Catholic View on Pull Out of Israeli Settlements?

[gnjsdad]

This is another take on the “expulsion” of the Gaza settlers by my favorite Israeli commentator, Ran Ha Cohen

Excerpt:

The “poor settlers” image dominates the Israeli media not because it is in love with the settlers, but because it is obedient. Prime Minister Sharon wants the eviction to be portrayed as a huge national trauma – as a means against any future withdrawals – so that’s what the media is doing. The narrative adopted is the settlers’ narrative. The tears dripping from my television set day and night are shed by both the settlers and the evicting forces, and it’s the same tears: both sides share a narrative that portrays the removal of the illegal settlements, or the decolonization of occupied Palestinian land, as an historic tragedy, “uprooting,” “deportation.” Neither the government nor the media offers an alternative – neither a narrative of decolonization as a step toward peace (the very last narrative Sharon would ever adopt) nor any other. All that the soldiers and policemen cling to is the formal argumentation of obeying legitimate orders following a democratically taken decision. And at any rate, they have been ordered not to argue with the settlers, so that the latter’s narrative dominates the entire stage. The settlers, observes Ehud Asheri, are “Losing on the ground, winning on TV.”

The entire article…

 

[gilliam]

Thekla:

Unlike other democracies, Israel has no single-document Consitution; they were supposed to write one, but it never got done.

Neither does the UK

 

[MikeWM]

gilliam:

Neither does the UK

Indeed not. There was quite a clamour for one about 10-15 years ago, but nowadays there don’t seem to be many people who care. The system of laws, protocols, precedents and traditions has done us quite well for 800 years or so, for the most part

Mike

 

[Steve_O_Brien]

Please read this column by Charley Reese:

antiwar.com/reese/?articleid=7022

Reese’s viewpoint is consonant with the Church’s teachings on justice and peace, and with the Church’s respect for international law. Please see Vatican II’s Gaudium et spes, sections 77-90.

According to international law, all Israeli settlements in the territories that Israel occupied in the 1967 war are illegal. The Fourth Geneva Convention (article 49) prohibits such population transfers. Further, Israel should not even be occupying these territories: U.N. Security Council Resolution 242 demanded that Israel withdraw from these areas. Please remember that the United States voted for Resolution 242.

In addition to all the documents of Catholic social teaching, I recommend the following booklet by Phyllis Bennis: A Primer: Understanding the Palestinian-Israeli Conflict. You can order it from this Web site:

www.tari.org

Matt25, thanks for posting statements of the Holy See on this issue!

Keep and spread the Faith.

 

[bapcathluth]

gilliam:

Neither does the UK

Just what I was going to reply. I would also like to know what rights Jews have in Israel proper that Israeli Arabs don’t have. I would venture to guess that many Jews wish that they didn’t need to serve in the army.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

MikeWM:

Indeed not. There was quite a clamour for one about 10-15 years ago, but nowadays there don’t seem to be many people who care. The system of laws, protocols, precedents and traditions has done us quite well for 800 years or so

It’s done the lawyers quite well.

MikeWM:

for the most part

It’s the other part that is worrisome.

 

[Cockney_Clive]

JOHNYJ:

gnjisdat # 10
arabs sit in parliament some may even be christians.

Some of the Palestinians in the Knesset may even be Moslem! Sadly, between the Israelis on one hand, and the Moslems on the other, the Palestinian Christian population has fallen from about 21% of the population 30 years ago, to about 6% today. And rapidly declining.

There is a real danger of an Indigenous Christian presence in the Holy Land disappearing altogether within the next 15 years. If your Parish has any appeals for the Holy Land - supporting the Holy Places and so forth - then please contribute. You might also consider joining a Holy Land Pilgrimage and/or buying trade goods, crafts and so forth from reputable sources supporting the Christians. It really is that desperate.

 

[JOHNYJ]

Christians are leaving the Holy Land because Muslims ar making it a very dangerous place.

 

[MikeWM]

Ani Ibi:

It’s done the lawyers quite well.

That is very true

It’s the other part that is worrisome.

That is very true too. On the positive side, we have far less a problem with ‘activist’ judges than the USA has, law passed by parliament is supreme[1].

Mike

[1] There are interesting developments with EU law and the European Convention on Human Rights. Nevertheless, these incidents are few and far between, at least so far.

 

[grotto]

smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/7/7_2_126.gifA Catholic view (mine) on Israeli settlements pull out:

As I see it, Israel fought several attacking Arab countries; enemies were defeated; Israel took over the barren land; offered Israeli citizens to settle and improve the land; found it bloody and expensive to protect the settlements and rid the land of mortal enemies; in a well thought out plan have requested a de-settlement of the land and reimbursed/relocated the settlers (those willing). In the final interests of peace, once again Israel is offering their hand to the Palestinians who want the barren land to call their own (well, maybe not so barren anymore but we won’t quibble), all that is needed is no more murdering nor breaking of promises not to murder on both sides. smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_12_1.gif
Okay, it is going to be interesting to observe the peaceful process bloom in the land of Palestine. A few terrorist organizations will be without work - right? If the answer is NO then all bets are off smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/23/23_28_101.gif the once again barren land will remain.

 

[gnjsdad]

smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/7/7_2_126.gifA Catholic view (mine) on Israeli settlements pull out:

As I see it, Israel fought several attacking Arab countries; enemies were defeated; Israel took over the barren land; offered Israeli citizens to settle and improve the land; found it bloody and expensive to protect the settlements and rid the land of mortal enemies; in a well thought out plan have requested a de-settlement of the land and reimbursed/relocated the settlers (those willing). In the final interests of peace, once again Israel is offering their hand to the Palestinians who want the barren land to call their own (well, maybe not so barren anymore but we won’t quibble), all that is needed is no more murdering nor breaking of promises not to murder on both sides. smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_12_1.gif
Okay, it is going to be interesting to observe the peaceful process bloom in the land of Palestine. A few terrorist organizations will be without work - right? If the answer is NO then all bets are off smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/23/23_28_101.gif the once again barren land will remain.

Barren land??? Are you serious? There are 1 million + Palestinians in Gaza, some of whom had their land taken illegally by Israel. I think you really need to do more research on this before you say this is “barren land”.

 

[thestickman]

gnjsdad:

Barren land??? Are you serious? There are 1 million + Palestinians in Gaza, some of whom had their land taken illegally by Israel. I think you really need to do more research on this before you say this is “barren land”.

At least as much as you need to before you say illegally.

 

[gnjsdad]

thestickman:

At least as much as you need to before you say illegally.

No country but Israel recognizes Israel’s right to the occupied territories. So, yes, illegally is the word.

 

[gnjsdad]

I like Charley Reese’s take on this…

Excerpt…

As I watched the extensive, plainly sympathetic coverage of Jewish settlers being evicted from their Gaza homes, I couldn’t help but take note once again of the striking double standard applied by American news media as well as the U.S. government.

I cannot recall any sympathetic coverage of Palestinians being evicted from their homes. No interviews with weeping mothers or fathers. No discussions of whether the evictions were right or wrong. This is obviously a deliberate policy on the part of America’s television networks, for after all, they had 4,170 opportunities to report on Palestinian evictions since September 2000. That’s how many homes were destroyed, and, of course, doesn’t count the orchards and olive trees bulldozed by the Israeli army or Israeli settlers.

The entire article…

 

[thestickman]

gnjsdad:

No country but Israel recognizes Israel’s right to the occupied territories. So, yes, illegally is the word.

And the moon is made of cheese, eh? Lemme guess, this is according to the infamous international law folks adore.

Reality rules!

1948 May: Egyptian forces move up along the Palestinian coastline in an attempt to reach Tel Aviv. Being pushed back by Jewish forces, a British ceasefire agreement stops the Jewish troops while the Egyptians still hold the Gaza territory. Soon after, large groups of Palestinian refugees are coming in to Gaza.
— During the Egyptian occupation little was done to improve the conditions on the Gaza Strip and the borders between Egypt and the occupied strip are virtually closed. The Gazan population does not receive any citizenship, and large parts of the population survive on UN relief schemes.

So when did Egypt give this land to the so-called palestinians exactly?

 

[gnjsdad]

thestickman:

the so-called palestinians

So what are they, if not Palestinians?

 

[thestickman]

gnjsdad:

So what are they, if not Palestinians?

Jordanian Arabs & Egyptians for the most part. So when did Egypt give Gaza to the so-called palestinians again?

 

[gnjsdad]

thestickman:

Jordanian Arabs & Egyptians for the most part. So when did Egypt give Gaza to the so-called palestinians again?

Egypt didn’t “give” Gaza to anyone. It’s a piece of land populated by the descendants of those who were driven off their land in the course of the Arab-Israel War of 1948.

I find your reference to “so called palestinians” troubling, a bit like “so called African Americans” if you ask me. Palestinians are a distinct nationality.

Under the British military administration, before the Palestine Mandate went into effect, Trans-Jordan was recognized as a seperate entity (and later an independent state in May 1923, months before the Palestine Mandate went into effect in September of the same year). Therefore, from the birth of the new Arab nationalities, Jordanians were recognized as distinctively different than Palestinians. While it is true that culturally, ethnically, and even liguistically there are few differences, the same could be said for Germany and Austria or the United States and Canada, nevertheless they are all distinctive based on nationality. Similarly, Jordanians and Palestinians evolved into two distinct nationalities. Even when the West Bank was under Jordanian rule (1948-1967) the Jordanians specifically and consciously differentiated between native Jordanians and Palestinians. The Palestinians were discriminated against by the Jordanians and this was the cause for most of the Palestinian uprisings against the Jordanians before the Israeli conquest.

 

[thestickman]

gnjsdad:

I find your reference to “so called palestinians” troubling, a bit like “so called African Americans”

Folks who migrate from Africa and become citizens of the US are certainly African Americans. My black niece is not. She was born in North Carolina and is a American, same as everyone else born in this nation.

if you ask me. Palestinians are a distinct nationality.

Based on the propaganda web site you linked to, I have no doubt you believe that.

 

[Shoshana]

The thing that bothered me the most about the expulsion of the settlers is that Israel decided to bulldoze houses, etc…and for what?..why not leave the empty house for those who could afford it? If anything is making a statement it is this action.

Just plain outrage!