Catholic view of Islam

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Apolonio:
My view on this:

apolonio.blogspot.com
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Brilliant. I too think that Mary is the key, since they respect her so much. 👍
 
_Christopher_:
Brilliant. I too think that Mary is the key, since they respect her so much. 👍
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Just a thought Chris, how can you respect Mary yet deny Christ? To deny Christ is to disrespect Mary and her mission, dont you think?

Just a thought.
 
I dont think you could condem a moslem child to hell (limbo if they lead an honerable life), but they surley can not enter the gates of heaven because they do not accept the Lord as their savior.

But the Church should be working to convert this people, because the main stream of it is looking to destroy us.
 
Morph: Just a thought Chris, how can you respect Mary yet deny Christ? To deny Christ is to disrespect Mary and her mission, dont you think?

Response:
I don’t want to answer for Chris, but my answer to that would be that to honor Mary does not mean you have to deny Christ. In fact, if a Marian approach is taken, then she will lead us to her Son. A Marian approach to Islam is a road to the Cross, which Muslims deny.
 
Heres the thing. Muslims are damned by their own religion, their religion teaches about Christ, about Christianity and about the Gospels, these are all denied in one form or another, so its impossible for a Muslim to go to heaven, unless he totally ignores Al Qur’aan and Al Hadeeth, which he cant since being Muslims means knowing these things inside out almost. As for a child, the average mini. for learning the Quran is as early as possible but mostly around 5-6yrs old.

So the 3 requires for default salvation as stated in the 1994 CCC is:

Do not know Christ > They know about Him
Do not know the Church > Christ leads to the Church, Christianity.
Do not know the Gospels > The Gospels are mentioned a lot, also under other names, Scriptures etc.

All three are broken, knowingly, willingly.
 
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MorphRC:
Heres the thing. Muslims are damned by their own religion, their religion teaches about Christ, about Christianity and about the Gospels, these are all denied in one form or another, so its impossible for a Muslim to go to heaven, unless he totally ignores Al Qur’aan and Al Hadeeth, which he cant since being Muslims means knowing these things inside out almost. As for a child, the average mini. for learning the Quran is as early as possible but mostly around 5-6yrs old.

So the 3 requires for default salvation as stated in the 1994 CCC is:

Do not know Christ > They know about Him
Do not know the Church > Christ leads to the Church, Christianity.
Do not know the Gospels > The Gospels are mentioned a lot, also under other names, Scriptures etc.

All three are broken, knowingly, willingly.
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Because they are brainwashed from the cradle to believe those things. Do you believe God would condemn someone to Hell for unknowingly denying Him?

To make a blanket statement that all Muslims are hellbound is ridiculous and un-Catholic, to put it bluntly. The Church does not teach this either.
 
_Christopher_:
Because they are brainwashed from the cradle to believe those things. Do you believe God would condemn someone to Hell for unknowingly denying Him?

To make a blanket statement that all Muslims are hellbound is ridiculous and un-Catholic, to put it bluntly. The Church does not teach this either.
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Brainwashed? Oh Please, there as brainwashed as much as we are if you put it that way. We go to Mass and learn, they go to Mosque and learn. We should pray 3 times a day [Didache], they pray 5 times a day, they read the Quran for certain hours, the Church encourages the same with the Bible. They aint brainwashed, if they are then we are to, then also Jews are with the daily Torah study of 2hrs or more, plus Temple services, not to mention Buddhist Monks, who pray for almost 10 hours a day!

Also I never stated it was what the Church said Chris. I simply went by what the CCC said, which also condones and hopes people who write about the faith, keep their thoughts in communion with the CCC. I gave the CCC’s sayings and what Islam teaches, i cant change what Islam is. If youve read Al Qur’aan any translation, Yusuf Ali’s or Shakirs are good, you’d know what Im talking about.

Pax.
 
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MorphRC:
Brainwashed? Oh Please, there as brainwashed as much as we are if you put it that way. We go to Mass and learn, they go to Mosque and learn. We should pray 3 times a day [Didache], they pray 5 times a day, they read the Quran for certain hours, the Church encourages the same with the Bible. They aint brainwashed, if they are then we are to, then also Jews are with the daily Torah study of 2hrs or more, plus Temple services, not to mention Buddhist Monks, who pray for almost 10 hours a day!

Also I never stated it was what the Church said Chris. I simply went by what the CCC said, which also condones and hopes people who write about the faith, keep their thoughts in communion with the CCC. I gave the CCC’s sayings and what Islam teaches, i cant change what Islam is. If youve read Al Qur’aan any translation, Yusuf Ali’s or Shakirs are good, you’d know what Im talking about.

Pax.
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Personally I feel that Islam has the spirit of the anti-christ, so don’t think I am trying to defend it. All I am saying is that we can’t throw out blanket judgements on Muslims given the invincible ignorance teachings of the Church. Of course only God knows who is truly invincibly ignorant, and I am in no way deciding that for Him.
 
Personally I feel that Islam has the spirit of the anti-christ, so don’t think I am trying to defend it. All I am saying is that we can’t throw out blanket judgements on Muslims given the invincible ignorance teachings of the Church. Of course only God knows who is truly invincibly ignorant, and I am in no way deciding that for Him.
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I agree Bro. But theres a difference between a Muslim and say a Jew. The Jewish Scriptures dont talk about Christ like Al Qur’aan. What im saying is I.I. Cannot apply to Muslims since, Al Qur’aan clearly talks about Christ, Clearly denies the Trinity, Denies Christ’s Divinity, Denies His Mission, And infact there are even doubts over if the Mary of Al Qur’aan is the same cause of name difficulties, St. Anna isnt the mother, someone else is, but Im not 100% sure on that part.

Pax
 
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MorphRC:
I agree Bro. But theres a difference between a Muslim and say a Jew. The Jewish Scriptures dont talk about Christ like Al Qur’aan. What im saying is I.I. Cannot apply to Muslims since, Al Qur’aan clearly talks about Christ, Clearly denies the Trinity, Denies Christ’s Divinity, Denies His Mission, And infact there are even doubts over if the Mary of Al Qur’aan is the same cause of name difficulties, St. Anna isnt the mother, someone else is, but Im not 100% sure on that part.

Pax
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There are many Jews that are vehemently opposed to the idea of Jesus being the Messiah. What about them?
 
MALO – So refreshing to see your very correct view of Islam in here. It IS totally pagan. I also am very upset at hearing people say, “They worship the same God” yadayada. We heard a compelling series from an Armenian pastor who grew up in the Old City of Jerusalem and Amman, Jordan, speaks Arabic, read the Koran. He said 'It is pagan, they worship the moon goddess" and exposed very many other heretical and anti-Christian facets of Islam. I am also reading Hillaire Belloc’s Five Heresies (1939) – he exposes Islam for one of the great heresies. Very compelling. We must understand Islam clearly, and only The Truth will set us free. Without Christ’s clarity we are fighting our own illusions.
 
_Christopher_:
There are many Jews that are vehemently opposed to the idea of Jesus being the Messiah. What about them?
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Well they damn themselves through that statement. Christ didnt come to be argued over, or be discussed, He came, clearly stated He is ‘The way the truth and the Life’, "No one goes to the Father, but through Me’. If you reject Him, your are rejected from heaven.

Saint Ambrose, Doctor, (died A.D. 397):

“The Lord severed the Jewish people from his kingdom, and heretics and schismatics are also severed from the kingdom of God and from the Church. Our Lord makes it perfectly clear that every assembly of heretics and schismatics belongs not to God, but to the unclean spirit.” (Explanation of Luke)

Saint Fulgentius (died A.D. 533):

“Most firmly hold and never doubt that not only all pagans, but also all Jews, all heretics, and all schismatics who finish this life outside of the Catholic Church, will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels.” (To Peter on the Faith)

Blessed Juliana of Norwich (died A.D. 1423):

“I knew in my faith that the Jews were accursed and condemned without end, except those who were converted.” (Sixteen Revelations of Divine Love)

Saint Peter Canisius S.J., Doctor, (died A.D. 1597):

“Outside of this communion, as outside of the ark of Noah, there is absolutely no salvation for mortals: not for Jews or pagans who never received the faith of the Church, nor for heretics who, having received it, corrupted it; not for schismatics who left the peace and unity of the Church; and finally neither for the excommunicated or those who for any other serious cause deserve to be put away and separated from the body of the Church like pernicious members. For the rule of Cyprian and Augustine is certain: he will not have God for his Father who would not have the Church for his mother.” (Catechismi Latini et Germanici)

Pax Iesus
 
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Charles:
I lived in Indonesia for two years back in the mid '90’s and was impressed with several aspects of Islam (without ever caring to part from my own place in the Catholic Church).

One was their devotion to prayer. Calls to prayer were publicly announced 5 times a day. Many Christians could learn a lesson from this devotion.
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You wouldn’t want to imitate that feature. Muslim prayer, just like Jewish prayer, is soulless, mechanical, by virtue of reciting routinely the same thing every day. It’s not devotion, it’s roboticism.
 
My friend Srdja Trifkovic has written an excellent popular political history of Islam called THE SWORD OF THE PROPHET. If you harbor any illusions about Islam, the scales will fall from your eyes, after reading this book. You can order it here.

chronicles.k-online.biz/cgi-bin/472C857A/mac/additmdtl.mac/showItemDetail?loadItem=SWOR

Also: All RC’s should memorize Chesterton’s Lepanto and teach it to their children.

Christopher Check
Exec VP
The Rockford Institute
www.chroniclesmagazine.org
 
Heathen Dawn:
You wouldn’t want to imitate that feature. Muslim prayer, just like Jewish prayer, is soulless, mechanical, by virtue of reciting routinely the same thing every day. It’s not devotion, it’s roboticism.
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I would not want to imitate any religion that encourages repetitive prayers, which are devoid of the contemplative opportunity repetitive prayers offer, as a part of the faithful’s devotions. There are many people of many different faiths who pray repetitively without thinking about what they are saying. There are both non-christians and christians who, unfortunately, robotically repeat repetitive prayers. There are also, in my experience, both christians and non-christians who make use of what may sound to outsiders like mindless repetition of prayers but in fact are involved in a deeply devotional experience.

That said, there can be something valuable, to those willing to look for the good, in being reminded, even from a religion that does not have the full deposit of our faith, that we too are encouraged to pray without ceasing. If God helped me to remember that through the devotion I saw to prayer among Moslem friends of mine (and many of them would surprise you by their fervor and lack of mechanical adherence to mere words, regardless of how we may feel about their religion) then praise God, who can remind us of his glory and worthiness of being praised even in the middle of a country that is overwhelmingly Moslem!

I cannot hate or judge people who are moslem. Thank goodness God doesn’t require me to! I worry that the attitude expressed by so many on this thread might create difficulties to the acceptance of our Faith by people we should be evangelizing. For me the proper attitude has been to anticipate the sincerity of anyone who has a faith different from mine while being frank about my own faithfullness to the Church and knowledgeable enough to discuss that faith with non-Christians when the opportunity presents itself. Writing off an entire religion and everyone in it with blanket statements like everyone’s brainwashed and going to hell seems to have less of a prospect for success in evangelization.
 
Chris C.:
My friend Srdja Trifkovic has written an excellent popular political history of Islam called THE SWORD OF THE PROPHET. If you harbor any illusions about Islam, the scales will fall from your eyes, after reading this book. You can order it here.

chronicles.k-online.biz/cgi-bin/472C857A/mac/additmdtl.mac/showItemDetail?loadItem=SWOR

Also: All RC’s should memorize Chesterton’s Lepanto and teach it to their children.

Christopher Check
Exec VP
The Rockford Institute
www.chroniclesmagazine.org
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👍 👍 👍 👍

I read that book, and ended up buying it cause its so brilliant. And it uses Islam against itself, so if a Muslim argues, there argueing against their own religion…lol. WIN WIN!
 
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bboop:
MALO – So refreshing to see your very correct view of Islam in here. It IS totally pagan. I also am very upset at hearing people say, “They worship the same God” yadayada. We heard a compelling series from an Armenian pastor who grew up in the Old City of Jerusalem and Amman, Jordan, speaks Arabic, read the Koran. He said 'It is pagan, they worship the moon goddess" and exposed very many other heretical and anti-Christian facets of Islam. I am also reading Hillaire Belloc’s Five Heresies (1939) – he exposes Islam for one of the great heresies. Very compelling. We must understand Islam clearly, and only The Truth will set us free. Without Christ’s clarity we are fighting our own illusions.
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Is the Catechism of the Catholic Church on of our illusions?
 
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MorphRC:
Well they damn themselves through that statement. Christ didnt come to be argued over, or be discussed, He came, clearly stated He is ‘The way the truth and the Life’, "No one goes to the Father, but through Me’. If you reject Him, your are rejected from heaven.

Saint Ambrose, Doctor, (died A.D. 397):

“The Lord severed the Jewish people from his kingdom, and heretics and schismatics are also severed from the kingdom of God and from the Church. Our Lord makes it perfectly clear that every assembly of heretics and schismatics belongs not to God, but to the unclean spirit.” (Explanation of Luke)

Saint Fulgentius (died A.D. 533):

“Most firmly hold and never doubt that not only all pagans, but also all Jews, all heretics, and all schismatics who finish this life outside of the Catholic Church, will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels.” (To Peter on the Faith)

Blessed Juliana of Norwich (died A.D. 1423):

“I knew in my faith that the Jews were accursed and condemned without end, except those who were converted.” (Sixteen Revelations of Divine Love)

Saint Peter Canisius S.J., Doctor, (died A.D. 1597):

“Outside of this communion, as outside of the ark of Noah, there is absolutely no salvation for mortals: not for Jews or pagans who never received the faith of the Church, nor for heretics who, having received it, corrupted it; not for schismatics who left the peace and unity of the Church; and finally neither for the excommunicated or those who for any other serious cause deserve to be put away and separated from the body of the Church like pernicious members. For the rule of Cyprian and Augustine is certain: he will not have God for his Father who would not have the Church for his mother.” (Catechismi Latini et Germanici)

Pax Iesus
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Yes, I am aware of our Church’s condemnations. The quetion is…why doesn’t it teach that now?
 
Pax Iesus Chris.

One word: Ecumenism. That one word and its meaning has sacrificed so much in the Church. Now the Church says the jews arent accused but they were before VII. I no longer recognize Vatican II as a valid council. It contradicts to many teachings and beliefs prior to it. Now im ‘persecuted’ by Catholics when i state those kinds of quotes. Even today, I quoted one of those statements and the person totally ignored it infavour for Vatican II teachings, Im sorry but I refuse to throw away 1900 years of teachings, just to keep some heretics, and make friends with people that are enemies of God and the Church.

Pax.
 
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