I don’t understand the tear. I attend both the EF and OF. I might be disposed differently but I feel the two Masses complement each other.Thanks for the MP3, Lamentabili, very interesting!
D’you think after 2 months attending TLM, I would no longer attend the NO?
I feel torn between both masses, because the Pope agrees with both, and I wouldn’t give up one for the other.
Nobody says you have to…except some posters in the traditional sections of the forum. If the Church officially accepts it, what is the problem?Thanks for the MP3, Lamentabili, very interesting!
D’you think after 2 months attending TLM, I would no longer attend the NO?
I feel torn between both masses, because the Pope agrees with both, and I wouldn’t give up one for the other.
Worded that way, it is clear that this is advice. A personal opinion. As long as a priest offers such an opinion as an opinion and separates it from Church teaching, that is understandable. Then the listener can take it or leave it.
What happens when the faithful DEMAND, and the Bishops IGNORE? And what happens when the faithful then write to Rome only to have thier letter delivered back to their Bishop who does nothing? That has been the common pattern for the past 4 decades.
I’m curious what you mean by ad-libbing the words of consecration. What did he say?
Oh, he just would go into this incredibly silly William Shatner-style thing.
Catholics do not believe that suffering need result in a loss of faith. When we understand it suffering, it can sanctify us, or embitter us. The choice is ours.
Suffering doesn’t necessarily lead to the loss of faith. In fact, it is a great means of sanctification if it is handled properly. But willingly attending Mass where a Priest violates the rubrics and gives heretical or semi-heretical sermons,* is placing oneself in an occaision of sins*. The suffering I was referring to was that of effect - namely, losing the faith,or losing the sense of the faith. Don’t forget lex oranid lex credendi. This is not just a saying that Traditionalists made up. It is serious. They way a person prays will determine the way they believe. Watered down prayers produce a watered down faith; irreverence produced irreverence; heretical sermons enter the mind like a poision and unless a person is solid in their faith, they will do very serious harm; when the Sacrificial nature of the mass is downplayed, the person will have a distorted understanding of what the Mass is
That is pretty serious. The mass was almost certainly invalid, which means transubstantiation did not take place, and the bread remained bread. Those who received communion received only bread, and nothing more. If the Priest tampers with the words of consecration he not only commits a public mortal sin, but it will almost always result in an invalid Mass. Not just illicit (illegal), but invalid, which means it was not a mass at all. It is truly incredible what takes place at Novus Ordo Masses. Congradulations on finding the FSSP!
Yes, when I mentioned this to the kind folks down in Liturgy and Sacraments they confirmed that for me. It made me very sad.
We’re very blessed to have them so close by, for sure.
I do not know these blind of who you speak or of the poor catechesis. However, it is good to know that we have the teaching of the Church in the form of the Catechism available freely to all. I think that will serve to anchor the future of the Church and keep in check, at least eventually, those who teach their own catholicism.
I have seen the FSSP speak in similar terms too, especially in things which imply that the EF is superior to the OF.
It is available everywhere. That was my point. Even if one has a teacher that is all over the map on what the Church teaching, the fact that a norm exists and is easily available to all will serve as an anchor.
Thanks for your message.Bebe,
There’s only one way to find out. Take the challenge!
As for the OF, I don’t think you have to worry about hurting the Pope’s feelings by not going. The Pope has criticized it in the past even going so far as to call it a “banal on the spot product” as a Cardinal. And he was talking about the Latin promulgated version. The NO is a valid form of Mass, however rarely can one find a Mass of Paul VI done in the manner which VCII forsaw (Latin, Gregorian Chant, ad orientam, etc.). Most NO Masses on the ground level are ICEL Masses which include a very poor translation and add in elements nowhere called for by VCII (EM’s, folk/ rock music, holding hands, altar girls, priest facing people, communion in the hand) plus who knows what other innovations.
The great thing about the TLM is that it has stood the test of time, produced countless Saints, and you know what to expect every time. You can’t go wrong.
I didn’t know the Pope had said such thing. I know not why many people in the OF never talk about the Pope. It is a taboo subject.I can’t believe it… I used to go to an OF Mass where the priest’s habit was to change orations and so on…
He didn’t want dreariness in his church, but I always switched off during his sermons because he repeated himself. What about if the priest says *“his friends” *instead of *“his disciples”? *I heard it quite often.
Exactly. None of these practices are called for in Vatican II.
Communion in the hand is currently permitted/ tolerated, however the standard means of reception in the Latin Rite remains on the tongue.
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The CCC is available but that is not what the kids are being taught. I help teach high school kids at my parish in preparation of their being Confirmed. Many of them, like my sons, have been in Catholic schools since they were kids. They are not being taught the norm, pnewton.
