Catholic vs. Christian

[CopticChristian]

acts 11:26 was the first time followers of jesus were called christians.In mexico if you call a roman catholic a christian they will get offended, hardcore catholics do not want to be included in the christian denomination.Roman catholics wanted to be separated from christian followers from the beginning read real catholic history they were loyal to the pope more than to the study of scripture.But not all catholics agreed thats how you got people like Martin luther to me one of the greatest catholics of all time.

Martin ranks right up there with Nestorius, Pelagius, Berangerius, Judas, Henry VIII, Bart Brewer and many others…

I can understand why you would not pick Calvin the murderer, Zwingli the fornicator or Erasmus who wrote love letters to another monk…did you happen to notice that Berangerius repented.

 

[JonNC]

That’s interesting. Do you also wear crucifixes? Do you have the large crucifix in your churches?

My most prized possession is the crucifix my father wore as a Lutheran pastor. Our parish has a large crucifix over the altar, and my daughter’s Lutheran college chapel also had one.

Jon

 

[Miriam1947]

One of my customers in my Catholic bookstore is a Lutheran. She loves Our Lady of Guadalupe.

Another customer is Salvation Army and she prays the Rosary.

Just because they are not Catholic does not mean they don’t appreciate some very Catholic things.

Besides the Crucifix is for everyone. I love it. It brings home to me everyday what Christ did for us.

And in our little church we have a big one hanging in front of the altar.

 

[GraceSofia]

Thank you, JonNC and hn160 for answering my questions.

***Miriam1947 ***wrote:

Just because they are not Catholic does not mean they don’t appreciate some very Catholic things.

That’s lovely to hear. I think it depends on the person, and on the strand of Protestantism.
I came from a nondenominational/evangelical group that thought wearing crucifixes was wrong, saying the Lord’s Prayer was repetitive, Catholicism was a cult, Catholics don’t have a “personal” relationships with Jesus, etc, etc.

 

[DominicJoseph]

You know I can relate to juan e flores.

He has some valid points. Maybe for people in the Western world it might sound ridiculous to differentiate Christian to Catholic but what I also found that in Indonesia many Catholics would be offended if you were to call them Christians.

Perhaps it is because the word Christians have this connotation of being a part of an evangelical, Protestan church and others.

Personally I’d still refer my self to be a Catholic if I was asked.

 

[crazzeto]

You know I can relate to juan e flores.

He has some valid points. Maybe for people in the Western world it might sound ridiculous to differentiate Christian to Catholic but what I also found that in Indonesia many Catholics would be offended if you were to call them Christians.

Perhaps it is because the word Christians have this connotation of being a part of an evangelical, Protestan church and others.

Personally I’d still refer my self to be a Catholic if I was asked.

The desire to dissasociate ones self from these teachings should not bring us to deny fundalmental truths. It is Holy Mother Church that brought the light of Christ to the world, this should never be denied.

 

[JustaServant]

One of my customers in my Catholic bookstore is a Lutheran. She loves Our Lady of Guadalupe.

Another customer is Salvation Army and she prays the Rosary.

Just because they are not Catholic does not mean they don’t appreciate some very Catholic things.

Besides the Crucifix is for everyone. I love it. It brings home to me everyday what Christ did for us.

And in our little church we have a big one hanging in front of the altar.

Years ago I remember hearing a teacher (monks clothes, bald and beard, name escapes me now) on EWTN say the most Godly person he knew in his neighborhood was an elderly African American Baptist woman.
People like that tend to be drowned out by the loudmouths who are on a ‘mission’ to convert Catholics.
But I beleive God hears people that monk describes loud and clear.

 

[crazzeto]

Years ago I remember hearing a teacher (monks clothes, bald and beard, name escapes me now) on EWTN say the most Godly person he knew in his neighborhood was an elderly African American Baptist woman.
People like that tend to be drowned out by the loudmouths who are on a ‘mission’ to convert Catholics.
But I beleive God hears people that monk describes loud and clear.

I agree, God will hear any humble soul seeking his love.

 

[DerrickGuns]

Not sure if this belongs in this thread or not but wanted to throw it out there to everyone.

You know the bible says God puts searching into our hearts for something other than this world. I believe he gave me a double portion of that.
I definitely believe in an intelligent creator. Be it God or someone else. I believe it to be God. But is there really a trinity? Was Jesus actually God and the Holy Spirit all combined yet separate. I believe that but where in scripture is the word trinity? The trinity came from the Roman Catholic Church. So there are things outside of scripture we believe as doctrine sometimes.
Yes you could say I am into doctrinal issues a great deal.
Have you ever been to a Church where they did things you felt just wasn’t right? And they didn’t do them until you already became heavily involved with them. Like preach a sermon that sounds not quite completely biblically based and telling you you should live a certain way by it?
I remember when I belonged to an Assembly of God church there for a while. They said you had to speak in tongues to be truly saved as a sign that the Holy Spirit was dwelling in you. Trouble is anyone could fake it and they would say it was a gift from God. Because even faking it was trying, thereby you were speaking in tongues by golly. Now that just never sit right with me even though I got a charge out of the preaching and the bible studies. Of course they had scriptures to back this point of view up as well so I believed what they said for a time. Until I did my own studying and could not support the idea myself from what the Holy Spirit was causing me to discern. Now I don’t want to fall into the same trap.
I belonged to a Sabbitarian church for a time. Until they said I should not work on Saturdays and needed to spend a certain amount of money to go someplace to celebrate one of the old testament festivals. Well of course the ten commandments tell us to keep the Sabbath day holy and rest from our labors. But the Catholic Church changed our rest day to Sunday a long time ago. The Sabbitatians said Jesus did not come to do away with the laws but to enhance them if you will. As Jesus said himself. So they still felt it was necessary to observe the Sabbath. Have you ever known anyone involved with Healthcare that did not have to work some Saturdays? They said not all healthcare actually included working but furnished a necessary aide that was needed or it may cause suffering so I was partially excluded from the rule. But I was still getting paid for it so they were unsure.
When I studied with the Jehovah’s Witnesses twice in my life I believed everything they taught me. They were the only ones to come to visit me once a week. Then they got me to go door to door once. What a bummer that is. People see you coming and run not walk the other way. They also made demands on my job that I could not uphold. Like off when they meet on Thursday evenings and Wednesdays and Sundays. Plus some Saturdays and any other time you have available off. Then there music really sucks. They have there own music and songs to sing. Mainstream worship music is totally off limits to listen to, as well as most other types of music. Cause it creates sentimental emotions that Satan can use against you to turn you back to your former life.
Then there are the Baptists that put down other churches like the Catholic Church and the pentacostals. I mean come on now we don’t have to put each other down when we’re there to worship God do we?
So now I am looking into the Catholic Church as an ideal church to belong to. Once I got passed the praying to Mary and the Saints. You pray to them to pray for you like you would say to a friend or pastor to pray for you. Since Catholics still think everyone that has died is actually alive in heaven that is why they do this.
Then there was the infallibility of the pope question. I learned this was only when he was seated at his position as pope and only on doctrinal matters. He is fallible otherwise. Like he could not predict the weather or go against the word of God. Yes I think I could spend the rest of my life reading about the Catholic Church and it’s saints and all to keep me busy I think and hope.
Oh and the Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that everyone is going to be resurrected to judgement. And God will create a new heaven and new earth the bible says. He made the earth for us to dwell on forever. So we are basically looking at heaven albeit not up to the newer standards that God will create. They teach that the 144,000 that go to heaven are special saints that God chooses to help him with the new government he must establish on the new earth he creates for our resurrected bodies. All that seems quite logical when you think about it. Some that have been chosen in the past can actually loose their saint hood while in heaven and choose not to do what God calls them to do thereby leaving openings for new ones to be selected from time to time. Don’t ask me to explain that cause I don’t have a clue how that would happen.
Anyway I plan to stay with the Catholic Church for the remainder of my days learning as much as I can. Am learning a lot everyday and love every minute of it. God bless you all.

 

[CopticChristian]

Not sure if this belongs in this thread or not but wanted to throw it out there to everyone.

You know the bible says God puts searching into our hearts for something other than this world. I believe he gave me a double portion of that.
I definitely believe in an intelligent creator. Be it God or someone else. I believe it to be God. But is there really a trinity? Was Jesus actually God and the Holy Spirit all combined yet separate. I believe that but where in scripture is the word trinity? The trinity came from the Roman Catholic Church. So there are things outside of scripture we believe as doctrine sometimes.
Yes you could say I am into doctrinal issues a great deal.
Have you ever been to a Church where they did things you felt just wasn’t right? And they didn’t do them until you already became heavily involved with them. Like preach a sermon that sounds not quite completely biblically based and telling you you should live a certain way by it?
I remember when I belonged to an Assembly of God church there for a while. They said you had to speak in tongues to be truly saved as a sign that the Holy Spirit was dwelling in you. Trouble is anyone could fake it and they would say it was a gift from God. Because even faking it was trying, thereby you were speaking in tongues by golly. Now that just never sit right with me even though I got a charge out of the preaching and the bible studies. Of course they had scriptures to back this point of view up as well so I believed what they said for a time. Until I did my own studying and could not support the idea myself from what the Holy Spirit was causing me to discern. Now I don’t want to fall into the same trap.
I belonged to a Sabbitarian church for a time. Until they said I should not work on Saturdays and needed to spend a certain amount of money to go someplace to celebrate one of the old testament festivals. Well of course the ten commandments tell us to keep the Sabbath day holy and rest from our labors. But the Catholic Church changed our rest day to Sunday a long time ago. The Sabbitatians said Jesus did not come to do away with the laws but to enhance them if you will. As Jesus said himself. So they still felt it was necessary to observe the Sabbath. Have you ever known anyone involved with Healthcare that did not have to work some Saturdays? They said not all healthcare actually included working but furnished a necessary aide that was needed or it may cause suffering so I was partially excluded from the rule. But I was still getting paid for it so they were unsure.
When I studied with the Jehovah’s Witnesses twice in my life I believed everything they taught me. They were the only ones to come to visit me once a week. Then they got me to go door to door once. What a bummer that is. People see you coming and run not walk the other way. They also made demands on my job that I could not uphold. Like off when they meet on Thursday evenings and Wednesdays and Sundays. Plus some Saturdays and any other time you have available off. Then there music really sucks. They have there own music and songs to sing. Mainstream worship music is totally off limits to listen to, as well as most other types of music. Cause it creates sentimental emotions that Satan can use against you to turn you back to your former life.
Then there are the Baptists that put down other churches like the Catholic Church and the pentacostals. I mean come on now we don’t have to put each other down when we’re there to worship God do we?
So now I am looking into the Catholic Church as an ideal church to belong to. Once I got passed the praying to Mary and the Saints. You pray to them to pray for you like you would say to a friend or pastor to pray for you. Since Catholics still think everyone that has died is actually alive in heaven that is why they do this.
Then there was the infallibility of the pope question. I learned this was only when he was seated at his position as pope and only on doctrinal matters. He is fallible otherwise. Like he could not predict the weather or go against the word of God. Yes I think I could spend the rest of my life reading about the Catholic Church and it’s saints and all to keep me busy I think and hope.
Oh and the Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that everyone is going to be resurrected to judgement. And God will create a new heaven and new earth the bible says. He made the earth for us to dwell on forever. So we are basically looking at heaven albeit not up to the newer standards that God will create. They teach that the 144,000 that go to heaven are special saints that God chooses to help him with the new government he must establish on the new earth he creates for our resurrected bodies. All that seems quite logical when you think about it. Some that have been chosen in the past can actually loose their saint hood while in heaven and choose not to do what God calls them to do thereby leaving openings for new ones to be selected from time to time. Don’t ask me to explain that cause I don’t have a clue how that would happen.
Anyway I plan to stay with the Catholic Church for the remainder of my days learning as much as I can. Am learning a lot everyday and love every minute of it. God bless you all.

God is calling and you are responding…have you thought about RCIA so you get an accurate assessment of what it is that is taught and have you thought about reading the Catechism…I am told that the one for teens may be a good place to go as it has a Q & A format…I may get one…Start with this…the Baltimore Catechism…there is a format of question and answer…

catholicity.com/baltimore-catechism/

and here is a site with explanation of same…

cin.org/users/james/ebooks/master/baltimore/bindex.htm

Continue your search…

 

[Miriam1947]

Not sure if this belongs in this thread or not but wanted to throw it out there to everyone.

You know the bible says God puts searching into our hearts for something other than this world. I believe he gave me a double portion of that.

I definitely believe in an intelligent creator. Be it God or someone else. I believe it to be God. But is there really a trinity? Was Jesus actually God and the Holy Spirit all combined yet separate. I believe that but where in scripture is the word trinity? The trinity came from the Roman Catholic Church. So there are things outside of scripture we believe as doctrine sometimes.

Yes you could say I am into doctrinal issues a great deal.

Have you ever been to a Church where they did things you felt just wasn’t right? And they didn’t do them until you already became heavily involved with them. Like preach a sermon that sounds not quite completely biblically based and telling you you should live a certain way by it?

I remember when I belonged to an Assembly of God church there for a while. They said you had to speak in tongues to be truly saved as a sign that the Holy Spirit was dwelling in you. Trouble is anyone could fake it and they would say it was a gift from God. Because even faking it was trying, thereby you were speaking in tongues by golly. Now that just never sit right with me even though I got a charge out of the preaching and the bible studies. Of course they had scriptures to back this point of view up as well so I believed what they said for a time. Until I did my own studying and could not support the idea myself from what the Holy Spirit was causing me to discern. Now I don’t want to fall into the same trap.

I belonged to a Sabbitarian church for a time. Until they said I should not work on Saturdays and needed to spend a certain amount of money to go someplace to celebrate one of the old testament festivals. Well of course the ten commandments tell us to keep the Sabbath day holy and rest from our labors. But the Catholic Church changed our rest day to Sunday a long time ago. The Sabbitatians said Jesus did not come to do away with the laws but to enhance them if you will. As Jesus said himself. So they still felt it was necessary to observe the Sabbath.

Have you ever known anyone involved with Healthcare that did not have to work some Saturdays? They said not all healthcare actually included working but furnished a necessary aide that was needed or it may cause suffering so I was partially excluded from the rule. But I was still getting paid for it so they were unsure.

When I studied with the Jehovah’s Witnesses twice in my life I believed everything they taught me. They were the only ones to come to visit me once a week. Then they got me to go door to door once. What a bummer that is. People see you coming and run not walk the other way. They also made demands on my job that I could not uphold. Like off when they meet on Thursday evenings and Wednesdays and Sundays. Plus some Saturdays and any other time you have available off. Then there music really sucks. They have there own music and songs to sing. Mainstream worship music is totally off limits to listen to, as well as most other types of music. Cause it creates sentimental emotions that Satan can use against you to turn you back to your former life.

Then there are the Baptists that put down other churches like the Catholic Church and the pentacostals. I mean come on now we don’t have to put each other down when we’re there to worship God do we?

So now I am looking into the Catholic Church as an ideal church to belong to. Once I got passed the praying to Mary and the Saints. You pray to them to pray for you like you would say to a friend or pastor to pray for you. Since Catholics still think everyone that has died is actually alive in heaven that is why they do this.

Then there was the infallibility of the pope question. I learned this was only when he was seated at his position as pope and only on doctrinal matters. He is fallible otherwise. Like he could not predict the weather or go against the word of God. Yes I think I could spend the rest of my life reading about the Catholic Church and it’s saints and all to keep me busy I think and hope.

Oh and the Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that everyone is going to be resurrected to judgement. And God will create a new heaven and new earth the bible says. He made the earth for us to dwell on forever. So we are basically looking at heaven albeit not up to the newer standards that God will create. They teach that the 144,000 that go to heaven are special saints that God chooses to help him with the new government he must establish on the new earth he creates for our resurrected bodies. All that seems quite logical when you think about it. Some that have been chosen in the past can actually loose their saint hood while in heaven and choose not to do what God calls them to do thereby leaving openings for new ones to be selected from time to time. Don’t ask me to explain that cause I don’t have a clue how that would happen.

Anyway I plan to stay with the Catholic Church for the remainder of my days learning as much as I can. Am learning a lot everyday and love every minute of it. God bless you all.

 

[Jacob_Loyd]

I think Protestants refer to Catholics as non-Christians because Catholic dogma states there is only salvation in the church (which Orthodoxy does as well). However, I am unaware on the Catholic stance of whether one could be saved if they were not in communion with the Catholic Church. I know Orthodoxy states that some people are members of the church even though they are not in communion with the Orthodox Church namely because they say only God knows. I assume the same is for Catholics.

Also, most Protestants don’t understand the role of the pope and when papal infallibility applies. Its is a true shame that they misunderstand this and other important Catholic dogmas.

But as for me, I know Catholics are Christians. Their traditions and understandings were an important part that augmented and benefited Christian theology at the time that the Church was not broken apart in the 1054 Schism. What a true shame it was that it happened, we Orthodox focus more on other matters such as Christ the Victor and often forget about Christ the Victim (i.e. the Satisfaction theory of atonement). Both are needed in order to know the fullness of Christianity.

 

[robindenver]

Just today, for the umpteenth time, I heard someone refer to “Christians” (meaning Protestants) and Catholics as if they were two completely different categories. So yet again, I explained, patiently, that Catholics are indeed Christians. Has anyone else experienced this? I assume it comes out of the 1980’s evangelical explosion, which kind of came and went, but it seems to persist. Whence comes this public perception that only “Protestants” qualify as “Christians?”

This attempt to somehow claim an exclusive mantle for who (among Christians) are REALLY Christians appears to exist only within Christendom. Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc, all regard Catholics as Christians, as do most other Christians.

In fact, as someone who is Jewish, I can tell you that most Jews regard the Holy Father as not only the head of the Catholic Church, but as the head of Christendom as a whole.

It really makes no sense at all to claim that Catholics, who trace their Church all the way back to the apostles, are not Christians.

 

[GraceSofia]

In fact, as someone who is Jewish, I can tell you that most Jews regard the Holy Father as not only the head of the Catholic Church, but as the head of Christendom as a whole.

Good point.
Also, most Muslims seem to regard the Holy Father as the leader of all Christians. I remember them asking him to stop that Protestant pastor in Florida from burning a Koran, not realising that that pastor would not recognise the Pope’s authority anyway.

 

[DerrickGuns]

"God is calling and you are responding…have you thought about RCIA so you get an accurate assessment of what it is that is taught and have you thought about reading the Catechism…I am told that the one for teens may be a good place to go as it has a Q & A format…I may get one…Start with this…the Baltimore Catechism…there is a format of question and answer…

catholicity.com/baltimore-catechism/

and here is a site with explanation of same…

cin.org/users/james/ebook…ore/bindex.htm

Continue your search…

Oh yes I am in RCIA class now. But we aren’t doing as much as I want to. Last evening we went to an interdemoninational prayer service for the community. It was very moving. I havn’t been to a mass yet for several years anyway. I plan to go to my “first one” this weekend if I can. I hope it goes well as I don’t have many dress up clothes and have to ride a moped or bike. Well back to studying what I can find. Thanks for the links.

 

[Mostyn]

~Liza
Post #14.

‘‘Because it’s not “charitable” or “nice” to tell someone they aren’t what they think they are.’’

~
Jesus did exactly this.

Matthew 23.
33 “You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?

…and much more.

 

[Mostyn]

Because it’s not “charitable” or “nice” to tell someone they aren’t what they think they are.



Jesus did exactly this.

 

[rjarmendariz]

Yes we as Roman Catholics are Christians also. So are the Mormons, the Jehovah Witnesses and the Seventh - Day Adventists too and so forth because they believe in Christ Jesus like we do.

Anyone, I believe, who believes and accepts Jesus as the long awaited Messiah and acknowledges him as God is a Christian no matter where he or she may go to church at.

Remember that the Roman Catholic Church is very much Christian because it’s Christ centered with the Holy Eucharist. The Holy Eucharist is very tangible because it’s the actual blood and body of Jesus. We are the Body of Christ. We are the hands, arms, legs, feet and the like and Jesus is the Head. He is the God Head Bodily!!!

Being a Catholic Christian is being universal in scope. It’s about being open to all who wish to be part of it. Christ is universal for all who will believe in Him!!!

 

[Trebor135]

Yes we as Roman Catholics are Christians also. So are the Mormons, the Jehovah Witnesses and the Seventh - Day Adventists too and so forth because they believe in Christ Jesus like we do.

Anyone, I believe, who believes and accepts Jesus as the long awaited Messiah and acknowledges him as God is a Christian no matter where he or she may go to church at.

Remember that the Roman Catholic Church is very much Christian because it’s Christ centered with the Holy Eucharist. The Holy Eucharist is very tangible because it’s the actual blood and body of Jesus. We are the Body of Christ. We are the hands, arms, legs, feet and the like and Jesus is the Head. He is the God Head Bodily!!!

Being a Catholic Christian is being universal in scope. It’s about being open to all who wish to be part of it. Christ is universal for all who will believe in Him!!!

According to Catholic theology, though, Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormons can’t qualify as Christians. They deny the trinity and deity of Christ as orthodox believers have understood these doctrines over the past two thousand years, and their baptisms–which Catholic theology states, if they were trinitarian, would bring one into imperfect communion with the visible church–are null and void.

 

[Iotaunum]

False dichotomy - period. Anyone who says any different is either ignorant or a liar.