Catholic teen having trouble with Catholic-bashers?

[HorseJumperCTS]

I admit, I don’t know much about my faith. I am learning more every day, and I strive to learn much, much more.

I have heard: “The Catholic church, was one of the original 3 christian churches. But they were quickly overcome with corruption. Just about ever time they change some part of scripture, they lose some catholics who leave and start another church…”

Has the Church changed Scripture? Also, what do Catholics today think about the Inquisition? I am ashamed of the terrible things that happened during it, but I don’t know if this belief is shared by the rest of the Church?

Also, is this actually a part of the Jesuit oath? If so, can someone explain it? “I furthermore promise and declare that I will, when opportunity present, make and wage relentless war, secretly or openly, against all heretics, Protestants and Liberals, as I am directed to do, to extirpate and exterminate them from the face of the whole earth; and that I will spare neither age, sex or condition; and that I will hang, waste, boil, flay, strangle and bury alive these infamous heretics, rip up the stomachs and wombs of their women and crush their infants’ heads against the walls, in order to annihilate forever their execrable race. That when the same cannot be done openly, I will secretly use the poisoned cup, the strangulating cord, the steel of the poniard or the leaden bullet, regardless of the honor, rank, dignity, or authority of the person or persons, whatever may be their condition in life, either public or private, as I at any time may be directed so to do by any agent of the Pope or Superior of the Brotherhood of the Holy Faith, of the Society of Jesus.”

Sorry for the questions and for how misinformed I seem, but I just would like to learn more about why people hate the Church so that I can set them straight.

 

[puppypatrol]

It is good for you to ask questions and research for yourself; not just taking someone’s word for things as gospel (so to speak).

None of the above is true.

I have heard: “The Catholic church, was one of the original 3 christian churches. But they were quickly overcome with corruption. Just about ever time they change some part of scripture, they lose some catholics who leave and start another church…”

Christ started one church. Who ever is making this statement may be confusing the 7 “parishes” (Ephesis, Corinth, Galatia, Philippi,etc…) In the 1500s some people left the Catholic Church to start new Protestant churches and they are still with us today as our separated brothers and sisters in Christ. The problem is they have no authoritative teachings so they have split into about 33,000 different denominations.
The Catholic Church has believed and taught the same since day one. The Catholic Church compiled the documents now referred to the Bible, documents written by Catholics like Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul, etc… The Bible is a Catholic Book and the only people that have changed some of the parts of Scripture were the Protestants such as Martin Luther who removed 7 books from the Old Testament. He also wanted to remove Revelations, James and several other books in the New Testement but he was talked out of it.

Also, what do Catholics today think about the Inquisition? I am ashamed of the terrible things that happened during it, but I don’t know if this belief is shared by the rest of the Church?

As far as the Inquisition, the main people involved were King Philip of France who wanted riches that the Templars had so he had them declared heretics. The Pope limited what he could do in the way of punishment and also made sure many of these men had real trials. The other main people involved were Isabella and Ferdinand of Spain. They were known and the Catholic King and Queen and they petitioned the Pope to allow an inquisition in Spain to “Convert the Moors”. The Spanish were still able to get out of hand with many of the Spanish wanting control of the property and treasure held by the Moors and the Jews. There were many Inquisitors being paid by the poitical powers. Their power was also limited but they supported many atrocities before they were stopped by faithful Monks and Priests. The Inquisition was mostly a political situation and less a religious one.

As far as the Jesuits go, try this link and read it for yourself.

newadvent.org/cathen/14081a.htm

They take vows of obedience, chastity, and poverty. If they fight any battles it is with knowledge and education the faithful.

I hope this helps some. I wish more would be interested in learning their faith and it’s history for themselves and not listen to everyone else who don’t know any more that they do.

 

[NHInsider]

Good for you for wanting to learn.

Last things first, that weird supposedly Jesuit oath is one of those anti-catholic things that float around the internet, being repeated over and over by people who may actually think that they are true. It’s not.

Jesuits vow to live lives of chastity, poverty and obedience to their superiors. Most religious orders take these vows. Jesuits also take a vow of service to the Pope, specifically to go on any mission he may give to them. This is probably the source of the silly “Oath” that sounds like it came out of a Dan Brown novel.

The Inquisition is a very complicated issue - it is a historical fact that the church set up “Courts of inquiry” to determine whether or not individuals were teaching or following heretical doctrines, and it is true that in many cases these courts became corrupted by power and were used for political purposes. It is also true that in some cases these courts used interrogation techniques that we would consider torture. (Does that sound eeriely familiar?) The justification for all of this was that heresy would condemn a person to hell, so rooting out heresy was for everyone’s good (even the heretic, since if they could be persuaded to give up their heresy they would go to heaven instead). Punishments, incidentally, were not carried out by the Church but were recommended to the civil authorities who then usually carried them out.

In 1998 Pope John Paul II officially stated that the Church needed to understand what happened in the Inquisition and to express “profound regret” for the weaknesses of those whose actions failed to “mirror” the Lord who is, patient, loving and humble. Perhaps the easiest summary would be to say Catholics today think the Inquisition is an example of good intentions gone terribly, tragically wrong.

Here’s one resource:
catholiceducation.org/articles/history/world/wh0029.html

The Church did not change the Bible, which is not a single book but a collection of many texts written over a number of centuries. The Church determined, with the authority given to the Apostles by Jesus, which of the many writings of the early decades of Christianity were inspired by God and should be considered to be God’s Holy Word, along with those books which had been considered Scripture by the Jews at the time of Jesus. Some years later, some Christians decided that some of the books that were in the Scriptures Jesus and the Apostles used shouldn’t have been included in the Bible, which is why today’s Protestant Bibles’ Old Testaments have 66 books instead of the 73 you will find in a Catholic Bible. The New Testaments are the same. There are also some people who are cross that the Church did not include more books in the New Testament, and sometimes you will see books or articles that claim the Church “suppressed” these books. Actually many of those other books were still read and studied by Christians but just not considered God’s Word. Others were in fact “suppressed” because they included teachings about Jesus that were not what the Apostles had taught (like that he was a space alien . . .)

Coming backward to your first question - there were not three original churches, there was just one church (with local congregations). This church was called “catholic” because in Greek that means “universal.”

The first major split in the Church came in 1054 and resulted in the (Western) Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church(es). Five hundred years later there were three splits within a few decades, which taken together form the origin of all the Protestant churches.

If you hang out here and ask questions as you think of them, you’ll soon feel more comfortable discussing the true history of the Church with those who’ve been misinformed.

 

[DavidFilmer]

I have heard: "The Catholic church, was one of the original 3 christian churches.

I’d love to hear who the “other two” were supposed to have been.

There was only ONE Christian Church (with the Pope as her head) until the Great Schism of 1054 AD (that’s more than half the Christian era that there was ONE and only ONE Christian Church).

There were, especially in the earlier days, various heretical “Christian” movements, such as Gnostics and the Arians. But these groups could not be called “Christian” by any reasonable standards (the Arians, for example, rejected the Divinity of Christ. The Jehovah’s Witnesses are Arians, and they are not Christian). And none of these “Christian” heresies could claim to have originated with the Apostles. Only the Catholic Church could make (and prove) that claim.

Has the Church changed Scripture?

Absolutely not. The Church WROTE Scripture (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul - they were all Catholic). She has ever been the guardian of Her own words against those who would distort them (such as the modern Arians, the Jehovah’s Witnesses, with their “New World Translation,” or the “American Bible Society” with their absurd “New International Version” (NIV)).

Also, what do Catholics today think about the Inquisition? I am ashamed of the terrible things that happened during it

Catholics did both noble and shameful things during this period. Opponents of the Church focus on the shameful.

How shall we judge any orginization? By those members who uphold its values? Or by those who ignore and disregard those values?

We have Catholics who have upheld the values of the Catholic Church. We call these people “Saints.” We have members who have ignored those values. We call them… something else.

Judge the Church by her Saints, not her sinners. The Church does not control the actions of anyone. Catholics have free-will to disobey the Church (and God) and do terrible things.

 

[sfoscott]

Hello Troubled Teen,
I was a protestant for 25 years before becoming Catholic and know from first hand experience that most protestants never really take the time to find the real truth about the teachings and beliefs of the Catholic Church but rather just repeat biases and prejudices that have been passed on to them from other protestants. If they wanted to really be fair with their (search for truth) one would think that they would have spent time asking the teachers of the Catholic Faith to explain the teachings of the church (Priests, Deacons, RCIA instructors,ect…) and when we do not act with charity and speak falsely about another person and their religion, we sin against the commandment “Thy shall not cast false witness against thy neighbor”, Furthermore, when the dialog turns into “bashing” they commit the sin of not "Love thy neighbor as Thyself - all people should be treated with respect and love throughout the discussion. We are all made in God’s image and sometimes your protestant friends might need to be reminded of that fact, and like the great saint that you are called to be, even in the face of persecution- respond with true Catholic Charity. Knowledge of your faith will come, attend weekly mass and daily mass when possible. Be at peace and know that you are in my prayers! Never let go of this great pearl that has been given to you - The one and only true church started by Christ, “The Roman Catholic Church”! PAX

 

[thunderballs75]

I’m 16 years old. Don’t worry about them. Don’t get mad at them. Forgive them. Pray for them. This will help.

 

[Shane94]

Hi!

I’m 14 and I too have been upset by what some Anti-Catholics say about our Church.

I would advise you to pray for these people who don’t know the REAL Catholic Church and that people will be more tolerant of other’s beliefs. Learn about the true history of our Church and don’t get upset over what some Protestants claim.

Remember, the Roman Catholic Church is the ONE true Church set up by Christ and his Apostles

So any time you come across any Catholic-bashing, just keep that in mind!

Praying that people across the world will not condemn eachother’s religion

God Bless!

 

[Katrn]

I admit, I don’t know much about my faith. I am learning more every day, and I strive to learn much, much more.

I have heard: “The Catholic church, was one of the original 3 christian churches. But they were quickly overcome with corruption. Just about ever time they change some part of scripture, they lose some catholics who leave and start another church…”

Has the Church changed Scripture? Also, what do Catholics today think about the Inquisition? I am ashamed of the terrible things that happened during it, but I don’t know if this belief is shared by the rest of the Church?

Also, is this actually a part of the Jesuit oath? If so, can someone explain it? “I furthermore promise and declare that I will, when opportunity present, make and wage relentless war, secretly or openly, against all heretics, Protestants and Liberals, as I am directed to do, to extirpate and exterminate them from the face of the whole earth; and that I will spare neither age, sex or condition; and that I will hang, waste, boil, flay, strangle and bury alive these infamous heretics, rip up the stomachs and wombs of their women and crush their infants’ heads against the walls, in order to annihilate forever their execrable race. That when the same cannot be done openly, I will secretly use the poisoned cup, the strangulating cord, the steel of the poniard or the leaden bullet, regardless of the honor, rank, dignity, or authority of the person or persons, whatever may be their condition in life, either public or private, as I at any time may be directed so to do by any agent of the Pope or Superior of the Brotherhood of the Holy Faith, of the Society of Jesus.”

Sorry for the questions and for how misinformed I seem, but I just would like to learn more about why people hate the Church so that I can set them straight.

People bash the Catholic chhurch out of being scared that if they followed the true church that jesus himself set up in Matthew, they would have to follow the rules that go with it…I highly suggest Scott Hahn’s bood “Swear to God” where he talks about all of the oaths, contracts and covenents that God made with his people including the sacrifice of the Mass…this should set things straight with you…remember, in the last 500 years is not the time that christians were thrown to the lions but the first 1500 years which was exclusivly Catholic…ask you friends as I do to thank the Catholic church for perserving christianity until they decided to come around when things got easy for christians!

God Bless!

Kathleen

 

[marccatholic]

Just want to ask also. What would be the Catholic Church’s stand on the Ten Commandments the way it differs to Protestants? They usually throw the same thing against us that we actually changed the second commandment, shortened, etc. making the commandments totally different even to include the numberings. And, why is NIV of American Bible Society a flaw one? Any explanations for a 19-year old Filipino? Thanks a lot.

 

[averylivewtl]

It’s great that you want to learn about your faith! I suggest Amy Welborn’s series Prove It!, especially Prove It! Church. And you have come to the right place, CAF is a wonderful resource!

It was not one of the original 3 churches. It WAS the original church, and stayed that way for many, many years. When Jesus took Simon out and called him Peter, Peter meant rock. “And on this rock, I will build my church.” Notice he said Church, not Churches. Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior founded one church. That happens to be our Catholic church.

Most people do not hate the Catholic church for what it is. They hate what they THINK it is. Yes, the Inquisition was bad. There were some messed up people. But does that mean that the Church is bad? The whole entire Church? No. They were sinners, just like you and I. That doesn’t mean that the whole Church is bad just because of that incident.

The Church has not changed scripture. The early Church put together the Bible as we know it today, but they did not change it. Through the process of discernment, they were able to tell which books were inspired by God. I suggest “Understanding the Scriptures” by Scott Hann.

I am not sure about the Jesuit oath, but I will look into it. The Church would never endorse something bad , we may just misunderstand some things.

I hope you grow in your faith and knowledge of Jesus Christ and the Catholic Faith.
Avery

 

[awantz]

If you were born and raised in the Catholic Church/ Cradle Catholic, I would suggest you talk RCIA. It is very informative. I know some cradle Catholics who went and found things out that they didn’t already know.

 

[GeorgeSword]

I looked up the Jesuit oath thing. It’s fake. Apparently it was originally claimed to be in the Library of Congress, but of course, it turns out it isn’t there.

 

[scottywolf777]

While the Inquistion was a bad thing (except for the Monty Python joke-nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition) one thing that can be said of it . When was the last time you were woken up on Saturday morning with a Bogomil or a Cathar at your door with their litterature?
Unfortunately, Catholic bashing and anti-Catholic propaganda is still with us. When my mother was a girl on Georgia she had to walk under a railroad bridge to go to Mass. Non-Catholics would sit on the bridge and throw rocks and stuff at the Catholics and shout nasty insulting and obscene things at them. When she started looking for work the town was full of NINA signs so they moved to Seattle. No Irish Need Apply. An unfortunately sad thing, I started a petition against Catholic bashing especially against priests on the web at care2care.com and only 112 people signed it

 

[geekborj]

I didn’t know much until i examined the “truth” offered by liars.

X-Files: “To know the truth, follow the lies.”

Good to know that you have come to decide to know the whole Truth that you already have since your Baptism. God is great!

I have heard: “The Catholic church, was one of the original 3 christian churches. But they were quickly overcome with corruption. Just about ever time they change some part of scripture, they lose some catholics who leave and start another church…”

Just as what puppypatrol pointed out: How do you define a “church”? What are these “three original christian churches”? When did these churches start to be? Which church did Jesus actually make? To whom did the Holy Spirit descend once and for all initiating the “new creation” (Church)?

Has the Church changed Scripture? Also, what do Catholics today think about the Inquisition? I am ashamed of the terrible things that happened during it, but I don’t know if this belief is shared by the rest of the Church?

Which Scripture? The OT or the NT? How did the Bible came to be? How come there are many different “translations” of the same Bible books? How come there are at least Protestant Bible and Catholic Bible?

Also, is this actually a part of the Jesuit oath? If so, can someone explain it? “I furthermore promise and declare that I will, when opportunity present, make and wage relentless war, secretly or openly, against all heretics, Protestants and Liberals, as I am directed to do, to extirpate and exterminate them from the face of the whole earth; and that I will spare neither age, sex or condition; and that I will hang, waste, boil, flay, strangle and bury alive these infamous heretics, rip up the stomachs and wombs of their women and crush their infants’ heads against the walls, in order to annihilate forever their execrable race. That when the same cannot be done openly, I will secretly use the poisoned cup, the strangulating cord, the steel of the poniard or the leaden bullet, regardless of the honor, rank, dignity, or authority of the person or persons, whatever may be their condition in life, either public or private, as I at any time may be directed so to do by any agent of the Pope or Superior of the Brotherhood of the Holy Faith, of the Society of Jesus.”

Who are Jesuits? What are their objectives and missions? Do these correspond to the oath above?

There are lots of other anti-Catholic “quotations” like these going around the net. One friend of mine even posted a quote from a Catholic Bishop against Papal Infallibility only to know that it was fabricated to be issued during one General Council.

Sorry for the questions and for how misinformed I seem, but I just would like to learn more about why people hate the Church so that I can set them straight.

Set them straight with firm but loving voice. Like how our Father in heaven tell us with authority yet with a loving voice about the Truth which is Him as our Trice Holy God.

 

[bmadamsberry]

Just want to ask also. What would be the Catholic Church’s stand on the Ten Commandments the way it differs to Protestants? They usually throw the same thing against us that we actually changed the second commandment, shortened, etc. making the commandments totally different even to include the numberings. And, why is NIV of American Bible Society a flaw one? Any explanations for a 19-year old Filipino? Thanks a lot.

It is important to remember that the Books of the Bible do not contain chapters or verses. Therefore, no numbering by Protestants can be said to be true… because there was no such thing. Furthermore, there are actually 14 commandments if you break them into imperative statements. So, there are 14 things you should/shouldn’t do. However, both Catholic and Protestant Churches combine them in numbering.
Next it is important to note that who cares? Who cares what the numbers are of the Commandments, it matters what they say and if you obey them! The Church, anyway, has said that its numbering is based upon tradition given by St. Augustine, and has not ruled one way or another.
The Catholic Church has the commandments divided based upon what they say and how they are quoted later in scripture. Protestants (except for Lutherans, who follow the Catholic numbering) seperate “You shall have no other gods before me” and “You shall not make for yourself a graven image”. These two things are really saying the same thing, though.
Protestants combine “You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife” and “You shall not desire anything that is your neighbor’s”. This, in effect, puts a wife on the same plane as property. The Catholic Church has these two separated. Later in the Old Testament, the commandment is again given, and it is seperated like it is in the Catholic numbering.
In reference to Protestants saying that the Church has “hidden” parts of the Ten Commandments, it is because of sheer stupidity. When teaching the 10 Commandments to children, the Church shortens phrases to their meaning. So instead of a long paragraph about graven images and having no gods before G-d, Catholics sum it up as “You shall have no other gods before me”. Protestants do the same thing in Sunday School.
Look at this website for more help: cin.org/users/james/files/numberng.htm

Sorry it was so long. Hope it was informative, though! Let me know if I can clarify or help anymore!

 

[CatholicEdu]

Hi HorseJumperCTS,

Although this is my first post, I’ve spent countless hours reading different threads on this site for over a year.

I just wanted to point out to everyone that I have seen this supposed ‘Jesuit Oath’ once before online: masonicinfo.com/KofC.htm In this case, it was leveed against John F. Kennedy as the Knights of Columbus oath. Seems to me that Catholic-basers are just copy and pasting their lies around…

Mr C

 

[Wowbagger]

That oath is incredible. I mean, cripes! Look at the wording! Ripping infants out of wombs and crushing their skulls against the walls? Sounds like George Tiller’s job description! Whatever else you want to say about it, whoever wrote that oath had a terrifically violent imagination.

However, the person who wrote the oath was almost undoubtedly a Protestant Republican, not a Catholic.

Here’s a link. It’s actually a pretty good story; it came from the early 20th Century equivalent of attack ads: geocities.com/okc_catholic/articles/jesuit_oath.html

 

[mariella1214]

Hi there. Even though your questions have already been answered, I just wanted to drop in and leave my own words of encouragement…I went through this stage, too: I was baptized at 11, and last December at 15 is when I started to surf the web to learn things, and found all the Catholic-bashing websites. Since this is where things get deeper and I had nobody nearby to ask for advice regarding this, I was on my own to try and untangle everything, although my confidence in the Church was unfortunately injured for a long time, because even as I found answers to these questions, the Catholic-bashing websites kept coming. While I never doubted that I was in the true Church, something was wavering in me…I guess it was disturbing to all of a sudden see all the conflicts surrounding what I believe, and the hostility between Protestants and Catholics.

So I started to read…and read…and read. And this was odd because I used to read fantasy books, but all of a sudden I was buying books on apologetics and spiritual reading instead. This helped—to stop listening to the trash I found on these anti-Catholic websites, and find answers straight from a Catholic who knows. It took a lot of courage, though, to start digging really deep and learning the bits that they don’t teach you at religious ed class.
And also I prayed. I have to admit that I prayed my first Rosary on February during a moment of confusion, and it helped. I became better ‘friends’ with my patron Saints and even others who aren’t. I had a lot of help from them.
So through reading and prayer I trudged through that stage. Sometimes I still fall into doubt and it’s like starting over again, but over the months I have been able to sort out a lot of my thoughts, and where my confidence in the Church was wavering I can now tell you that it is firm as a rock again.

My friends are mostly Protestant. We don’t get into debates often, but when we do it frustrates me—not so much what they don’t believe, but their ignorance and unwillingness to learn more about it. I pray for their conversion every day, and am sure it will work sooner or later.

Basically I’m disciplining myself to grow in faith through reading and prayer. It’s not easy, and often we will feel alone, but it’s worth the effort. There’s still so much for me to learn.
I wish you luck on your spiritual journey, too. God bless!
-Mariella

 

[wmscott]

I admit, I don’t know much about my faith. I am learning more every day, and I strive to learn much, much more.

I have heard: “The Catholic church, was one of the original 3 christian churches. But they were quickly overcome with corruption. Just about ever time they change some part of scripture, they lose some catholics who leave and start another church…”

Has the Church changed Scripture? Also, what do Catholics today think about the Inquisition? I am ashamed of the terrible things that happened during it, but I don’t know if this belief is shared by the rest of the Church?

Also, is this actually a part of the Jesuit oath? If so, can someone explain it? “I furthermore promise and declare that I will, when opportunity present, make and wage relentless war, secretly or openly, against all heretics, Protestants and Liberals, as I am directed to do, to extirpate and exterminate them from the face of the whole earth; and that I will spare neither age, sex or condition; and that I will hang, waste, boil, flay, strangle and bury alive these infamous heretics, rip up the stomachs and wombs of their women and crush their infants’ heads against the walls, in order to annihilate forever their execrable race. That when the same cannot be done openly, I will secretly use the poisoned cup, the strangulating cord, the steel of the poniard or the leaden bullet, regardless of the honor, rank, dignity, or authority of the person or persons, whatever may be their condition in life, either public or private, as I at any time may be directed so to do by any agent of the Pope or Superior of the Brotherhood of the Holy Faith, of the Society of Jesus.”

Sorry for the questions and for how misinformed I seem, but I just would like to learn more about why people hate the Church so that I can set them straight.

First, I commend you for looking for the right answers, please never feel that any question is not worthy of asking. This is how we learn.

Second, unless you are a theology major I do not know many teens that are experts on the Bible and faith matters, I am 53 and I am still learning.

Third, these other teens are trained to do to you exactly what they did, make you question your faith and spread anti-Catholic falsehoods. Some even attend boot camps or youth groups for this purpose.

Finally, you have found a rich source of help and information here, so keep asking questions, answer the ones you can, and if you do not know say so, but that you know where to get the answer and you will get back to them. While doing this set some ground rules.

1. When someone makes an accusation, ask for proof. Make them cite what documents they are getting the information.
2. Deal with only one issue at a time. Heaping a boat load of junk is not playing fair and if they refuse, they really do not want to hear what you have to say.
3. When providing a response be prepared to provide proper citation and evidence. it is always preferable to include Biblical references, since they are going to be big on “where does it say that in the Bible.”
4. Be prepared to be scoffed at, that is OK. This just means that they do not want to see or learn what you believe.

I am sure there are some more (name removed by moderator)uts from those here that are far more talented than I am. They may want to expand on the ground rules if they like.

You are not alone, use this resource as often as you can, seek guidance form your priest, and stay strong. You will get through this.

I hope this helps in some small way.

 

[bmadamsberry]

I would like to point out that I took an entire day a few Sat. ago to compare anti-Catholic and anti-Protestant websites. What I found was shocking. While I thought that there would be very few Protestant bashing websites I actually found… a lot less! I mean I could only find 2 Protestant bashing websites, one of which was actually just a forum where people could bash different groups, and the other was by an atheist, not a Catholic. I found a gross amount of Catholic bashing websites, though, each and everyone by a Protestant with few exceptions.
I guess it goes to show you that those with the Truth have no reason to bash and beat people over the head, while those that don’t have the Truth have to rely on yelling, defamation, lies, and anger to try and prove their point.