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kamz
Guest
Hmm, well, thank Goodness we don’t have to follow anything like that at our church as I think we would have an empty church if we had to start a dress code.
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Nota_Bene
Guest
I need to add that to the list!
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sunnyday
Guest
boy, this whole thread makes me scared, I did not realize how many people out there were watching me and judging me, when I’m at church I thought I was among my best friends, my brothers and sisters in Christ but if this is what I’m really in I think I’d be safer with a pack of wolves.
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tTt
Guest
:clapping:
Special Ministers should wear their Sunday Best too…
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kamz
Guest
Sunnyday, I’m starting to get that very same feeling, I never thought I would feel so judged or unwelcome because I have a different point of view, wow, imagine what Jesus must have felt when he would teach and some would not listen or they would treat him badly. Just remeber to keep treating everyone as you yourself would like to be treated even if they have differing views, its not easy but life of course is not easy. Peaceboy, this whole thread makes me scared, I did not realize how many people out there were watching me and judging me, when I’m at church I thought I was among my best friends, my brothers and sisters in Christ but if this is what I’m really in I think I’d be safer with a pack of wolves.
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fix
Guest
Again, it seems some think their only concern is themselves? I am particularly perplexed by the notion one may dress immodestly and claim it is their right, whether it is an occasion of sin for another or not?
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kamz
Guest
Did I say that? Nope, do I dress imodestly, I do not, but is it MY business to put a stop to others dressing that way, I think not.
If it is anyones business it should be up to the priest at the church, if he has a problem with it he should be the one to say something about it. All I am saying is, sure, go home and talk to your spouse and your kids and say, gee, we won’t be dressing like that, isn’t that too bad, but are you going to go up to the imodestly dressed person and say something to their face??
I bet there is not one person in this discussion who goes to Mass dressed imodestly, maybe dressed down compared to some but I bet we are all covering our bodies as I do and my children do.
NO, I don’t think its so great when people dress showing a ton of skin but does it make me not want them to come to church? NO, does it make me focus less on mass? No, is it really up to ME to say anything? No. So should it even be gone over and over on this board? No, if it is happening in your church and you don’t like it then go to the head of your parish, but griping on this board is not doing anything really is it? NO.
If it is anyones business it should be up to the priest at the church, if he has a problem with it he should be the one to say something about it. All I am saying is, sure, go home and talk to your spouse and your kids and say, gee, we won’t be dressing like that, isn’t that too bad, but are you going to go up to the imodestly dressed person and say something to their face??
I bet there is not one person in this discussion who goes to Mass dressed imodestly, maybe dressed down compared to some but I bet we are all covering our bodies as I do and my children do.
NO, I don’t think its so great when people dress showing a ton of skin but does it make me not want them to come to church? NO, does it make me focus less on mass? No, is it really up to ME to say anything? No. So should it even be gone over and over on this board? No, if it is happening in your church and you don’t like it then go to the head of your parish, but griping on this board is not doing anything really is it? NO.
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fix
Guest
I am not saying it is your duty to stop others from dressing immodestly. I was pointing out the mindset that claims one may dress anyway they want and no one else has an authentic right to be offended.
And the priest should be informed by the parishoners if there is a problem. And there are problems like this everywhere.
That would depend on circumstances. We should all follow the virtue of prudenence. That fact we even have to worry about it shows how far things have gotten out of hand that one has to confront immodest dress at mass says a lot.
I have to go to different churches often. I see plenty of immodest dress.
This is a false choice. It is not either dress immodestly or stay home. There are other choices.
That is not the entire issue, but your disposition is not identical to every other person. We are all part of the mystical body of Christ and we each have an obligation.
This board is about discussion. I was responding to a poster who claimed dressing immodestly is not anyone else’s problem. I disagree.
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newsong
Guest
Very sad reading these posts everyone is acting so self righteous, if you all have problems take them to your parishes and deal with it at that end but all you are all doing is bickering on and on and I bet none of you is going to the root of the matter and dealing with it in your own churches, why these same topics come up over and over on these boards, no one will ever agree but everyone thinks there way it the right way, face it you do, each of you thinks you have the right way and that is that:nope:
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Tantum_ergo
Guest
I’m not reading that kamz, for example, thinks it right to dress immodestly; in fact, she makes the point that she is thoroughly covered, clean, and subdued (dark colored jeans).
But I think I’ve uncovered what I call the Cromwellian “warts and all” philosophy that started in the 17th century and is seen today as “just plain folks”. “Just plain folks” are honest, truthful, sincere, don’t “care” about “appearance”, and look upon anyone who “does” care about appearance as “uppity snobs”.
Just as their extremity is seen in denial of any occasion whatsoever as being something “to dress for” since “the Lord sees into our hearts and doesn’t judge by appearance”, they project onto anyone who does dress up for any reason the extreme opposite judgment that the person does so “for snobbish reasons, to , is putting him or herself in the Lord’s place” etc.
The reality is, as usual, the middle ground rather than the extremes. But if people are extremist in their view, they feel the middle ground, or any type of “compromise”, would somehow totally invalidate their view. That, of course, makes them uncomfortable. It’s understandable.
I live in VT. Half the year–heck, three quarters of the year, if I wear a dress it’s long, it’s wool, and underneath are not nylons but leggings and leg warmers. Plenty of my neighbors are oldfarmers–just plain folks, living in dungarees and flannel shirts not for comfort so much as for practicality. But strangely enough, even if they’ve been out milking at 4 a.m., that same older farmer (male or female) will come to church not in the dungarees but in a suit (male) or dress or dressy pantsuit (female). It’s the “yuppie” middle aged or younger couples, who’ve bought up property, who come in wearing the L.L. Bean flannels and the designer, “distressed” jeans to Mass, and who I might see an hour later in the day at the bistro in the city wearing suits and dresses. Or the younger teens who slouch in wearing outfits they had probably slept in, and which they’ll wear again for most of the week at school, despite having in their closets plenty of more attractive attire–usually this is a “rebellion” against Mom and Dad, who buy the “nice” clothes, and who must be shown that the offspring are so mature and independent that they’ll dress to please themselves–and incidentally to look just like every other little budding “rebel” in the high school–currently, the look of choice is “gangsta rap” male and Brittny clone or goth female.
Kamz, I sympathize with your problem with “dresses”, but (and I’m no psychologist) I think that you are taking one or two experiences and turning them into an incipient phobia–especially since you “used to dress differently”. Why on earth did you try to wear an ill-fitting dress with nylons" when you could have worn a long skirt with elastic waist and one of your “pretty tops”? It’s not necessary to swing whole hog into “glam” in order to be “dressier”, and in a way you were setting yourself up for failure and a more dogged determination to be “comfortable”. . .IMO.
But I think I’ve uncovered what I call the Cromwellian “warts and all” philosophy that started in the 17th century and is seen today as “just plain folks”. “Just plain folks” are honest, truthful, sincere, don’t “care” about “appearance”, and look upon anyone who “does” care about appearance as “uppity snobs”.
Just as their extremity is seen in denial of any occasion whatsoever as being something “to dress for” since “the Lord sees into our hearts and doesn’t judge by appearance”, they project onto anyone who does dress up for any reason the extreme opposite judgment that the person does so “for snobbish reasons, to , is putting him or herself in the Lord’s place” etc.
The reality is, as usual, the middle ground rather than the extremes. But if people are extremist in their view, they feel the middle ground, or any type of “compromise”, would somehow totally invalidate their view. That, of course, makes them uncomfortable. It’s understandable.
I live in VT. Half the year–heck, three quarters of the year, if I wear a dress it’s long, it’s wool, and underneath are not nylons but leggings and leg warmers. Plenty of my neighbors are oldfarmers–just plain folks, living in dungarees and flannel shirts not for comfort so much as for practicality. But strangely enough, even if they’ve been out milking at 4 a.m., that same older farmer (male or female) will come to church not in the dungarees but in a suit (male) or dress or dressy pantsuit (female). It’s the “yuppie” middle aged or younger couples, who’ve bought up property, who come in wearing the L.L. Bean flannels and the designer, “distressed” jeans to Mass, and who I might see an hour later in the day at the bistro in the city wearing suits and dresses. Or the younger teens who slouch in wearing outfits they had probably slept in, and which they’ll wear again for most of the week at school, despite having in their closets plenty of more attractive attire–usually this is a “rebellion” against Mom and Dad, who buy the “nice” clothes, and who must be shown that the offspring are so mature and independent that they’ll dress to please themselves–and incidentally to look just like every other little budding “rebel” in the high school–currently, the look of choice is “gangsta rap” male and Brittny clone or goth female.
Kamz, I sympathize with your problem with “dresses”, but (and I’m no psychologist) I think that you are taking one or two experiences and turning them into an incipient phobia–especially since you “used to dress differently”. Why on earth did you try to wear an ill-fitting dress with nylons" when you could have worn a long skirt with elastic waist and one of your “pretty tops”? It’s not necessary to swing whole hog into “glam” in order to be “dressier”, and in a way you were setting yourself up for failure and a more dogged determination to be “comfortable”. . .IMO.
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Shinobu
Guest
I don’t know this whole thread just makes me feel bad and makes me want to hide under my bed covers instead of getting up Sunday to appear in Church. I feel like I am to be ashamed of and looked down on if I go to Church in my modest clothing, which is my jeans and top. I don’t have money for anything else, I’d gladly wear a dress but I don’t have the money to buy new clothes. I’m trying to find a job, I’ve applied for 3 jobs in the past 2 months and I did not hear anything back. What am I supposed to do? What do you people want from me? I just want to go to Church. I thought people examining me and judging me by my attire ended when I graduated high school.
Just what is it? Are you people only complaining about people dressing immodestly or are you complaining that people are not dressing up for Church? Which is it? State it clearly and precise so there is no feelings of hurt for everyone here. I wanted to go to a Catholic Church nearby here but now I’m too freaking scared to go, afraid I will be turned away when I get there or judged and disliked by the others there.
Just what is it? Are you people only complaining about people dressing immodestly or are you complaining that people are not dressing up for Church? Which is it? State it clearly and precise so there is no feelings of hurt for everyone here. I wanted to go to a Catholic Church nearby here but now I’m too freaking scared to go, afraid I will be turned away when I get there or judged and disliked by the others there.
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fix
Guest
I was responding to post #58. There are two discussions going on. One is how “proper” one should dress for mass and the other is that some tend to dress immodestly, which is in fashion today.
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fix
Guest
It is not all as relativistic as you make it out. Is it so hard for all to agree some things are out of bounds?
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teresas1979
Guest
Hi Shinobi
Please see my earlier post re Jesus not caring what we wear and how that attitude is what makes Our Lord so great. The only people who judge you on what you wear are those who are superficial; it is what is in your heart that counts. The exception is those who dress very promiscuously (sp?) as they are showing their heart to be filled with lewd thoughts (my personal opinion). Don’t let the holier than thou types put you off. They did me and I’m still nearly home once more…
Please see my earlier post re Jesus not caring what we wear and how that attitude is what makes Our Lord so great. The only people who judge you on what you wear are those who are superficial; it is what is in your heart that counts. The exception is those who dress very promiscuously (sp?) as they are showing their heart to be filled with lewd thoughts (my personal opinion). Don’t let the holier than thou types put you off. They did me and I’m still nearly home once more…
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Nota_Bene
Guest
You pay for Internet access?
You maintain a computer?
I sincerely hope that one day you will have the $5.00 necessary to buy a nice dress at a good thrift store – hopefully a Catholic one.
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Nota_Bene
Guest
Back in say 1960, if one walked though almost any Catholic church or Protestant church, everyone would have been dressed rather formally – suits, ties, hats for the women, etc. etc.
The late 1960’s and the 1970’s had a horrible effect on how people dressed for church. At best men still wore sports coats or “leisure suits.” At worst, they wore odd t-shirts, shorts and even more profane wear
If we walk through the same parishes today, *most *Catholics seem to be still dressed in an extremely leisurely and/or downright unacceptable manner while most Protestants have reverted to dressing in a far more formal manner.
Why is this?
The late 1960’s and the 1970’s had a horrible effect on how people dressed for church. At best men still wore sports coats or “leisure suits.” At worst, they wore odd t-shirts, shorts and even more profane wear
If we walk through the same parishes today, *most *Catholics seem to be still dressed in an extremely leisurely and/or downright unacceptable manner while most Protestants have reverted to dressing in a far more formal manner.
Why is this?
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SeekerJen
Guest
Nota Bene:
I volunteer with our parish’s St. Vincent de Paul conference. I have worked with clients who are jobless or on fixed income and literally do not have a dollar left over to spend on extras. The last case I worked was getting clothing for a teenage girl who had recently been reunited with her mother (who is on medical disability). The girl was returned with nothing but the clothes on her back, and the mother was faced with either buying the girl a couple of things to wear for school or paying rent. They didn’t have extra money to even shop the thrift stores, so our conference assumed the cost for clothing from our metro council’s store, as well as some new things that were not available from the thrift store. We also frequently give clients food so that they can free up a little money to keep their homes out of foreclosure or keep the heat on in the winter. $5 is a lot for someone who doesn’t have anything.
Nota Bene, it’s nice that someone gave you a Coach belt. I wish my friends and family were as generous (those things are what, $200?). I certainly can’t afford to spend that kind of money on myself and neither can most people. All this talk about designer wear (and its cost), Nordstrom’s (where many can’t afford to shop except on clearance) and country club attire is off-putting. Church is not an exclusive club for those who can afford the attire.
Shinobu, wear your modest and clean jeans and take comfort in the fact that the Lord knows you are doing your best. Don’t worry about what others think. God bless you and I’ll pray that you find work soon.
Some people use the free internet access at the library. Or a friend’s house. Given Shinobu’s situation, this is likely the case.
I volunteer with our parish’s St. Vincent de Paul conference. I have worked with clients who are jobless or on fixed income and literally do not have a dollar left over to spend on extras. The last case I worked was getting clothing for a teenage girl who had recently been reunited with her mother (who is on medical disability). The girl was returned with nothing but the clothes on her back, and the mother was faced with either buying the girl a couple of things to wear for school or paying rent. They didn’t have extra money to even shop the thrift stores, so our conference assumed the cost for clothing from our metro council’s store, as well as some new things that were not available from the thrift store. We also frequently give clients food so that they can free up a little money to keep their homes out of foreclosure or keep the heat on in the winter. $5 is a lot for someone who doesn’t have anything.
Nota Bene, it’s nice that someone gave you a Coach belt. I wish my friends and family were as generous (those things are what, $200?). I certainly can’t afford to spend that kind of money on myself and neither can most people. All this talk about designer wear (and its cost), Nordstrom’s (where many can’t afford to shop except on clearance) and country club attire is off-putting. Church is not an exclusive club for those who can afford the attire.
Shinobu, wear your modest and clean jeans and take comfort in the fact that the Lord knows you are doing your best. Don’t worry about what others think. God bless you and I’ll pray that you find work soon.
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Shinobu
Guest
I maintain a computer?? I bought this computer years ago—when I had a job. I don’t have my own internet access my Father kindly pays it for me since he knows I am on hard times. Before you judge try asking instead of just assuming.
Edit: Thank you SeekerJen for your kind words, your prayers are much appreciated and i thank you. Your story of that family makes me feel ashamed of myself for getting upset with this thread.
Edit: Thank you SeekerJen for your kind words, your prayers are much appreciated and i thank you. Your story of that family makes me feel ashamed of myself for getting upset with this thread.
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Genesis315
Guest
Nota Bene:
That’s a good question. I was trying to come up with an answer, but I just can’t. Hmmm…
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Nota_Bene
Guest
If you really would like to wear a dress to Mass as your earlier posting suggests perhaps he could loan you $5-10.00 for a dress? It might come in handy when you are looking for a job as well…
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