Catholic to Mormon to Catholic?

[C2M2C]

[SIGN]As to the “Human decision” element, this is a good and valid concern which our Dear Lord foresaw and provided for. He told His Church that:
“Whatever” they bound on earth would be bound in heaven and Whatever the loosed on Earth would be loosed in heaven./COLOR][/SIGN]
JRKH- this is going into a different direction from what has been discussed to date, but the scripture you quoted below is often quoted in Mormon circles relating to Celestial marriage. What do Catholics believe about what Heaven will be? No marriage if I understand correctly. This is sad to me and very upsetting to my wife. My wife understands even though she’s still a few steps behind me but she’s on board. The upsetting thing for both of us is not so much that the Mormon church is not true, but the doctrine. And then coming to grips with having to learn all over again and then I assume there will forever be comparisons to what we have believed in. This particular issue is one that stands out. I haven’t read a whole lot but to compare the two “heavens” it sounds as though they are drastically different.

Thoughts?

 

[C2M2C]

[SIGN]QUOTE=Rolltide;4164402]C2M2C,
JRKH private messaged me and asked me to contribute to this thread. I might be able to help you out. In my normal life, I work as an Assistant Professor of History at a major private college in the South. If there are historical aspects of the church that you are struggling with, I may be able to help. I’m still getting caught up in the thread, and I might not be able to respond to your concerns about the Council of Nicea until the weekend, but I’ll be monitoring the discussion.[/SIGN]

Thanks, I’ll look forward to hearing from you. In the mean time I will continue to review what I have been studying and post more questions. Also, take a look a the reply to JRKH regarding Celestial marriage and the differences in “heaven”

 

[dmar198]

What I struggle with, as I mentioned in my initial post are what seem to me to be clarifications of doctrine. I am a novice at Catholic church history so forgive me if I get it wrong or sound ignorant. But for example, the Council of Nicea is a concern along with the others that followed for that matter. The council as I understand it was to resolve conflicts of teachings including the nature of God among others. My concern is who directed these men? I stated this in my first post; were the conclusions or resolutions of these councils based on the thoughts, perceptions, feelings, or ideas of the men that were there, or were these men divinely inspired? If what was decided upon was of men, then those doctrines have the potential of being wrong. If the conclusions were divinely inspired then as a Mormon we call that revelation and my understanding is that Catholics believe that revelation ended at the close of biblical times.

It is neither revelation (in the positive sense) nor merely men’s thoughts: it is men’s thoughts protected from error by the Holy Spirit. He did not guide them to the Truth in such a way that they said everything there is to be said about God’s nature; but what they said was not erroneous. That’s why there can be later developments, yet there is no revelation–for you are correct in saying that the Church teaches how God stopped telling us new stuff at the end of biblical times.

how do we know that doctrines develop? Are there scriptural references? The mustard seed parable is used often in Mormonism but not for the same reason you mention. This is of another concern to me as expressed in my comments above to JRKH. Who decides how the doctrine develops?

Was my above answer satisfactory to this question, too?

When you mention that there is “private revelation” do mean it in the way that Mormons teach it? Which is that if you pray with a sincere heart believing that the Lord will answer you , you will get answers.

No. “Private revelation” is the Lord coming directly or indirectly (i.e. through His saints) to a particular person to tell them unequivocally something that they did not know previously. These are inherently unverifiable, so the Church teaches that they are not to be given the assent of faith–only taken as something that may or may not be true.
God bless!

 

[Douglas_Naaden]

What do Catholics believe about what Heaven will be? No marriage if I understand correctly. This is sad to me and very upsetting to my wife. My wife understands even though she’s still a few steps behind me but she’s on board. The upsetting thing for both of us is not so much that the Mormon church is not true, but the doctrine.

Marriage is ultimately a symbol of Christ’s uniting Himself with His Church. It is important to note that there is a unity of the Church that is a strong reality. I think it’s pretty much a logical necessity that our relationship with each and every other member of the Church in Heaven will transcend and give a joy completely beyond the sum total of all the joys of all our friends and wife while we were her on earth. We are joined together in God and through God to each other.

Should spouses be in Heaven together, there is no reason not to believe that they will share a unique bond of love. However, this bond would not be a sexual one, but would transcend it, hence there is no marriage in Heaven. However, there really isn’t anything much in revelation about how exactly we relate to each other in Heaven, so you really can’t pin down exactly how it works having our spouse or child, etc. in Heaven.

 

[Rolltide]

Marriage is ultimately a symbol of Christ’s uniting Himself with His Church. It is important to note that there is a unity of the Church that is a strong reality. I think it’s pretty much a logical necessity that our relationship with each and every other member of the Church in Heaven will transcend and give a joy completely beyond the sum total of all the joys of all our friends and wife while we were her on earth. We are joined together in God and through God to each other.

Should spouses be in Heaven together, there is no reason not to believe that they will share a unique bond of love. However, this bond would not be a sexual one, but would transcend it, hence there is no marriage in Heaven. However, there really isn’t anything much in revelation about how exactly we relate to each other in Heaven, so you really can’t pin down exactly how it works having our spouse or child, etc. in Heaven.

Precisely. Although we will still know our spouses, family members, and relatives in heaven and have a special bond, there will be no more need for marriage because we will experience perfect love in heaven. We will finally be capable of loving everyone equally, to the fullest possible extent. No one person will be any less special to us. We will experience the kind of perfect love that God has for everyone. In other words, marriage would be meaningless, because it will be replaced by something even MORE full than we can now comprehend. This gives me great solace, as my relationship with my wife and family will not end, but will become even more close.

 

[RebeccaJ]

[sign]As to the “Human decision” element, this is a good and valid concern which our Dear Lord foresaw and provided for. He told His Church that:
“Whatever” they bound on earth would be bound in heaven and Whatever the loosed on Earth would be loosed in heaven./COLOR][/sign]
JRKH- this is going into a different direction from what has been discussed to date, but the scripture you quoted below is often quoted in Mormon circles relating to Celestial marriage. What do Catholics believe about what Heaven will be? No marriage if I understand correctly. This is sad to me and very upsetting to my wife. My wife understands even though she’s still a few steps behind me but she’s on board. The upsetting thing for both of us is not so much that the Mormon church is not true, but the doctrine. And then coming to grips with having to learn all over again and then I assume there will forever be comparisons to what we have believed in. This particular issue is one that stands out. I haven’t read a whole lot but to compare the two “heavens” it sounds as though they are drastically different.

Thoughts?

C2M2C,

re heaven: It is simple. There is one Heaven, and God wants all to be there. He Loves you, and your wife, enough that He died, so that we may live. By the Grace of God, you will be with your wife, and all you love, and everyone else. In unity, one with the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

By our baptism we are made whole, and thus begin our journey, where we follow Christ. He is the Way. You can talk to Him.

I recommend, if you haven’t already discovered them, these links. I used them A LOT, and still refer to them often.

Encyclopedia of Catholicism - There is a good entry on “HEAVEN” there. Keep in mind it is an old encyclopedia, and some information is out of date (not doctrinally out of date).

Christian Classics Ethereal Library - Early Church Fathers and Thomas Aquinas among other writings can be found there.

New American Bible - This bible is a teaching bible, with extremely helpful footnotes!

Catechism of the Catholic Church - (again…footnotes)

Project Gutenberg - more books…I found it useful for finding sited references. googlebooks works well for this as well.

And, knowing how to use more “advanced” features of google. One that saves a lot of time in searching a particular site only. So, if you wanted to search the writings found at the Vatican website, on heaven, type in the google search engine::

heaven site:vatican.va

or

“beatific vision” site:vatican.va

If you only want to search the Catechism, add the word catechism to the search string.

I use a site search more often than any search, it narrows down what google returns to what you find as relative.

You and your wife are in my prayers.

ps: the Catholic Church teachings on marriage are beautiful…I hope you check them out.

 

[JRKH]

[SIGN]As to the “Human decision” element, this is a good and valid concern which our Dear Lord foresaw and provided for. He told His Church that:
“Whatever” they bound on earth would be bound in heaven and Whatever the loosed on Earth would be loosed in heaven./COLOR][/SIGN]
JRKH- this is going into a different direction from what has been discussed to date, but the scripture you quoted below is often quoted in Mormon circles relating to Celestial marriage.
What did Jesus say in this quote. Did He say Marriage? No He did not. He said “Whatever”. That is much broader than just marriage. Just think about it.

What do Catholics believe about what Heaven will be? No marriage if I understand correctly. This is sad to me and very upsetting to my wife. My wife understands even though she’s still a few steps behind me but she’s on board.

 

[C2M2C]

Encyclopedia of Catholicism - There is a good entry on “HEAVEN” there. Keep in mind it is an old encyclopedia, and some information is out of date (not doctrinally out of date).

[SIGN]The next quality is “brightness”, or “glory”, by which the bodies of the saints shall shine like the sun. “It is sown in dishonour,” says the Apostle, “it shall rise in glory” (1 Corinthians 15:43; cf. Matthew 13:43; 17:2; Philippians 3:21). All the bodies of the saints shall be equally impassible, but they shall be endowed with different degrees of glory. According to St. Paul: “One is the glory of the sun, another the glory of the moon, another the glory of the stars. For star differeth from star in glory”’(1 Corinthians 15:41-42). [/SIGN]

This is the scripture that Mormons use to justify Celestial, Telestial, & Terrestrial kingdoms.

What’s the Catholic take?

I have been looking at the Catholic Encyclopedia. It’s been helpful.

Thanks

 

[C2M2C]

What did Jesus say in this quote. Did He say Marriage? No He did not. He said "Whatever"

. That is much broader than just marriage. Just think about it.

Understood about it being broader, but what are examples of “Whatever”?

In heaven we will ALL live united in God. We will not marry because there is no need for marriage. No need to procreate etc. We will live in the pure Love of our Heavenly Father, “As Angels” Praising and serving God in Joy. This shouldn’t be upsetting since, so long as both you and your wife arrive in heaven, you will both be united together along with all the other saints and angels in God’s Love.

 

[JRKH]

Originally Posted by JRKH
What did Jesus say in this quote. Did He say Marriage? No He did not. He said “Whatever”. That is much broader than just marriage. Just think about it.

Understood about it being broader, but what are examples of “Whatever”?
My heavens, how to answer that question. Any Church Doctrine and teaching is an example. Teachings on the use of Artificial Contraception. Thus is it bound on earth and thus it is bound in heaven.
Another example that would come straight from the Bible would be the council of Jerusalem where it was determined that Most of the Mosaic Law did not need to be applied to Gentile converts to Christianity. Thus was it bound on Earth and thus it is bound in heaven.

Considering I have been believing it for 18 years and have been trying to do what I have to do to make it happen, trying to undertsand something other than that is a little difficult.

“We will live in the pure Love of our Heavenly Father, “As Angels” Praising and serving God in Joy.”

This is just a concept that is unfamiliar compared to eternal marriage, so it’s just a matter of coming to an understanding of what exactly that means and why it’s different.

Thanks

Surely, but have faith in the words of our Dear Lord, and do not grieve for this Change in thinking. When we are all translated into His glory we shall all see each other in a different light. The light of pure Love.

Peace
James

 

[C2M2C]

“Stategery”- that’s pretty funny, a tribute or a jab?

Absolutely. It helps to talk (or cyber-talk) things through with people, but the best place for an answer is always a dialogue with God, through prayer and the scriptures.

Specifically, ask God to reveal himself to you. Seek him out. Be persistent with this and see what happens.

It has helped, and sometimes it’s nice to ask here instead of trying to dig for it. It’s also nice to hear about other’s thoughts and opinions. Prayer is what I struggle with right now. Or more of trusting what i feel in response to those prayers. If you read my initial post you’ll see that I’ve prayed before and look where that got me .

An interesting note though. As Mormons we are encouraged to read the BoM on a daily basis and a few years ago I was in a church meeting where it was declared that if you read one chapter every day you would recieve miracles. Well I’m always in need of a miracle every now and then so I tried it and have read a chapter a day in either the BoM. Old Testament, or New Testament (even though it was intended for the BoM) for over two years. I jumped around a lot and then at the beginning of this year I decided to read the BoM all the way through from start to finish since I have never read from start to finish. I completed the BoM about six weeks ago and then moved to the New Testament. I have continued to read from page one and one of the first things that I realized after staring the NT was how clear my understanding is of what I am reading and how little I got of of the BoM. I got a clearer understanding of some of the stories, but not much else. In fact I really didn’t feel much of anything. Interestingly enough that was about the time I stumbled across some of the Mormon chuch history that led me to reconsider the road I’ve been on and eventually here.

Maybe I needed to leave the Catholic church, gain 18 more years of experience and then come back? What I do know is that I wouldn’t change the experience. It got me to my wife whom I adore and then 4 kids. There are a lot of Mormon traditions that I will still follow no matter where end up. My wife and I don’t watch rated R movies (which keeps my mind out of the gutter ), we pray “often” together as a family, and individually, we have “Family Home Evening” every Sunday (even though it’s supposed to be Monday) where we talk about “church & family stuff” and a whole host of other things that aren’t necessarily doctrine but just good common sense things and good ideas that keeps my family (or any family for that matter) tight knit and close to God…

 

[po18guy]

An interesting note though. As Mormons we are encouraged to read the BoM on a daily basis and a few years ago I was in a church meeting where it was declared that if you read one chapter every day you would recieve miracles. Well I’m always in need of a miracle every now and then so I tried it and have read a chapter a day in either the BoM. Old Testament, or New Testament (even though it was intended for the BoM) for over two years. I jumped around a lot and then at the beginning of this year I decided to read the BoM all the way through from start to finish since I have never read from start to finish. I completed the BoM about six weeks ago and then moved to the New Testament. I have continued to read from page one and one of the first things that I realized after staring the NT was how clear my understanding is of what I am reading and how little I got of of the BoM. I got a clearer understanding of some of the stories, but not much else. In fact I really didn’t feel much of anything. Interestingly enough that was about the time I stumbled across some of the Mormon chuch history that led me to reconsider the road I’ve been on and eventually here.

Maybe I needed to leave the Catholic church, gain 18 more years of experience and then come back? What I do know is that I wouldn’t change the experience. It got me to my wife whom I adore and then 4 kids. There are a lot of Mormon traditions that I will still follow no matter where end up. My wife and I don’t watch rated R movies (which keeps my mind out of the gutter ), we pray “often” together as a family, and individually, we have “Family Home Evening” every Sunday (even though it’s supposed to be Monday) where we talk about “church & family stuff” and a whole host of other things that aren’t necessarily doctrine but just good common sense things and good ideas that keeps my family (or any family for that matter) tight knit and close to God…

The miracle is that you were lead to consider the faith of your youth, the only Church which can trace its lineage directly back to Christ. The miracle is that you are seeking the truth. The miracle is that the Lord has put many loving, faithful souls on this forum to use in His quest for you to return to Him.

I have heard from certain candid Mormons that, if they ever concluded that the LDS faith was not true, that Catholicism was the only other option. That must be true, because many here who have been speaking with you took that exact path.

At all costs, keep seeking the truth.

Christ’s peace.

 

[jean8]

To be brief I was raised Catholic and when I was 18 living in Utah I was given a Book of Mormon. I was told to read it and pray about it as stated in John 1:5 and Moroni 10:4. I did, felt the “burning in the bosom” and now 18 years later I have been a Mormon ever since, married in the Temple, heavily involved in the youth program of my ward, four kids, the oldest of which I just baptized last month, and deeply entrenched in Utah Mormon culture, etc, etc, etc. If you live in Utah and are a Mormon or were, you know what I mean.

The problem began about a month ago when searching for something on Google I came across some Mormon church history. I studied, learned and became a little “too familiar” with the Church’s past. Needless to say, a reasonable person could no longer continue as a Mormon knowing the truth.

So here I am, wondering where do I go from here. A study of the doctrine of the Catholic church or any other church for that matter is secondary to me in a way because the primary concern is finding the true church, Christ’s church. Then the doctrine will matter. In other words, if the Mormons are right then their idea of Heaven is right, same with Catholics. I have a good “general” sense of Catholic teachings but if the church is not the true one, then the doctrine is irrelevant.

So how do I know? How do I find out? I understand Apostolic succession and to a certain extent I think I believe it. The history makes sense and adds up but my problem is that as a Mormon I was told to “study it out” come up with what I felt to be the right answer and then ask God for a confirmation. So what do Catholics do?
How do you pray for an understanding of these things? How do you get answers? Do you get answers? How do they come? Feelings, promptings, thoughts, signs?

As a Mormon I felt like I had answers to almost everything and if I didn’t i need do nothing more than pray about it. I now no longer trust what I feel.

To a certain extent, scriptural backing is almost irrelevant too. Why? Because almost everyone can find or quote scriptures that back or “prove” their belief. Catholics can and so can Mormons and Born Agains.

I am distraught, sad, mad, confused and I need help. Prayers, thoughts, suggestions? Any or all would be helpful.

Regards

C2M2C?

I would highly recommend you pray to God the Father, and ask in the name of Jesus Christ, the Fathers Son. Then read the Bible.
When anyone comes knocking on your door with another gospel written by a creature, in this case ‘Joseph Smith’ it is a warning sign.
However, the Lord has watched over you and called you to his saving grace. See Eph.2:8-9, Rom5:2-5,8
We all make mistakes.

God bless,
jean8

 

[RebeccaJ]

Encyclopedia of Catholicism - There is a good entry on “HEAVEN” there. Keep in mind it is an old encyclopedia, and some information is out of date (not doctrinally out of date).

[sign]The next quality is “brightness”, or “glory”, by which the bodies of the saints shall shine like the sun. “It is sown in dishonour,” says the Apostle, “it shall rise in glory” (1 Corinthians 15:43; cf. Matthew 13:43; 17:2; Philippians 3:21). All the bodies of the saints shall be equally impassible, but they shall be endowed with different degrees of glory. According to St. Paul: “One is the glory of the sun, another the glory of the moon, another the glory of the stars. For star differeth from star in glory”’(1 Corinthians 15:41-42). [/sign]

This is the scripture that Mormons use to justify Celestial, Telestial, & Terrestrial kingdoms.

What’s the Catholic take?

I have been looking at the Catholic Encyclopedia. It’s been helpful.

Thanks

C2M2C, I read your other post as well, (that I’ll reply to), but one thing you say in there that you can tie back to here.

Mormonism uses the Bible to teach, with a verse pulled from here, and there, and it takes the meaning of what is being said out of context.

Clarity is found when you put the invidual verse into context.

If you take that particular quote, and read it entirely in its context, you will see that we’re talking about: ‘“How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come back?”’

To answer this question, we first look to the fact that God created different kinds of flesh:human, animal, fowl, fish. A description of the diversity of living bodies.

Then, we look to the heavens, where again we see a description of heavenly bodies: earth, sun, moon and stars. A description of the diversity of heavenly bodies.

And so it will be with the resurrection of the dead. There will be a diversity, just as our bodies have diversity now. And so the answer to the question, where all this began: “With what kind of body will they come back?” Is, incorruptible and immortal, bearing the image of God. And an acceptance that God creates using diversity.

It is not a description of three levels of heaven. To stretch that verse to that interpretation requires ignoring the context of where it sits.

Also, the KJV bible is written in early modern english…so, the words and phrases being used are from Shakespeare’s time. Nothing wrong with that, but, I find it easier to read a Bible that is written in modern English. Words that were in common usage in Shakespeare’s time, we just don’t use. Terrestial and celestial are two such words. Today, we say earthly and heavenly.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Prayer is what I struggle with right now. Or more of trusting what i feel in response to those prayers. If you read my initial post you’ll see that I’ve prayed before and look where that got me .

C2M2C, don’t stop praying. Even as an atheist, I prayed. It felt beyond awkward and ridiculous, but prayer is Needed. Needed, with a capital ‘N’.

Prayer is not what got you to where you are. Relying on feelings and how the Mormon church interpreted those feelings for you, is how you got to where you are.

Keep reading the Bible, especially the Gospels. My favorite is John.

Maybe I needed to leave the Catholic church, gain 18 more years of experience and then come back?

Ask God to guide you. And don’t rely on feelings. Miracles happen. Here you have an atheist who found Faith. It was not possible without God. It is a profound miracle to me. I am like you, my Mormon experience has made me distrustful of my own feelings. Your 18 years in Mormonism has trained you to go jonesing after feelings. Exhausting, is what I think of that. But maybe that’s just me.

What I do know is that I wouldn’t change the experience. It got me to my wife whom I adore and then 4 kids.

Of course. God is with us, Loves us, no matter where we are or the paths we have taken. He is there.

There are a lot of Mormon traditions that I will still follow no matter where end up. My wife and I don’t watch rated R movies (which keeps my mind out of the gutter ), we pray “often” together as a family, and individually, we have “Family Home Evening” every Sunday (even though it’s supposed to be Monday) where we talk about “church & family stuff” and a whole host of other things that aren’t necessarily doctrine but just good common sense things and good ideas that keeps my family (or any family for that matter) tight knit and close to God…

The Catholic church does not require people to give up their culture or traditions. They become a part of Her, in the sense that, everything that is good is of God. Everything you describe there fits very well into a Catholic life. Which, is being a disciple of Christ.

 

[mfbukowski]

To be brief I was raised Catholic and when I was 18 living in Utah I was given a Book of Mormon. I was told to read it and pray about it as stated in John 1:5 and Moroni 10:4. I did, felt the “burning in the bosom” and now 18 years later I have been a Mormon ever since, married in the Temple, heavily involved in the youth program of my ward, four kids, the oldest of which I just baptized last month, and deeply entrenched in Utah Mormon culture, etc, etc, etc. If you live in Utah and are a Mormon or were, you know what I mean.

The problem began about a month ago when searching for something on Google I came across some Mormon church history. I studied, learned and became a little “too familiar” with the Church’s past. Needless to say, a reasonable person could no longer continue as a Mormon knowing the truth.

So here I am, wondering where do I go from here. A study of the doctrine of the Catholic church or any other church for that matter is secondary to me in a way because the primary concern is finding the true church, Christ’s church. Then the doctrine will matter. In other words, if the Mormons are right then their idea of Heaven is right, same with Catholics. I have a good “general” sense of Catholic teachings but if the church is not the true one, then the doctrine is irrelevant.

So how do I know? How do I find out? I understand Apostolic succession and to a certain extent I think I believe it. The history makes sense and adds up but my problem is that as a Mormon I was told to “study it out” come up with what I felt to be the right answer and then ask God for a confirmation. So what do Catholics do?
How do you pray for an understanding of these things? How do you get answers? Do you get answers? How do they come? Feelings, promptings, thoughts, signs?

As a Mormon I felt like I had answers to almost everything and if I didn’t i need do nothing more than pray about it. I now no longer trust what I feel.

To a certain extent, scriptural backing is almost irrelevant too. Why? Because almost everyone can find or quote scriptures that back or “prove” their belief. Catholics can and so can Mormons and Born Agains.

I am distraught, sad, mad, confused and I need help. Prayers, thoughts, suggestions? Any or all would be helpful.

Regards

C2M2C?

One of the things I have noticed repeatedly on this thread is that Catholics do not understand testimony, and seem to be overly obsessed with the notion that their church is true due to history.

I have often said to them that they believe their church is “true because it is old”. Yet there are so many doctrines missing from their church that we know are true, and have evidence of being true, due also to very early history and the survival of the doctrine in other places, like Orthodoxy.

Let me give you an example. This is an annointing ritual found in the Coptic Orthodox church:
copticchurch.net/topics/thecopticchurch/sacraments/2_confirmation.html

Scroll down to find the section called “The Annointments”

Of course they are apostate and have been changed, but there is no way Joseph could possibly have know about these proceedures.

Anyway, this is one example of what I have found as solid evidence for the apostasy of the catholic church and the truth of the LDS church. One of many! I don’t talk much about it here for obvious reasons.

I would be interested in what aspect of Mormon history specifically you find problems. Maybe you can enlighten me on my journey.

I understand what you mean about Utah culture and though I don’t know your background, I can tell you that the church culture is quite different here in the “mission field.”

 

[mfbukowski]

Prayer is not what got you to where you are. Relying on feelings and how the Mormon church interpreted those feelings for you, is how you got to where you are.

Ask God to guide you. And don’t rely on feelings.

See now this makes no sense to me. How does God guide you if not by feelings?

 

[po18guy]

Anyway, this is one example of what I have found as solid evidence for the apostasy of the catholic church and the truth of the LDS church. One of many! I don’t talk much about it here for obvious reasons.

Catholics have been asking for the tiniest scintilla of evidence of date, time, place, and names involved in the Joseph Smith pronounced “great apostasy”. If it is the truth, and we all seek the truth, we must know of this!

Christ’s peace.

 

[po18guy]

See now this makes no sense to me. How does God guide you if not by feelings?

He informs your heart, soul, mind and body by His “Word of Knowledge”. This goes beyond “feelings”, and is achieved during prayer of any type, but mostly intercessory prayer. It is the work of the Holy Spirit in illumining your very being that what you have petitioned for will be granted. Or, the person for whom you are praying is healed. I have experienced this only during intercessory prayer before Christ in the Blessed Sacrament. This would be extremely difficult for a non-Catholic to understand, since most reject Christ in the Eucharist, and some may not particularly believe in such intercessory prayer. It happens - not every time, but His Word of Knowledge has never been wrong about an outcome of prayer.

This is why prayer, speaking with and listening to the Lord, is the most important conversation of our lives.

Here is how God, in the person of the Holy Spirit, speaks to mankind - through the Gifts of the Holy Spirit:

The seven gifts, as given in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, along with a description of each gift, as defined by St. Thomas Aquinas in the Summa Theologica:

Wisdom - The gift of wisdom perfects a person’s speculative reason in matters of judgment about the truth, Aquinas writes.

Knowledge - The gift of knowledge perfects a person’s practical reason in matters of judgment about the truth, Aquinas writes

Counsel - " The gift of counsel perfects a person’s practical reason in the apprehension of truth and allows the person to respond prudently, “moved through the research of reason,” Aquinas writes.

Fortitude -The gift of Courage allows people the “firmness of mind [that] is required both in doing good and in enduring evil, especially with regard to goods or evils that are difficult,” Aquinas writes.

Understanding - Also called “Common Sense.” The gift of understanding perfects a person’s speculative reason in the apprehension of truth. It is the gift “whereby self-evident principles are known,” Aquinas writes.

Piety-." Piety is the gift “whereby, at the Holy Spirit’s instigation, we pay worship and duty to God as our Father,” Aquinas writes.

Fear of the Lord-This gift is described by Aquinas as a fear of separating oneself from God. He describes the gift as a “filial fear,” like a child’s fear of offending his father, rather than a “servile fear,” that is, a fear of punishment. Also known as knowing God is all powerful.

Christ’s peace.

 

[RebeccaJ]

See now this makes no sense to me. How does God guide you if not by feelings?

mfbukowski, though I would like to think your question is serious…my experience with you is that everything that you ask or say is a mocking of beliefs, waiting to happen. I’m not falling for it again.