Catholic vs Catholic "Extremists"?

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Ronald_E said:
I am sorry you do not see nor understand what I have been shown. Christ on the Cross and the Rosary are what form my thoughts that I do not actively formulate. They are not my thoughts. I do not try to think of them.
You cannot see that the Church really cannot be hurt. However, you act like the Church is being hurt because you think the Church is being hurt.
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Yes the Church can be hurt. When the Church is persecuted, so is Christ. Jesus to Saul: “Why are you persecuting ME?”
Christ was not hurt on the Cross.
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This is a heretical statement.
 
mapleoak said:
Yes the Church can be hurt. When the Church is persecuted, so is Christ. Jesus to Saul: “Why are you persecuting ME?”
This is a heretical statement.
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I guess you just want to express your outrage instead of asking questions about what I am saying.
 
Ronald, I respectfully disagree with your previous statements which I quoted. In addition, I think your idea, your vision of being Christian in this world is anemic, that is, lacking vigor, bloodless, watered down. Christ’s sacrifice on the cross was not bloodless. As Catholics we are supposed to remember that with the perennial image of the crucifix and the tortured Christ, as opposed to the clean, white, sanitized cross of the Protestant. I’m sorry if that came across as too personal, but it seems to be thread across all of your posts that I have read.

At this point, I have no idea what it is you think is wrong with a Christian standing up and saying, “this is a disgrace”. Not throwing rocks, or balloons filled with blood, or shouting epithets, but simply stating the truth; via a letter, a petition, an article, a forum post, a humble gathering, or boycotting an event. I’m fairly young; my parents were boomers. I grew up faithless in a world that has been radically transformed because there were Christians in the world who did not stand up and take a vociferous enough position, who did not fight against no-fault divorce, abortion, adultery, having kids outside of marriage, etc. I, personally, have been harmed by their inaction. Now that I *am *a person of faith, I simply cannot remain silent while there are others like the child that I was out there.

Reverend Hoye is my idea of the ideal Christian. What is yours? Who is your model?
 
magdelaine said:
Ronald, I respectfully disagree with your previous statements which I quoted. In addition, I think your idea, your vision of being Christian in this world is anemic, that is, lacking vigor, bloodless, watered down. Christ’s sacrifice on the cross was not bloodless. As Catholics we are supposed to remember that with the perennial image of the crucifix and the tortured Christ, as opposed to the clean, white, sanitized cross of the Protestant. I’m sorry if that came across as too personal, but it seems to be thread across all of your posts that I have read.

At this point, I have no idea what it is you think is wrong with a Christian standing up and saying, “this is a disgrace”. Not throwing rocks, or balloons filled with blood, or shouting epithets, but simply stating the truth; via a letter, a petition, an article, a forum post, a humble gathering, or boycotting an event. I’m fairly young; my parents were boomers. I grew up faithless in a world that has been radically transformed because there were Christians in the world who did not stand up and take a vociferous enough position, who did not fight against no-fault divorce, abortion, adultery, having kids outside of marriage, etc. I, personally, have been harmed by their inaction. Now that I *am *a person of faith, I simply cannot remain silent while there are others like the child that I was out there.

Reverend Hoye is my idea of the ideal Christian. What is yours? Who is your model?
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Magdelaine,
If you read through my posts you will see my faith. The action that came to me to stop abortion while I was on my morning Rosary Run was to run across the country joined by tens of thousands or more of Catholics praying the Rosary without any signs or petitions, being supported by fellow Catholics on the road and creating a movement that could not be ignored by uniting all of the different apostolates and using the EWTN mobile broadcast vehicle so that every show could be done on the road. If we were willing to give up everything to follow Him our faith could not be ignored. It would show what we stand for without looking like we are opposed to anyone in particular.
If we truly believe in saving the unborn and their mothers from the trajedy of abortion we must take steps, literally, just as Christ did to spread the Word.
I must go to work now. I have a much more detailed explanation which I have submitted to EWTN hosts and have been rejected with statements like a great undertaking, I will pray about it, impractical, etc. I have been told that more sacrifice is required to match the level of suffering and death in the world.

I do understand your outrage and I also have outrage that there is an unwillingness to sacrifice which approaches the sacrifice of the innocent lives being lost.
 
mapleoak said:
Part of the problem is we are an ‘infiltrated Church’ as my pastor likes to call it. Throughout most of history the devil has worked to attack the Church from the outside. He is now more clever in his tactics and attacking it from within. Do not despair though, as we have Christ’s assurance the the power of hell cannot prevail against it.
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I often think much along the lines of your post, maple. I see so much hypocrisy and exceptions being made to the faith. But on the other hand, how do we consider who the ‘real’ Catholics are and the ‘infiltrators?’ Since we are all sinners, you and I most definitely included, and in serious need of Christ, so are these ‘cafeteria’ Catholics as they are often called.

Put it this way, my wife and I have some friends. They (a married couple) are converts so they are MEGA into their faith right now. They read the catechism voraciously and want to follow the faith in a lively way. That’s great. But the wife’s brother was cohabitating with this woman while they were setting up their marriage plans. They had been cohabitating for about six months or so. They were very open about it. They planned on marrying but were quite honest that there was nothing wrong with living together in the meantime. They invited our friends over. So, here our newly-Catholic friends are invited over to the brother’s home for dinner. Our friends were in this conundrum, “do we go eat with them and scandalize our two teenage boys or do we refuse?” They ended up refusing and explaining to the brother that he was living in sin and they didn’t want to scandalize their sons. The brother now will not speak with them, tensions are out of control, they’ve written nasty notes back and forth, my friend receives nasty emails from the brother-in-law, and you wouldn’t believe the craziness that came out of that whole deal.

I sat back and thought how much I DETEST cohabitation and condemn it as a sin but then I remember how my fiancee and I lived together for a month before we got married and fell to temptation. Then I remember how Jesus ate at the house of tax collector’s and walked with prostitutes, forgave adulterers, hung out with Roman centurions, and touched the ‘unclean.’ Jesus went to the homes of sinners, not condoning their lifestyle, but reaching out to them because they are in need.

As a Catholic, and a very conservative one at that, I have been a hypocrite in my faith at many points in my life. Perhaps my friends should have merely gone to visit him and explained to their sons that they don’t condone the lifestyle and neither should they but shown some courtesy and respect to the people inviting them? I don’t know? I really don’t. These are tough questions. But I don’t want to get to a point in my faith that I say, “I’m a true Catholic, I tow the line, man, and those folks voting for Obama or having sex are doomed. They’re posers.” I don’t condone what sins take place, but I do know the Pharisees reacted to Christ as a usurper, a weak moral coward who would dine and visit with sinning scum, and Jesus wasn’t following the ‘catechism’ of his day in disobeying the Sabbath, forgiving sins in God’s name, and in his ministry to Samaritans or Romans.

These are tough areas for me. I hate the word “extremist” but I think when we’ve gotten to that point, “I follow my catechism, do YOU!?” I get worried.
 
selah -
Yes, you are in the minority. But, sometimes, that’s an all right place to be. The people who survived from the Titanic were in the minority, too!!😃
 
It is always appropriate to be concerned about your walk with Christ. But when you are worried, talk to your priest. Internet forums are filled with anonymous people.

We, as Catholics, need to live out our faith in our lives, and be considerate of the fact that others do not live as we do. That said, we should seek discernment. The best way to not condone any alternative lifestyle is to not live it yourself. The Bible tells us that an appropriate word at the appropriate time is precious. The Holy Spirit will inspire you to speak at the right time.

The list of lies that were propagated starting in 1968 are:

We, meaning everyone, cannot control our sexuality.
The Church teaches us to be chaste or married.

Cohabitation and fornication are OK as long as you love one another.
Self-control in this area leaves time to get to know the other person better.

Pornography. What’s the big deal?
Addiction to lust.

Consent and “consenting adults.”
It’s true. Right now, around the world, people are doing whatever they want behind closed doors, however, that does not excuse immorality.

Prostition - it’s a ‘victimless’ crime.
Fornication is always immoral.

There are no absolutes - and you should absolutely believe that!
Radical individualists, primarily concerned with physical pleasure - sex, drugs, and self-gratification - are living as if no God exists.

When Jesus spoke to the woman who was about to be stoned (killed legally) for adultery, He showed her mercy but told her to sin no more.

Unfortunately, too many believe that they have no reason to feel guilty or ashamed or sinful. The Catholic Community slowly, gradually became totally insensitive to seeing or hearing or doing sin. They exchanged the Truth for a lie. But to those who did not live through this time period, as I did, it seems like Catholics didn’t fight. It was a slow poisoning, a gradual poisoning. Things didn’t turn from light to dark overnight, instead, things gradually turned a little darker, a little darker and a little darker. Our trust and compassion was exploited many times. In some cases, we simply trusted the wrong people.

Peace,
Ed
 
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