Catholic teen having trouble with Catholic-bashers?

[wmscott]

I would like to point out that I took an entire day a few Sat. ago to compare anti-Catholic and anti-Protestant websites. What I found was shocking. While I thought that there would be very few Protestant bashing websites I actually found… a lot less! I mean I could only find 2 Protestant bashing websites, one of which was actually just a forum where people could bash different groups, and the other was by an atheist, not a Catholic. I found a gross amount of Catholic bashing websites, though, each and everyone by a Protestant with few exceptions.
I guess it goes to show you that those with the Truth have no reason to bash and beat people over the head, while those that don’t have the Truth have to rely on yelling, defamation, lies, and anger to try and prove their point.

It is amazing isn’t it? so what does that say about Christian charity on their part? We have to remember not all Protestants are anti-Catholic, they just disagree with some of the Catholic doctrines. As some food for thought, we do not bash them because they are our separated brothers and sisters.

 

[Sword_Brethren]

In 1998 Pope John Paul II officially stated that the Church needed to understand what happened in the Inquisition and to express “profound regret” for the weaknesses of those whose actions failed to “mirror” the Lord who is, patient, loving and humble. Perhaps the easiest summary would be to say Catholics today think the Inquisition is an example of good intentions gone terribly, tragically wrong.

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Not all Catholics think the Holy Inquisition was tragically wrong. The Spanish Inquisition saved Spain from hersey while the rest of Europe was torn to pieces by it. The enemies of the Holy Catholic Church have greatly lied about the facts of the Inquisition.

 

[Sword_Brethren]

The Inquisition was mostly a political situation and less a religious one.

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From my understanding that is not so. The Inqusition was about the saving of souls. In the 400 year history of the Spanish Inquisition about 2000-3000 heretics were executed. Certainly millions were not killed in all the Inquisitions. The Spanish Inquisition courts were in fact more fair and just than the secular courts of the time. Death sentences were the rarity. A well researched book on this subject is the book, The Spanish Inquisition: A Historical Revision by Professor Henry Kamen.

 

[Fan_of_M_Ricci]

First of all, everyone who has posted is absolutely right. The Church has done the best job in preserving Scripture, and the Inquisition was an unfortunate hijacking of our Faith for religious purposes.

Moreover, that alleged Jesuit oath is a bunch of hateful claptrap, like the Blood Libel leveled at Jews in the Middle Ages.

There are so-called “Christian” preachers who seem to make a whole or part of their ministry attacking the Catholic Church with ridiculous or infuriating lies. Here’s a blog listing some of these preachers: gmmusings.blogspot.com/2009/07/fools-to-be-pitied.html

 

[Tetiaroa]

I have heard: “The Catholic church, was one of the original 3 christian churches. But they were quickly overcome with corruption. Just about ever time they change some part of scripture, they lose some catholics who leave and start another church…”

What you’ve heard is almost correct. The 3 original Christian churches were not different churches.
The correct way to say is this: There were 3 regional patriarchs which were all part of the one Catholic Church headed by 3 regional patriarchal bishops (1) Rome, (2) Alexandria (in Egypt), and (3) Antioch (in Syria) in that order of primacy. All three of these bishops derived their authority from St. Peter and from ties of discipleship between Peter (in Rome) and his disciples Mark (in Alexandria) and Evodius (in Antioch). The Bishop of Rome had always been considered the First in the order of hierarchy. St. Peter ended his days as the Bishop of Rome, and the Bishop of Rome succeeds to the ministry of St. Peter as the head of the universal Church. The main reason to have patriarchs in different parts of the world was not because they were split into 3. It’s due to lack of fast communication and transportation systems.

As far as corruption is concerned, the Church has never been overcome with corruption. The Catholic Church from the beginning has always been fighting heresies and corruption. Examples of fighting against heresies and corruption are establishing the creeds, canonizing the books of the Bible, having ecumenical Church councils etc. Although, there had been bad times with a few parish leaders and even a few bad popes, it does not mean that the Catholic Church was overcome by corruption and evil. During those bad times, NO SINGLE FALSE DOCTRINE WAS PROCLAIMED NOR INVENTED!

Has the Church changed Scripture?

You better ask Protestant that one! Ask them why they removed 7 seven books from the Old Testament while also removing Hebrews, James, Jude and Revelation from the New Testament. That was the original Protestant Bible. Some time later, they thought they made a mistake and put the four New Testament books back into their Bible.

Also, what do Catholics today think about the Inquisition? I am ashamed of the terrible things that happened during it, but I don’t know if this belief is shared by the rest of the Church?

I’m sure the previous posts by others have dealt with this but just an addition to what they posted.

Ask them what do they think of the Mosaic inquisition Deuteronomy 13:12-18. Inquisition is a formal inquiry.

Also in Deut 17:12 “Any man who has the insolence to refuse to listen to a priest who officiates there in the ministry of the Lord, your God, or to the judge, shall die. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst.”

Paul also repeats this principle in 1 Cor 5:13. “Purge the evil from your midst”

What do they think about those scriptures?

Also ask them if they are aware that Protestants also did Inquisitions. Luther and Calvin both endorsed the right of the state to protect society by purging false religion. Calvin executed others for heresy. Example: Jacques Gouet, tortured and beheaded in 1547, Michael Servetus, burned at the stake in 1553.

In England and Ireland, Protestant Reformers also engaged on their ruthless Inquisitions and many English and Irish Catholics were put to death, many by being hanged, drawn, and quartered for practicing the Catholic faith and refusing to become Protestant. Example: Henry VIII executed St. Thomas More and Elizabeth I executed St. Edmund Campion.

Also Martin Luther advocated the killing of Anabaptist leaders and the burning of Jewish synagogues while Anabaptists seized the town of Munster in 1534 and killed many people.

What are all these to them?

Sorry for the questions and for how misinformed I seem, but I just would like to learn more about why people hate the Church so that I can set them straight.

Then you have come to the right place. You can also ask our well informed apologists. They are very good people.

 

[jewells17]

Hey Catholic teen… I know exactly what you are talking about! Been there and want to share three things I came to know…gradually. First…I finally had to face the words of Christ. If I follow Him…will I be popular ? Nope…hated…as was He. Second…I found www.crossveil.org and then third…I found www.christiananswersforthenewage.org and came to understand alot. These websites are worth going to for wisdom. God bless you.

 

[jewells17]

Catholic teen…one more thing. The website that helped me understand the Catholic bashing I even still encounter is www.christiananswersforthenewage.org or com. Go there and send others that seek truth.

 

[skeebo55]

Last year I heard a local translator religious radio station which is owned and operated by a very bigoted pentecostal. They accuse everyone (except themselves) of being unscriptural and preaching false doctrine . In short, they are real flame throwers! However, it had the opposite effect on me as it started me to check on some of their statements . I have read Rod Bennett’s “Four Witnesses” and Ken Whitehead"s “One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic.” Both books are from Ignatius Press and can be purchased through any catholic website or Amazon or Barnes and Noble. So sometimes catholic bashing can get us off of dead center and do us a favor. Some of the stuff they claim is so outlandis that even a headstart dropout can see that its false.

 

[jpunto7]

From my personal experiences and from reading these posts, I noticed that you have to make sure the source is trustworthy to be able to believe it.
Think of it this way: Who is more trustworthy between Tim Staples and Dan Brown? Or perhaps Scott Hahn compared to (in my experience) Chuck Smith (or in my case, his Calvary Chapel “minions”). This should be quite obvious when you take the time to examine it.

 

[PJM]

I admit, I don’t know much about my faith. I am learning more every day, and I strive to learn much, much more.

I have heard: “The Catholic church, was one of the original 3 christian churches. But they were quickly overcome with corruption. Just about ever time they change some part of scripture, they lose some catholics who leave and start another church…”

FYI: Please read Mt. 16:18-19…

For nearly 1,600 years their was only thee Catholic Church. Yes it was split into Roman and Eastern and Western Orthodox Catholic’s but with One God, One Faith, One Baptism, Seven Sacraments, One Bible and the same Dogma and Doctrine [except the primacy of Rome]. All have and maintained direct Apolostolic Succession.

Has the Church changed Scripture? Also, what do Catholics today think about the Inquisition? I am ashamed of the terrible things that happened during it, but I don’t know if this belief is shared by the rest of the Church?

The Bible we know today was actually written by the end of the First Century. Parts in Greek, parts in Latin and parts in Hebrew. Between the years 350 and 400 AD, St, Jerome translated all of the books into the then common language of Latin. It was called the “Latin Vulgate” and it remains the core of all of today’s bibles.

After the Protestant Revoluation around 1,600 Luther and Calvin determined that it would be good to have a “Common Language” bible that people could read and translate for themselves. Up to this point the CC had firmly resisted doing this for fear of numerious wrong understandings, but in order to not lose Catholics to the other rebel churches, Mother Church published in English around the year 1,650 [10 years before the KJV] a "common language Bible] and it is known as the “Douay-Rheims” bible which is recogonized as the most complete and accurate bible in a “mother-tongue.” [It can be found on the net.] Of signifiant note in this same period of time that Protestants grew to over 30,000 different denominations, The CC who too is world-wide only has 22 brances. Credit this to understanding that Mother tongue or not, ONLY THEE Catholic Church who has a mandate to interpet the Bible is able to do so.

It was NOT Catholics but Protestants who decided that after 1.500 years in use that seven of the books “were not inspired” [these books remain intac in the Catholic Bible] and additionally many other changes were made by THEM to conform to the personal ideas of the folks who thought that they knew more and knew better. NOT!

Today after 2,000 years there is still the Catholic Bible and the CC now has 22 conected branches, believing the same dogma’s and Doctrines founded on the same Bible.

Protestants on the other hand with their free-thinking self interpation have in about 400 years [1/4 of the time of the CC] in excess of 30,000 different christian denominations, each doing and beleiving what they choose, and rejecting everything they don’t agree with.

Also, is this actually a part of the Jesuit oath? If so, can someone explain it? “I furthermore promise and declare that I will, when opportunity present, make and wage relentless war, secretly or openly, against all heretics, Protestants and Liberals, as I am directed to do, to extirpate and exterminate them from the face of the whole earth; and that I will spare neither age, sex or condition; and that I will hang, waste, boil, flay, strangle and bury alive these infamous heretics, rip up the stomachs and wombs of their women and crush their infants’ heads against the walls, in order to annihilate forever their execrable race. That when the same cannot be done openly, I will secretly use the poisoned cup, the strangulating cord, the steel of the poniard or the leaden bullet, regardless of the honor, rank, dignity, or authority of the person or persons, whatever may be their condition in life, either public or private, as I at any time may be directed so to do by any agent of the Pope or Superior of the Brotherhood of the Holy Faith, of the Society of Jesus.”

How many Churches were actually founded by Jesus Himself? Only One, His Catholic Church. What you have quoted here was a mis-directed enthuism to protect and spread Catholism. When the Jesuits were founded Moslems were at war with Christinity and the OT “eye for an eye” mentality was still common. Certainly this oath is nowhere close to what the current oath is.

Sorry for the questions and for how misinformed I seem, but I just would like to learn more about why people hate the Church so that I can set them straight.

The reason most folks hate us is because we have Chrsit, Truth and the Bible on our side. They need to destroy us in order to justify their 30,000+ church’s.

Mt. 5: 11 “Blessed are you when men revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so men persecuted the prophets who were before you.”

John 15:20 20 Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will persecute you;"

Mt. 16:24 24 Then Jesus told his disciples, "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. 25 For whoever would save his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.

Love and prayers friend,

 

[Fan_of_M_Ricci]

I’m terribly sorry, but I feel you’re response to the Jesuit oath is too apologetic. This alleged oath is an outright lie! Jesuits never made it!

How many Churches were actually founded by Jesus Himself? Only One, His Catholic Church. What you have quoted here was a mis-directed enthuism to protect and spread Catholism. When the Jesuits were founded Moslems were at war with Christinity and the OT “eye for an eye” mentality was still common. Certainly this oath is nowhere close to what the current oath is.

 

[sfoscott]

Protestants bring up the inquistion without really knowing the facts, just trying to win an arguement no matter how it must be bent, I usually bring up the arguement that slavery in this country was a protestant movement, which it was, and was directly responcible with killing hundreds of thousands, and also the witch hunts in Mass.(I’m a history teacher by the way). They don’t expect for Catholics to be armed with acturate info. like that. If we could only help them to understand that while we may never meet in the same pews, we can all spiritually meet on our knees together,worshipping God! And with much more pressing issues like abortion on demand and doctor assisted suicide of the elderly, we need to join together on these cultural issues. The non-believers enjoy keeping us pitted against one another, arguing who God loves the most, or why one group feels God loves them more ( trust me, He is big enough to love us all). Catholics are really the only group that speaks out on the important moral issues that face humanity today with one strong voice, if only the protestants were not spintered into 50,000 differents sects with differing teachings coming out of each different church (relativism at it’s best) we could actually work together to make our voices heard and to speak for the truly weak among us in our society and the world society as a whole. PAX

 

[OmegaSupreme]

I think the quote about the 3 different churches has been misunderstood. I think what the OP was referring to are what is seen as the three main branches of Christianity within the first several hundred years: The Jewish Christians, Pauline Christians, and Gnostics. This view is generally a strictly secular one and is propagated by websites such as religioustolerance.org. You can see this for yourself at the following link:

religioustolerance.org/chr_brief2.htm

Just keep in mind that this is a VERY generalized description of these three branches, and is also rife with inaccuracies. Unfortunately many people seem to use it to base their arguments against Christianity, as I once did myself.

 

[Randy_Carson]

I admit, I don’t know much about my faith. I am learning more every day, and I strive to learn much, much more.

I have heard: "The Catholic church, was one of the original 3 christian churches. But they were quickly overcome with corruption.

Ah…the old “off the rails” argument. Is it possible for the Church to go off the rails - according to scripture?

The Infallibility of the Catholic Church Proved from Scripture

The following verses suggest that the Catholic Church is protected by God from ever teaching error in matters of faith and morals, and questions concerning each verse are provided as food for thought.

Matthew 16:18
And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.

Q: If Jesus promised to build his own church and that Church ever fell into doctrinal error, would this mean that a) Jesus was a liar, b) Jesus did not have the power to protect his own church, or c) Jesus was incompetent as a church builder?

Matthew 28:20
And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.

Q: If the Church fell into doctrinal error at any time during the nearly 1500 years before the Protestant Reformation, did Jesus remain with the Church “always”?

John 14:15-16
15"If you love me, you will obey what I command. 16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever—

Q: If the Church ever fell into doctrinal error, did Jesus not give the Counselor or did the Counselor simply fail to remain with the Church “forever”?

John 14:18
18I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.

Q: If the Church ever fell into doctrinal error, did Jesus actually leave us as “orphans” during all that time?

John 14:26
26But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

Q: Despite this promise, did the Holy Spirit fail to teach the Church “all things” or to remind the Church of the things that Jesus had said to the Apostles?

John 16:13
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

Q: Did the Holy Spirit fail to guide the Church into all truth?

Now, consider the following three verses:

1 John 4:4
4You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world.

1 Timothy 3:13
15if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

Mark 3:27
27In fact, no one can enter a strong man’s house and carry off his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man. Then he can rob his house.

Q: Is Satan stronger than Jesus, is the Church the household of God, and can Satan rob the Church of the deposit of truth by “binding” Jesus in any way?

In light of the above, is it possible that the Church fell into doctrinal error? Taken individually, each of these verses creates a problem for those that assert that the Church “went off the rails” at some point in history. Taken as a whole, they portray Christ’s own involvement in building, nurturing and protecting His Church until the end of time. The Catholic Church remains strong and vibrant – not by her own efforts or innate qualities – but because God Himself is leading and guiding her to ensure that “the gates of hell will not overcome it.”

 

[redhen]

That supposed Jesuit motto was pretty bizarre; it definitely looks like it was made up by opponents.

Another supposed Jesuit motto that keeps being quoted all over the place is “Give me the child until he is seven and I will show you the man”. If you do a quick Google search you will find otherwise scholarly writers quoting this as if it were fact.

I have not found any reputable source for this quote.

 

[tobinatorstark]

I admit, I don’t know much about my faith. I am learning more every day, and I strive to learn much, much more.

I have heard: “The Catholic church, was one of the original 3 christian churches. But they were quickly overcome with corruption. Just about ever time they change some part of scripture, they lose some catholics who leave and start another church…”

Has the Church changed Scripture? Also, what do Catholics today think about the Inquisition? I am ashamed of the terrible things that happened during it, but I don’t know if this belief is shared by the rest of the Church?

Also, is this actually a part of the Jesuit oath? If so, can someone explain it? “I furthermore promise and declare that I will, when opportunity present, make and wage relentless war, secretly or openly, against all heretics, Protestants and Liberals, as I am directed to do, to extirpate and exterminate them from the face of the whole earth; and that I will spare neither age, sex or condition; and that I will hang, waste, boil, flay, strangle and bury alive these infamous heretics, rip up the stomachs and wombs of their women and crush their infants’ heads against the walls, in order to annihilate forever their execrable race. That when the same cannot be done openly, I will secretly use the poisoned cup, the strangulating cord, the steel of the poniard or the leaden bullet, regardless of the honor, rank, dignity, or authority of the person or persons, whatever may be their condition in life, either public or private, as I at any time may be directed so to do by any agent of the Pope or Superior of the Brotherhood of the Holy Faith, of the Society of Jesus.”

Sorry for the questions and for how misinformed I seem, but I just would like to learn more about why people hate the Church so that I can set them straight.

That is good that you want to be informed about your faith. Catholics have not changed scripture. Protestants have removed 7 books of the OT and parts of Esther and Daniel. I would suggest that buying a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church would be a start. I also recommend purchasing a copy of the Douay-Rheims. This is the best Bible to refute Protestant misconceptions. Another great book to help you learn more about Catholicism to refute Catholic bashers is Matthew Kelly’s book Rediscovering Catholicism. It is very simple and to the point. I personally don’t know much about the Jesuites. The Society of Jesus is wonderful and I would encourage you find their website and learn a bit more of what the Jesuites are all about.

 

[quami]

Hi HorseJumperCTS

It is inspiring that a person of your age wants to know their faith.

Take solace in the fact that most protestants dont know anything about the faith and are only taught be other protestants or catholic who have no clue to what their faith teaches.

In terms of the inquisition:

take solace in the fact that from the inquisition came the modern form of jurisprudence (Court system and law)

Also take solace in the fact the the statistics of millions is a fabricated lie spun by protestants of the time. EG There were only 2 inquisitor in the langwedock in France where the Albigensian heretics were most active. (an inquisition was sent up to fight this heresy). so millions of people been tried is ludicrous.

There were people tried and burned at the stake but these were a few thousand and most of them if not all knew what there fate was and choose to die in heresy.

people who were tried by an inquisition were given the right to form a defense, question their accusers. also people who had a grudge or were know to be hostile to the defendant could not be called to be witnesses against them.

there was three distinct inquisitions not one distinct all encompassing inquistion.

1. was the inquisition that stamped out the Albigensian heresy
2. Spanish (protected the conversos Jews and Muslims who converted to catholicism)
3. Roman (tried Galileo)

if you wish to know more purchase a series called fire and sword by Michael Arnold
you can find it here:

saintjoe.com/prodinfo.asp?number=6466

Remember the more you learn about you faith the more you become an informed catholic and the more you can defend it.

You will be in my prayers.

Cheers,

Quami