Catholic Thinking in Protestant songs

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Has anyone else noticed this?

First, for those who don’t know, I am a convert from evangelical Protestantism.

I admit that I am not into CCM. IMHO, the last truly good CCM was written in the 1970s, and once 2nd Chapter of Acts broke up, the music died!

But that’s JMHO! I realize that I am a fuddy duddy.

My husband enjoys CCM, and usually keeps our radio on the local Protestant station. He hears songs all the time that have Catholic thoughts. In fact, some songs are so Catholic that he wonders if the composer is a “Closet Catholic.”

Let me give you an example of one song in particular: “How Beautiful.”

I’ve actually heard Catholics sing this song in Mass (as a Communion meditation).

I used to love this song when I was Protestant. But I love it even more now that I am Catholic because the song means a lot more.

Perhaps some of you have other examples of Protestant-written songs that sound more Catholic than Protestant. I would love to hear about more examples.

I’ve written about 70 songs myself, and I am amazed at how many of them are extremely Catholic! Several of my songs have themes of angels and saints watching over us and helping us, a thought that is very foreign to evangelicals. Angels, yes. saints–that’s necromancy!

One of my songs–believe it or not!–is about the Joyful Mysteries, the Sorrowful Mysteries, and the Glorious Mysteries (minus the Assumption and Crowning of our Blessed Mother)–and the song was about LIGHT (the Lumimous Mysteries!). My husband loves this song!

How did I write this???!!! I didn’t know anything about the Rosary back in the 1980s!

And the song that seems to really resonate with Catholics in my parish is called, “It’s Time To Hold The Baby.” It’s about holding the Baby Jesus–now y’all know that evangelical Protestants DO NOT take seriously any type “Infant Jesus” devotion! Yet, I wrote this song in 1986 and the Protestants in my Christian and Missionary Alliance Church loved it. And last year, when my daughter sang it at my parish, most of the people were crying, and I STILL get asked if she is going to sing it again this year.

The song is even better when you can look up and see the Infant of Prague!

I wrote a simple children’s song called “The Boo Boo Song,” and my daughter (who is converting to Catholicism), wrote an essay about how this song describes the intercessory ministry of Mary.

I’ve actually thought about writing a book about my “Catholic songs!”

Does anyone else think that there is a lot of longing among Protestants for “home?” Is that why they write songs with Catholic thinking?

(BTW, I have never had a song professionally recorded by an artist, or published. Sorry. I just wrote them for my church, my friends and family, and myself. Wrote a lot of children’s songs, since then we didn’t have to worry about copyright laws.)
 
i would say the songs have a Christian theme, not just a catholic theme. remember, we share more in common they we differ.
 
Yeah, I don’t understand this one either. There are a lot of Protestant hymns in Catholic song books. Does this mean that there is Protestant thinking in Catholic songs? :confused:
 
O.S.Luke said:
Yeah, I don’t understand this one either. There are a lot of Protestant hymns in Catholic song books. Does this mean that there is Protestant thinking in Catholic songs? :confused:
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ahhhh… touch`e

lol
 
For what it’s worth, I personally think you’re right Cat!

Every soul longs for its Maker! Even when hemmed in and ‘contained’ by the ‘mind and free will’ of the individual.

Song writing is mostly a ‘soulfull’ exercise. Most songwriters who write in search of fame, only engage the mind in their writings about their expriences. Some engage both heart and mind, and you can tell which songs have more substance to them when this occurs.

Religious song writers sometimes do the same. Soul music and religious writers engage heart, mind and soul in their writings. You can read it in the lyrics! This is true of all ‘religions.’ You should hear and understand some Islamic or Indian songs!!

I’ve listened to and watched so many Protestant ‘music fests’ during their services that you could hear their soul cry out to its Maker!..but I always get the feeling that it is just short of ‘something.’ It’s like the song lyrics surpasses what they comprehend!!

Maybe I’m just too Catholic!

:cool:
 
Cat said:
Has anyone else noticed this?

First, for those who don’t know, I am a convert from evangelical Protestantism.

I admit that I am not into CCM. IMHO, the last truly good CCM was written in the 1970s, and once 2nd Chapter of Acts broke up, the music died!

But that’s JMHO! I realize that I am a fuddy duddy.

My husband enjoys CCM, and usually keeps our radio on the local Protestant station. He hears songs all the time that have Catholic thoughts. In fact, some songs are so Catholic that he wonders if the composer is a “Closet Catholic.”

Let me give you an example of one song in particular: “How Beautiful.”

I’ve actually heard Catholics sing this song in Mass (as a Communion meditation).

I used to love this song when I was Protestant. But I love it even more now that I am Catholic because the song means a lot more.

Perhaps some of you have other examples of Protestant-written songs that sound more Catholic than Protestant. I would love to hear about more examples.

I’ve written about 70 songs myself, and I am amazed at how many of them are extremely Catholic! Several of my songs have themes of angels and saints watching over us and helping us, a thought that is very foreign to evangelicals. Angels, yes. saints–that’s necromancy!

One of my songs–believe it or not!–is about the Joyful Mysteries, the Sorrowful Mysteries, and the Glorious Mysteries (minus the Assumption and Crowning of our Blessed Mother)–and the song was about LIGHT (the Lumimous Mysteries!). My husband loves this song!

How did I write this???!!! I didn’t know anything about the Rosary back in the 1980s!

And the song that seems to really resonate with Catholics in my parish is called, “It’s Time To Hold The Baby.” It’s about holding the Baby Jesus–now y’all know that evangelical Protestants DO NOT take seriously any type “Infant Jesus” devotion! Yet, I wrote this song in 1986 and the Protestants in my Christian and Missionary Alliance Church loved it. And last year, when my daughter sang it at my parish, most of the people were crying, and I STILL get asked if she is going to sing it again this year.

The song is even better when you can look up and see the Infant of Prague!

I wrote a simple children’s song called “The Boo Boo Song,” and my daughter (who is converting to Catholicism), wrote an essay about how this song describes the intercessory ministry of Mary.

I’ve actually thought about writing a book about my “Catholic songs!”

Does anyone else think that there is a lot of longing among Protestants for “home?” Is that why they write songs with Catholic thinking?

(BTW, I have never had a song professionally recorded by an artist, or published. Sorry. I just wrote them for my church, my friends and family, and myself. Wrote a lot of children’s songs, since then we didn’t have to worry about copyright laws.)
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Maybe the saints will all come marching in someday?

I have met an anglican, former Catholic, and we sing together and she carries a medal of St. Michael , which is also the name of her son, so i gave her a prayer card, I told her my being Catholic we can still pray for her son who just returned from Iraque.
They do have a longing that is a very good word the best I have heard on these forums since I have been posting.
D.
 
Certainly the Catholic heritage of the West is preserved somewhat in Christmas songs and traditions, hence the “infant Jesus” overlap. As for the others, I’m not familiar with any CCM songs; but I do know that in the specific hymnal that my church uses (Living Hymns), faithfulness to the evangelical tradition was paramount in the editors’ selection process and the hymns do not betray any non-Protestant influence (except, as noted above, in some Christmas songs). Even those songs in it that were actually from Catholic origins include nothing inconsistent with pure Protestantism.

Modern songwriting tends to be much less careful regarding such things, so I’d expect the overlap to increase. If an idea or sentiment sounds “spiritual,” there’s not much to keep it out of a song.

On the other hand, I attended a Catholic funeral a few years back and all of the songs were Protestant. Go figure.
 
I’m not into CCM but it is really strange how Protestants shy away from images of the cross and avoid crucifixes altogether. Yet there are scores of traditional Protestant songs that venerate the cross. The grandaddy of them all is “The Old Rugged Cross,” written by George Bennard in 1913. Bennard became a Christian at a Salvation Army revival meeting and worked for them as an officer in their organization for a time. Later he became a traveling evangelist for the Methodist church. Here are the words to his most famous hymn:

On a hill far away, stood an old rugged cross,
The emblem of suff’ring and shame;
And I love that old cross where the dearest and best
For a world of lost sinners was slain.

Oh, that old rugged cross so despised by the world
Has a wondrous attraction for me;
For the dear Lamb of God left his glory above,
To bear it to dark Calvary.

In the old rugged cross, stained with blood so divine,
A wondrous beauty I see;
For 'twas on that old cross Jesus suffered and died,
To pardon and sanctify me.

To the old rugged cross I will ever be true,
Its shame and reproach gladly bear;
Then he’ll call me some day to my home far away,
Where his glory forever I’ll share.

So I’ll cherish the rugged cross,
Till my trophies at last I lay down’
I will cling to the old rugged cross,
And exchange it some day for a crown.
 
The main difference between catholic and protestant songs is that Catholic songs incorporate ‘we’ and ‘our’ whereas Protestant songs are based on ‘I’ and ‘me’. That says a lot theologically.
 
peary said:
The main difference between catholic and protestant songs is that Catholic songs incorporate ‘we’ and ‘our’ whereas Protestant songs are based on ‘I’ and ‘me’. That says a lot theologically.
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You’re thinking the more recent praise/chorus contemporary songs. Traditional hymnody is more corporate:

A Mighty Fortress Is Our God
Come, Thou Almighty King, help us thy name to sing…
All Creatures of Our God and King
Angels We Have Heard on High
What a Friend We Have in Jesus

As far as shying away from crosses… what about the hymns “Lift High the Cross?” “When I Survey the Wondrous Cross?” “Beneath the Cross of Jesus?” “In the Cross of Christ I Glory?”

Just to name a few.

O+
 
O.S.Luke said:
You’re thinking the more recent praise/chorus contemporary songs. Traditional hymnody is more corporate:

A Mighty Fortress Is Our God
Come, Thou Almighty King, help us thy name to sing…
All Creatures of Our God and King
Angels We Have Heard on High
What a Friend We Have in Jesus

As far as shying away from crosses… what about the hymns “Lift High the Cross?” “When I Survey the Wondrous Cross?” “Beneath the Cross of Jesus?” “In the Cross of Christ I Glory?”

Just to name a few.

O+
Click to expand...
Those are a few out of many. Once again, the main thrust of Protestant hymns is based on ‘I’ and ‘me’; Catholic hymns and songs are more corporate with ‘we’ and ‘our’. Protestant hymns that are corporate have no problem being sung in Catholic churches. Most of the songs noted above have Catholic origins.
 
Cat said:
Has anyone else noticed this?

First, for those who don’t know, I am a convert from evangelical Protestantism.

I admit that I am not into CCM. IMHO, the last truly good CCM was written in the 1970s, and once 2nd Chapter of Acts broke up, the music died!

But that’s JMHO! I realize that I am a fuddy duddy.

My husband enjoys CCM, and usually keeps our radio on the local Protestant station. He hears songs all the time that have Catholic thoughts. In fact, some songs are so Catholic that he wonders if the composer is a “Closet Catholic.”

Let me give you an example of one song in particular: “How Beautiful.”

I’ve actually heard Catholics sing this song in Mass (as a Communion meditation).

I used to love this song when I was Protestant. But I love it even more now that I am Catholic because the song means a lot more.

Perhaps some of you have other examples of Protestant-written songs that sound more Catholic than Protestant. I would love to hear about more examples.

I’ve written about 70 songs myself, and I am amazed at how many of them are extremely Catholic! Several of my songs have themes of angels and saints watching over us and helping us, a thought that is very foreign to evangelicals. Angels, yes. saints–that’s necromancy!

One of my songs–believe it or not!–is about the Joyful Mysteries, the Sorrowful Mysteries, and the Glorious Mysteries (minus the Assumption and Crowning of our Blessed Mother)–and the song was about LIGHT (the Lumimous Mysteries!). My husband loves this song!

How did I write this???!!! I didn’t know anything about the Rosary back in the 1980s!

And the song that seems to really resonate with Catholics in my parish is called, “It’s Time To Hold The Baby.” It’s about holding the Baby Jesus–now y’all know that evangelical Protestants DO NOT take seriously any type “Infant Jesus” devotion! Yet, I wrote this song in 1986 and the Protestants in my Christian and Missionary Alliance Church loved it. And last year, when my daughter sang it at my parish, most of the people were crying, and I STILL get asked if she is going to sing it again this year.

The song is even better when you can look up and see the Infant of Prague!

I wrote a simple children’s song called “The Boo Boo Song,” and my daughter (who is converting to Catholicism), wrote an essay about how this song describes the intercessory ministry of Mary.

I’ve actually thought about writing a book about my “Catholic songs!”

Does anyone else think that there is a lot of longing among Protestants for “home?” Is that why they write songs with Catholic thinking?

(BTW, I have never had a song professionally recorded by an artist, or published. Sorry. I just wrote them for my church, my friends and family, and myself. Wrote a lot of children’s songs, since then we didn’t have to worry about copyright laws.)
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I think that you are putting far too much emphasis on them being Catholic instead of merely Christian. The Trinity, Sacrements, Sacred Traditions and such are not exclusively Roman Catholic.
 
O.S.Luke said:
As far as shying away from crosses… what about the hymns “Lift High the Cross?” “When I Survey the Wondrous Cross?” “Beneath the Cross of Jesus?” “In the Cross of Christ I Glory?”

Just to name a few.
Click to expand...
My point exactly. Protestants don’t like to look at crosses but they sure like to sing about them.
 
peary said:
Those are a few out of many. Once again, the main thrust of Protestant hymns is based on ‘I’ and ‘me’; Catholic hymns and songs are more corporate with ‘we’ and ‘our’. Protestant hymns that are corporate have no problem being sung in Catholic churches. Most of the songs noted above have Catholic origins.
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I only listed a few out of many that are corporate hymns. I think you are trying to pigeonhole all Protestant traditions and communions, however. I am a Methodist - I am familiar with the praise/chorus tradition that is quite “me” based. I was also an organist at one time for Episcopal and Lutheran services. I daresay most of the hymns in those traditions are corporate hymnody. Are you talking about Baptists or Pentecostal traditions, perhaps?
 
O.S.Luke said:
I only listed a few out of many that are corporate hymns. I think you are trying to pigeonhole all Protestant traditions and communions, however. I am a Methodist - I am familiar with the praise/chorus tradition that is quite “me” based. I was also an organist at one time for Episcopal and Lutheran services. I daresay most of the hymns in those traditions are corporate hymnody. Are you talking about Baptists or Pentecostal traditions, perhaps?
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I am a music minister for a Methodist church, so I know what Methodists sing about. I was also organist for a Presbyterian church years ago. Both traditions share the same hymns, for the most part. And most were ‘me’ and ‘I’ based. The music reflects their theology.
 
Back to the original thread, it makes sense to me. This isn’t an use/them issue. The OP noted how interesting it is that many CCM congs incorporate concepts that are at odds with at least a substantial portion of evangelicaldom’s theology. Don’t make a fight that doesn’t have to be!

This is America, after all, and catholics and protestants are neighbors and interact. People with the living presence of the Holy Spirit inside them recognize it in others. That then manifests itself in emotional expressions like song lyric - even if it hasn’t penetrated the intellect yet.

And the converse is quite true as well. There are a lot of evangelical rooted songs making their way into catholic use.

And of course, there are also uniquely protestant notions that show up in lyrics. I always cringe when protestant songs speak of being ‘covered’ by the righteousness of Christ. How sad to not recognize the reality of genuine sanctification!
 
manualman said:
Back to the original thread, it makes sense to me. This isn’t an use/them issue. The OP noted how interesting it is that many CCM congs incorporate concepts that are at odds with at least a substantial portion of evangelicaldom’s theology. Don’t make a fight that doesn’t have to be!
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AMEN!!!
 
Great topic!

I really enjoy CCM (the old and the current) and I’ve always been Catholic. I guess I like it mostly b/c it sure beats the other garbage out there on the radio today (granted I liked the rock and pop of my time–the 80s, mainly) but really, if I’m going to listen to music and it’s not classical (I’m a classically-trained pianist so I love that), then it’s going to be CCM. My kids enjoy it too, so I’m very glad about that.

I feel the same way as the original poster–that underlying a lot of these current CCM songs there are some Catholic themes. One poster pointed out that they are simply Christian themes–and that is true–after all there certainly is more shared than disagreed.

That being said I recently saw a CCM group in concert and after downloading one of their songs, I couldn’t believe how Catholic the words of the refrain are: (the song is called Sea of Faces by Kutless (more rock-style group than pop):

“I am not just a man vastly lost in this world,
Lost in a sea of faces.
Your Body’s the bread, Your Blood is the wine,
because You traded Your life for mine.”

Some might say the order is reversed–they didn’t say the bread is the Body, the wine is the Blood–but I am simply impressed that they used the verb “IS” instead of “is a symbol” or “is like.” That’s pretty Catholic for a non-Catholic group.

And yes, I like to try to read “Catholic” theology into other CCM songs. Several years ago, it struck me interestingly, and very Catholic–the words in the very-well-known CCM song Open the Eyes of My Heart:

“Open the eyes of my heart Lord…I want to see You…as we sing Holy, Holy, Holy…”

–the thrice Holy, like in the Sanctus, right before the consecration–and wanting to “see” the Lord, as He’s made present on the altar–at least it fits in a Catholic mass (not that the song does!!) Maybe it’s because I was also reading Scott Hahn’s The Lamb’s Supper at the time.

There’s another one called The Glory by Avalon. The words are something along the line of “The Glory of the Blood…the beauty of the Body that was broken for our forgiveness…”–things like that strike me as quite Catholic and almost graphic in a Lenten sort of way (as someone earlier posted about the absence of crucifixes, and traditionally in Protestantism I think there is not much emphasis on the suffering of Christ like there is in Catholicism. [Non-Catholics, please feel free to correct my impression of that.]

I think what makes me a little sad is when I hear CCM songs that are definitely NOT Catholic theology…like songs about the rapture/left behind-type ideas, I definitely tend to not like those ones specifically b/c they do contradict Catholic teaching. Of course “Blessed Assurance”–but I don’t consider that CCM. Can’t think of other examples off hand, but there are a few.

On the other hand, I get annoyed by the contemporary hymns in the Catholic hymnals that are certainly “we” and “us” but that we seem to be singing about **our ****own **glory and goodness rather than God’s! And all these “community” and “social justice” songs… I’m not saying the themes aren’t good, but it seems to me that the CCM songs–while many are indeed “I” and more personal-based–are unquestionably singing TO and ABOUT God and in His praise, not as if the singer *is *God.

A lot of the CCM today are also right from the psalms (what a concept, right?)–either directly or paraphrased, whereas some of the recent stuff in the Catholic hymnals are anything *but *(again, enough songs about social justice and what we do!)

Really interesting topic, thanks for bringing it up.
 
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