority to interpret that quote – or any quote – authoritatively.
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ahimsaman72
Guest
vern humphrey:
Authority to interpret a quote? :whacky: Well, among the many gifts God has bestowed on mankind - the ability to reason is part of our makeup. I realize I am not the sharpest pencil in the box, but I try to use reason and what intelligence God gave me. This seems outside the scope of authority, isn’t it?
And still you haven’t answered the question I have now posted twice. Are you going to answer or chase rabbits down the trail?
Peace…
Oh my, aren’t we going a little overboard here? Don’t get angry with me - I’m with the band
Authority to interpret a quote? :whacky: Well, among the many gifts God has bestowed on mankind - the ability to reason is part of our makeup. I realize I am not the sharpest pencil in the box, but I try to use reason and what intelligence God gave me. This seems outside the scope of authority, isn’t it?
And still you haven’t answered the question I have now posted twice. Are you going to answer or chase rabbits down the trail?
Peace…
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lifeisbeautiful
Guest
vern humphrey:
Here’s another quote:
"You too have a professional vocation which spurs you on. Well, that spur is the hook to fish for men.
Rectify your intention, then, and be sure you acquire all the professional prestige you can for the service of God and of souls. The Lord counts on this too."
Here’s another quote:
"An impatient and disordered anxiousness to climb up the professional ladder can mask self-love under the appearances of “serving souls”. It is a lie — and I really mean that — when we seek to justify our actions by saying that we must not miss certain opportunities, certain favourable chances.
Turn your eyes back to Jesus; he is “the Way”. During his hidden years, there were also “very favourable” chances to advance his public life — when he was twelve years old, for instance, and the doctors of the law were in amazement at his questions and at the answers He gave. But Jesus Christ fulfilled the Will of his Father, and he waited. He obeyed.
Do not lose that holy ambition of yours to lead the whole world to God, but when certain possibilities present themselves (they might show perhaps a desire to desert) remember that you too have to be obedient and work away at that obscure job, which does not seem at all brilliant, for as long as God asks nothing else of you. He has his own times and paths."
Nope, I interpret that not everyone has to have flashy, top of the ladder job to do God’s will. St. Joseph was a carpenter, not a rich businessman. He is an example of what we should strive for. Doing your job, whatever it is, the best you can, for Love for God. Actually, when you do your job the best you can, you often end up getting promotions, etc.
Here’s another quote:
"You too have a professional vocation which spurs you on. Well, that spur is the hook to fish for men.
Rectify your intention, then, and be sure you acquire all the professional prestige you can for the service of God and of souls. The Lord counts on this too."
Here’s another quote:
"An impatient and disordered anxiousness to climb up the professional ladder can mask self-love under the appearances of “serving souls”. It is a lie — and I really mean that — when we seek to justify our actions by saying that we must not miss certain opportunities, certain favourable chances.
Turn your eyes back to Jesus; he is “the Way”. During his hidden years, there were also “very favourable” chances to advance his public life — when he was twelve years old, for instance, and the doctors of the law were in amazement at his questions and at the answers He gave. But Jesus Christ fulfilled the Will of his Father, and he waited. He obeyed.
Do not lose that holy ambition of yours to lead the whole world to God, but when certain possibilities present themselves (they might show perhaps a desire to desert) remember that you too have to be obedient and work away at that obscure job, which does not seem at all brilliant, for as long as God asks nothing else of you. He has his own times and paths."
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vern_humphrey
Guest
And does the quote go on to say, “And He remained in silence, obscurity, submission and work, refusing to undertake anything more, and squandering the purpose of His coming?”
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ahimsaman72
Guest
Do you know who said these things? I love it.
Peace…
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vern_humphrey
Guest
I’m glad you picked Saint Joseph for your example – he was a carpenter, and by definition an entrepreneur and a capitalist.http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon12.gif
And you disagree with that?
So can we agree that we are called to maximize our God-given potential for the good of all, rather than for personal benefit?
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vern_humphrey
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Oh my, aren’t we going a little overboard here? Don’t get angry with me - I’m with the band
So to win the argument you have to get me to concede that you have the Magisterium?http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon10.gif
ahimsaman72:
Specifically what question haven’t I answered?
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lifeisbeautiful
Guest
Hi! I love his writings, he is St. Josemaria Escriva, founder of Opus Dei (Work of God).
You can find more of his writings at:
escrivaworks.org/
In St. Josemaria’s canonization (he’s a modern day Saint, canonized by JPII) JPII said: “St. Josemaría was chosen by the Lord to proclaim the universal call to holiness and to indicate that everyday life, its customary activities, are a path towards holiness. It could be said that he was the saint of the ordinary.”
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vern_humphrey
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I notice that John Paul the Great did not say, “But St. Josemaría refused his calling and threw away the gifts God gave him.”
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lifeisbeautiful
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vern humphrey:
Why on Earth would he say that?
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ahimsaman72
Guest
vern humphrey:
Let me give you an example -
Jane is loving, kind, and loves working with children. She is intelligent and witty and feels like God has given her the ability to connect with children on an emotional level and spiritual level. And given that she is intelligent and feels like she would be serving God by using these multiple attributes in a teaching position at the local elementary school.
What is wrong with this? If she spends the rest of her life in the service of the community BECAUSE SHE WANTS TO and FEELS GOD URGING HER in this endeavor - who are you and I to say that she should naturally strive to be a principal - superintendent or anything else?
From post#1 (again):
Let me give you an example -
Jane is loving, kind, and loves working with children. She is intelligent and witty and feels like God has given her the ability to connect with children on an emotional level and spiritual level. And given that she is intelligent and feels like she would be serving God by using these multiple attributes in a teaching position at the local elementary school.
What is wrong with this? If she spends the rest of her life in the service of the community BECAUSE SHE WANTS TO and FEELS GOD URGING HER in this endeavor - who are you and I to say that she should naturally strive to be a principal - superintendent or anything else?
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vern_humphrey
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He wouldn’t and he didn’t.
And that sums up my position – Saint Joesmaria, like all saints maximized the talents God gave him. He did not throw them away, and say, “Well, I’m satisfied with where I am, and regardless of what God gave me, I’m not going any farther.”
And the rest of us, each with our own set of God-given talents have the same duty to maximize them, for the benefit of all.
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ahimsaman72
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As a human I have the right to point out that humans have the ability to reason. So what?
I would simply like to see something from the Magisterium that validates your point
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vern_humphrey
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Where is Jane? If we are to discuss her, surely she should be here.
To answer your question, we must ask Jane a question:
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lifeisbeautiful
Guest
vern humphrey:
With that said, in the example given the talents and God’s will pointed towards being a teacher. Why should the person try to be a principal, againts God’s will and not using her talents to the max? If all teachers did that we would have an excess of principals and a lack of teachers!
How about garbagemen? If someone is called to be a garbage man he can be a saint by doing his job well and for Love of God. If he is called to be a garbage man, we don’t have to criticize him for not owning a garbage company. He just has to be the best garbage man he can!
These are people following their vocations and living good Christian lives.
You forgot to add, we have the duty to do God’s Will
With that said, in the example given the talents and God’s will pointed towards being a teacher. Why should the person try to be a principal, againts God’s will and not using her talents to the max? If all teachers did that we would have an excess of principals and a lack of teachers!
How about garbagemen? If someone is called to be a garbage man he can be a saint by doing his job well and for Love of God. If he is called to be a garbage man, we don’t have to criticize him for not owning a garbage company. He just has to be the best garbage man he can!
These are people following their vocations and living good Christian lives.
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ahimsaman72
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vern humphrey:
She’s a staunch baptist living back home in the deep south? Why can’t you stick to the question and answer it? You seem bent on avoiding the issue by coming up with more demands. Sorry, you’ve been given the chance to respond and are avoiding it. I just want an honest answer to the question.
Quote:
Do you honestly believe you are working to your full potential?
I suppose I will give you an answer anyway since I’m closer to her than anyone and you won’t answer unless I do - she got her batchelor’s and started teaching. She wanted to become a guidance counselor and help kids that way. She went back to college and got her master’s. She began to practice as a counselor and found she was not suited for it even though she had the qualifications. She now teaches and enjoys doing just that - teaching. She is working to her full potential as a child of God and member of society and benefits her children and her own self in the process.
Is your idea of potential that is the correct one or is it God’s? You don’t presume to know every individual’s life and circumstances and heart, do you?
Okay - first you complained about not having a real-world Jane. I gave you a real-world Jane and now you want to question her??? Why should she be here?
She’s a staunch baptist living back home in the deep south? Why can’t you stick to the question and answer it? You seem bent on avoiding the issue by coming up with more demands. Sorry, you’ve been given the chance to respond and are avoiding it. I just want an honest answer to the question.Quote:
Do you honestly believe you are working to your full potential?
I suppose I will give you an answer anyway since I’m closer to her than anyone and you won’t answer unless I do - she got her batchelor’s and started teaching. She wanted to become a guidance counselor and help kids that way. She went back to college and got her master’s. She began to practice as a counselor and found she was not suited for it even though she had the qualifications. She now teaches and enjoys doing just that - teaching. She is working to her full potential as a child of God and member of society and benefits her children and her own self in the process.
Is your idea of potential that is the correct one or is it God’s? You don’t presume to know every individual’s life and circumstances and heart, do you?
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lifeisbeautiful
Guest
I think I just figured what’s going on. You think that to do the best we can means to climb to the highest position on the corporate ladder etc. (higher positions from a societal view) Well, for some, doing the best they can includes that, while for others it doesn’t. A vocation to be a teacher is not the same as a vocation to be a principal. In fact, if a teacher, realizing she is called to be a teacher, tries to be a principal out of pride etc. she will actually be going against God’s will. Now, if she is called to be a principal, and knows this, and decides not to out of laziness etc, then she is not doing God’s will. Its up to our dear friend Jane to recognize what God wants of her and do it, the best she can.
Occupations that may seem little in society’s eyes, when done well and with Love for God, can lead someone straight to Heaven.
Occupations that may seem little in society’s eyes, when done well and with Love for God, can lead someone straight to Heaven.
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ahimsaman72
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Thanks Lifeisbeautiful!! I sense a real humility in him. How refreshing in the world that is!
Peace…
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ahimsaman72
Guest
I agree with your points - were you intending this for me?
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vern_humphrey
Guest
But not the right to claim that you can authoritatively interpret scripture, tradition or the works of saints.
What have you got that validates yours? Where does the Church teach that all people must accept their current lot in life and not seek to maximize their God-given talents?I would simply like to see something from the Magisterium that validates your point
From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
[2427](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/2427.htm’)
Human work proceeds directly from persons created in the image of God and called to prolong the work of creation by subduing the earth, both with and for one another.210 Hence work is a duty: "If any one will not work, let him not eat."211 Work honors the Creator’s gifts and the talents received from him. It can also be redemptive. By enduring the hardship of work212 in union with Jesus, the carpenter of Nazareth and the one crucified on Calvary, man collaborates in a certain fashion with the Son of God in his redemptive work. He shows himself to be a disciple of Christ by carrying the cross, daily, in the work he is called to accomplish.213 Work can be a means of sanctification and a way of animating earthly realities with the Spirit of Christ.
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