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Holly3278
Guest
guardian.co.uk/world/2012/oct/05/catholic-revolution-nazi-dictatorship-pope?fb=optOut
It looks like the infamous Hans Kung is at it again. We must pray for him that he will be converted to orthodox Catholicism.
Catholic theologian preaches revolution to end church's 'authoritarian' rule
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It looks like the infamous Hans Kung is at it again. We must pray for him that he will be converted to orthodox Catholicism.
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RPRPsych
Guest
More evidence for the sad effects that Liberalism and Protestantism have had on the Catholic Church, and especially its theologians.
Obviously he hasn’t learnt his lession. And his use of Nazi rhetoric automatically dismisses him (Godwin’s Law, anyone?)
Praying hard for him and his “separated brethren”.
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Faithdancer
Guest
Funny that Kung accuses Pope Benedict XVI of pride, but Kung is happy to dabble in show business. What a grandstander he is! And as far as being a great theologian, I’ll take Joseph Ratzinger over Hans Kung any day.
Here is a sample of Kung’s “brilliant” theology- which seems more like revisionist heresy to me: “The eternity of the “punishment of hell” (of the “fire”), asserted in some New Testament metaphorical expressions, remains subject to God and to his will. Individual New Testament texts, which are not balanced by others, suggest the consummation of a salvation of all, an all-embracing mercy.”
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presidentjlh
Guest
Can we stop calling him a “Catholic” theologian, because this guy clearly is not Catholic.
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George_Stegmeir
Guest
What no one on this site has mentioned so far is that Although Hans Kung is still a priest, he was stripped of his license to teach Catholic Theology several years ago.
Although he still teaches at a Catholic University in Germany, he is restricted to teaching philosophy, and that only in an Emeritus status. He, after all is 82 years old.
He had better watch out, because Pope Benedict is not as easy going and liberal about such things as was his predecessor, Pope John Paul II. Father Kung could very well find himself either silenced or stripped of his priestly faculties, or both-by his local Bishop in Germany!
Although he still teaches at a Catholic University in Germany, he is restricted to teaching philosophy, and that only in an Emeritus status. He, after all is 82 years old.
He had better watch out, because Pope Benedict is not as easy going and liberal about such things as was his predecessor, Pope John Paul II. Father Kung could very well find himself either silenced or stripped of his priestly faculties, or both-by his local Bishop in Germany!
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bzkoss236
Guest
Amen!
My future MIL gave me one of his books to read that she herself read. I haven’t been able to get past the first chapter because of how full of ignorance and arrogance. He claims to be a theologian, but he doesn’t seem to know a thing about Church theology, despite what his credentials show. He is ignorant of Church history, and in his book (what I have read of it) he hasn’t shown the Church’s argument for anything, he just gives his reasons why whatever he believes should be allowed.
Since I can’t finish it, I might as well give it back… but what to say to her?
I’m so glad my fiancee isn’t like her mother
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Crescentinus
Guest
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april32010
Guest
yes we can,because he isn’t allowed to anymore. in 1979, he was stripped of his missio canonica, his licence to teach as a Roman Catholic theologian.
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IanGE
Guest
I think I’d better stay shtum… Its clear that the majority on this forum think the church heirarchy are NOT authoritarian, dictatorial and dogmatic.
Its clear that the majority on this forum think the church heirarchy are NOT authoritarian, dictatorial and dogmatic.
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mountee
Guest
Agreed!
I appreciate the opportunity to read this article but it disturbed me greatly. Recently I had a conversation with an old friend who had been called a “so-called” Catholic in a letter to the editor of her town’s newspaper. She is one of several people gathering signatures and support for the LCWR. In response to a letter she had written to the paper in support of this group she was categorized among the so-called Catholics of this country, people who call themselves Catholic but do not agree with or obey many of the Churches rules. She would perhaps agree in spirit with most of what Kung puts forth, although she would probably stop short of the Nazi comparisons. She is only one of millions like her I believe and so while we pray for his conversion to Orthodox Catholicism we better just include those millions of others around the world who are in the same place with the Church and the rules and the hierarchy as Kung is. The tradition and familiarity and comfort of those traditions have people calling themselves a Catholic while they are not practicing Catholics.
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april32010
Guest
why would we,their not.I think I’d better stay shtum…
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bpcatholic
Guest
Kueng recently published a book on this matter. Not sure if it has been translated into english yet. I have seen it in bookstores. I was tempted to buy it, but decided to see if I can find it in a library soon. I want to read it, but I don’t think it’s worth all the money if I bought it myself. Anyway, I do agree with him that the Church needs to reform. There have been enough scandals the past few decades. However, I disagree with how the Church needs to reform. He wants women ordination, and he wants bishops to be elected democratically by the laity, etc. The Church’s structure and doctrines are just fine.
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bzkoss236
Guest
He must have forgotten that God rules us, we don’t rule God. Jesus chose the apostles, and the apostles chose the first bishops, it wasn’t the laity that chose. That’s like saying the laity chose Jesus to be the ultimate head (King) of the Church.
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Nagoda
Guest
For what it’s worth, I think Fr. Kung is right: the CDF, the Curia and the Pope have strayed so far from the Gospel message. In an obssession over things like “Orthodoxy”, and a “smaller, purer Church”, they have become more concerned with over the fine details and rubrics of the Gospel and Dogmas than what lies at the heart of them: which is God and His Infinite Love. They are acting like the Pharisees in the Gospels. That might be harsh of me to say, but I believe it to be true and I stand by my convictions. I’ve never understood why my fellow Catholics seem to be so concerned about purity in terms of belief and teaching than rather about “purity of heart”, which I think is much more important. Some of you say that the Devil infiltrated the Church with Liberalism and the like.
Rather I say if the Devil is up to anything, he’s done a very good job of convincing you all to act in the opposite manner of our Lord and pulled the wool over your eyes. Jesus would not push the “Heretics” and “Liberals” out of his Church: rather, I’m convinced, based on his character as espoused by the Gospels, he’d welcome them to his Table for his Feast, just like the prositutes, and the tax collectors and the outcasts of his day. How sad is it that members of our own Church are being outcast instead of shown the love that Christ would show them. You kick Kung out because he doesn’t believe in the infalliblity of the Pope, or the Dogma of the Immaculate Conception, yet you don’t do the same for the Greek Orthodox who believe the same (while some Orthodox do believe in the Immaculate Conception, it is important to note that they do not accept it on the level of a Dogma as defined by a Council)? Really then you should take your arguement to the logical conclusion that they’re heretics because they don’t believe in the infallibility of the Magisterium or the Pope either. Shouldn’t they be kicked out too?
Look at what you’re doing: by the time the Devil’s done with you all you’ll have all kicked each other out because you’re all not “Pure” or “Orthodox” enough for each other. The Roman Church will be so small by the end it will evapourate. Why are you demonizing these people? Why do you call them names? Why do you say, “you don’t belong (for x reason), leave!” when our Lord would never have done such a thing? We’re all sinful, we’re all broken: don’t think you’re better, “Purer”, “more Orthodox” than them because you think you’ve got it all worked out! You don’t, and they don’t either, but at least they want to discuss issues and debate matters rather than saying “that’s heresey, we don’t want to listen to you, we’re right, God told us so” like children! Have you ever thought that maybe, just maybe, the Holy Spirit can’t protect the Church from error because she is unwilling to listen to the Spirit? Have you ever thought that if the Church has erred, it’s because God can’t interfere with our free will to choose not to listen to him because He loves us that much? Why should God take away the Magisterium’s, and for that matter the Roman Magisterium’s, ability to choose not to listen to Him when He speaks? Is Rome so special, so above the rest of us, that she get’s special treatment and is forced to listen to God? That God breaks His rules just for her? And have you ever thought, that maybe, just maybe, if the Church does err that because the Holy Spirit gudes her that he will correct her error when she is ready to listen?
In our quest for Orthodoxy, Purity, and a concern over “who’s right”, we have forgotten to follow that which is always true, and that’s God’s Infinite Love as revealed in Christ. In doing so, we’ve forgotten God and have let the Devil run amok. Never forget what it means to follow Christ with your actions and not just pay him lip service. That goes for both sides. Both sides, “Orthodox” and “Heretic”, need to come together at the Table and discuss the issues, including the ones no one wants to touch with a ten foot pole, and for once let the Holy Spirit speak and not claim the other is right. We must let go of our pride and let God speak, Hans Kung and Rome included.
What has happened to this Church? God open our ears and hearts so that we may listen to You! For once in our lives! In the name of Jesus, Amen!
I’m going to go pray for us all. Please think twice about calling me a Heretic and saying I should leave the Church: ask yourself if Jesus saw the situation if he’d do the same.
I love you all, and I hate to be this blunt and harsh, but I can’t stand it when I see you ripping my brother in Christ to shreds like that. Remember that God loves you and that you need to act like Christ in following him: that includes welcoming those who believe and teach differently than you: they’re God’s children too, don’t forgret.
God Bless, and I hope I don’t get banned from here for what I just said, but honestly, it needed saying!
ducks his head and begins to pray
Rather I say if the Devil is up to anything, he’s done a very good job of convincing you all to act in the opposite manner of our Lord and pulled the wool over your eyes. Jesus would not push the “Heretics” and “Liberals” out of his Church: rather, I’m convinced, based on his character as espoused by the Gospels, he’d welcome them to his Table for his Feast, just like the prositutes, and the tax collectors and the outcasts of his day. How sad is it that members of our own Church are being outcast instead of shown the love that Christ would show them. You kick Kung out because he doesn’t believe in the infalliblity of the Pope, or the Dogma of the Immaculate Conception, yet you don’t do the same for the Greek Orthodox who believe the same (while some Orthodox do believe in the Immaculate Conception, it is important to note that they do not accept it on the level of a Dogma as defined by a Council)? Really then you should take your arguement to the logical conclusion that they’re heretics because they don’t believe in the infallibility of the Magisterium or the Pope either. Shouldn’t they be kicked out too?
Look at what you’re doing: by the time the Devil’s done with you all you’ll have all kicked each other out because you’re all not “Pure” or “Orthodox” enough for each other. The Roman Church will be so small by the end it will evapourate. Why are you demonizing these people? Why do you call them names? Why do you say, “you don’t belong (for x reason), leave!” when our Lord would never have done such a thing? We’re all sinful, we’re all broken: don’t think you’re better, “Purer”, “more Orthodox” than them because you think you’ve got it all worked out! You don’t, and they don’t either, but at least they want to discuss issues and debate matters rather than saying “that’s heresey, we don’t want to listen to you, we’re right, God told us so” like children! Have you ever thought that maybe, just maybe, the Holy Spirit can’t protect the Church from error because she is unwilling to listen to the Spirit? Have you ever thought that if the Church has erred, it’s because God can’t interfere with our free will to choose not to listen to him because He loves us that much? Why should God take away the Magisterium’s, and for that matter the Roman Magisterium’s, ability to choose not to listen to Him when He speaks? Is Rome so special, so above the rest of us, that she get’s special treatment and is forced to listen to God? That God breaks His rules just for her? And have you ever thought, that maybe, just maybe, if the Church does err that because the Holy Spirit gudes her that he will correct her error when she is ready to listen?
In our quest for Orthodoxy, Purity, and a concern over “who’s right”, we have forgotten to follow that which is always true, and that’s God’s Infinite Love as revealed in Christ. In doing so, we’ve forgotten God and have let the Devil run amok. Never forget what it means to follow Christ with your actions and not just pay him lip service. That goes for both sides. Both sides, “Orthodox” and “Heretic”, need to come together at the Table and discuss the issues, including the ones no one wants to touch with a ten foot pole, and for once let the Holy Spirit speak and not claim the other is right. We must let go of our pride and let God speak, Hans Kung and Rome included.
What has happened to this Church? God open our ears and hearts so that we may listen to You! For once in our lives! In the name of Jesus, Amen!
I’m going to go pray for us all. Please think twice about calling me a Heretic and saying I should leave the Church: ask yourself if Jesus saw the situation if he’d do the same.
I love you all, and I hate to be this blunt and harsh, but I can’t stand it when I see you ripping my brother in Christ to shreds like that. Remember that God loves you and that you need to act like Christ in following him: that includes welcoming those who believe and teach differently than you: they’re God’s children too, don’t forgret.
God Bless, and I hope I don’t get banned from here for what I just said, but honestly, it needed saying!
ducks his head and begins to pray
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Robert_Bay
Guest
The Vatican has rescinded his authority to teach Catholic theology, he his not a prominent Catholic theologian.
Thread closed.
Thread closed.
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