Catholic View of fascism

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That’s because the realistic alternative in Spain at that time was a Communist regime.
 
Well, not for ultranationalism. Communism is an internationalist ideology.
 
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That may be the theory but have you ever talked to a Chinese Communist?
 
LeonardDeNoblac said:
That’s because the realistic alternative in Spain at that time was a Communist regime.
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That depends on what stage of the process (including the pre-Civil War era) you’re looking at. Certainly any alternative would have meant the diminution of Church power and wealth in Spain.
 
Not really. Communist regimes are not ultranationalist, they are internationalist. They are not content with limiting themselves to one nation of people, but would like to import their revolution to other countries. This is based on the concept of the bond of brotherhood and solidarity between all members of the working class, which Communism believes is stronger than the bond of nationalism and patriotism to one’s own group.

This is extremistic, because it’s the far-left, but generally left-wing ideologies don’t tend to be ultranationalist and excluding of other people. Rather, they believe in some sort of solidarity between humans. This is why moderate left-ideologies are usually pro-immigration or pro-refugee, whereas some right-wing ideologies sow panic at the first sign of an immigration wave and trick the gullible into thinking that there is some conspiracy against the majority national group.

You are right that totalitarianism and scapegoating are also features of Communism, however, Communism does not officially designate an opposing “Other” group to whom all evils are attributed, such as Nazism and it’s view of the Jews.
 
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JerryZ said:
The actual name of the party was “Movimento Sociale Italiano”.
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No, Mussolini’s party was called the National Fascist Party (Partito Nazionale Fascista).

Mussolini himself did begin in politics inside Italy’s socialist (and not communist) party (Partito Socialista Italiano), but became disenchanted with it after WWI. (I know the distinction between socialist and communist is not an obvious one on your side of the Atlantic, but it is essential if you want to understand European history and politics.)

Mussolini’s fascist party was anything but leftist.

Even though methods used to achieve their goals are often similar, far left is characterized by the desire for revolution and the end of private property, a contestation of the established order, and class warfare. Far right is characterized by ultra-nationalism, xenophobia, the preservation of the established order (often by military means) and a deep-seated defiance for democracy.

Mussolini’s party checked all the far-right markers, including defiance of the democratic system (Italy was made into a dictature when Mussolini took power and the NFP became the only authorized party, with provisions to assign at home political opposants and summary executions of people suspected of being anti-fascist), military order, the state controlling the ideological life of the people joined to a seemingly liberal but in fact controlled economical politics, censorship, antisemitism and racism, colonial expansion.

Of course, humanity being what it is, methods of implementing dictatorship and silencing dissent are similar, whether totalitarianism is a far-left or a far-right one. But the aims are different, and even opposed.

As far as Catholicism goes, one of the pen names Mussolini chose when he wrote in socialist journals was “Vero Eretico” – “True Heretic”. So much for Catholic.
 
Salibi said:
Communism does not officially designate an opposing “Other” group to whom all evils are attributed, such as Nazism and it’s view of the Jews.
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It does. They’re the bourgeois, the capitalists, the imperialists and any counterrevolutionary. Ah, also, religion (every religion) is “the opium of the people” according to orthodox Marxists.
 
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To those arguing whether fascism is left or right wing… maybe politics is more complicated than a one dimensional line? 🤔
 
Wesrock said:
maybe politics is more complicated than a one dimensional line?
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The only complication is the desperate desire of some on the Right to pretend that history can be reshaped in such a way as to be always able to blame somebody else.
 
Kaninchen said:
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Wesrock:
maybe politics is more complicated than a one dimensional line?
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The only complication is the desperate desire of some on the Right to pretend that history can be reshaped in such a way as to be always able to blame somebody else.
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As someone who would like the USA to have a stronger welfare state, economic policy and statist policy don’t always go hand in hand, nor do they need be measured on the same political axis. National Socialists/fascists are hardly economic neo-liberals (free market). They preached an hierarchical society, but a collectivist one, too.
 
Wesrock said:
National Socialists/fascists are hardly economic neo-liberals (free market).
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They certainly didn’t believe in state ownership of the means of production, distribution and exchange which, to a European, defines ‘socialism’.

Incidentally, the NSDAP wanted to ‘return’ to a world of peasant smallholder/artisan production in the “Tausendjähriges Reich.”
 
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Kaninchen said:
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Wesrock:
National Socialists/fascists are hardly economic neo-liberals (free market).
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They certainly didn’t believe in state ownership of the means of production, distribution and exchange which, to a European, defines ‘socialism’.

Incidentally, the NSDAP wanted to ‘return’ to a world of peasant smallholder/artisan production in the “Tausendjähriges Reich.”
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Very old world conservative. In the USA what is conservative has a different meaning. On a scale with an absolutely free and unregulated market on the right and collectively owned property on the left, the Nazi’s typically fall to the left of where the USA and many European countries fall.

But, like I said, this isn’t to defend them or the “free market” right. I am only saying politics is more complicated than a one dimensional line.
 
I just think buzz words where people shout “far left” and “far right” are dumb. Politics, especially global politics, is more complicated than that. Nazis are bad. Fascism is bad. An unregulated free market is bad.
 
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Wesrock said:
In the USA what is conservative has a different meaning.
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On a scale with what actually happened and what people at the time thought on the one hand and what is convenient to political propaganda within the USA today on the other hand, all that is revealed is that American Conservatives fall into the category of supporters of reactionary plutocracy. 😆
“When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.” “The question is,” said Alice, “whether you can make words mean so many different things.” “The question is,” said Humpty Dumpty, “which is to be master – – that’s all.”
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LeonardDeNoblac said:
That’s because the realistic alternative in Spain at that time was a Communist regime.
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Read Antony Beevor’s book The Battle for Spain, particularly the chapters on the Red and White Terrors. The Whites killed way more.
 
Under Communism the government takes ownership of your factory. Under fascism an intermediate step you retain ownership, and some profits, but the government largely controls it. The opposite of Communism is laissez faire capitalism, where the government has nothing to do with your factory.

Communism tries to close the churches. Fascism tries to dominate churches. The opposite of Communism would be to let religion and churches alone.

Both Communism and fascism depower local and regional government, put all power at national level. The opposite would keep most power at local level, or Better, at local private level.
 
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