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GKMotley
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AND with popcorn.
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You didn’t. I was simply expressing my view.Sorry if I gave off the impression I had no respect for confession or any of the Catholic sacraments, that is not true. I still attend Catholic services with complete respect… .including confession.
Sorry you misunderstood.
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annad347
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That’s what I said… we can reject it, refuse it or deny it but once we have it we do not lose it. Even if we do all that, once we repent and return to God we have it again. Its not something we lose, its something we turn our back on.Our salvation is ours to lose by our actions, God does not take it away, we throw it away.
How is what you said different from what I said? Also keep in mind I never said we didn’t have to repent for our sins. I believe in confession.
and to answer your question I was baptized as an infant, did my communion and confirmation all in the Catholic church… but I never went to Catholic school. I never even heard of the C.C.C until I joined this message board. I always thought the book we used was the bible… never even knew it was different from any other bible until I started going to my bible class about a year ago.As a Catholic how is it you don’t know this?
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mcq72
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Not sure a pure Calvinist would say sacraments (2) and other means of grace and edification are done away with with OSAS…If the Catholic Church taught our salvation was guaranteed why would we need the sacraments?
It is interesting that individual salvation is conditional in CC (not guaranteed) , yet Catholic Church inerrancy is not. I call it Once Right Always Right/ ORAR …in matters of faith and moral teaching…guaranteed. unconditional inerrancy, that the CC claims only for itself. Similar rationale as OSAS ?
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Horton
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The Church is the Catholic Church. Protestant churches are not “the Church”.Then I know there are Catholic priest who turned not from the Church but from the Catholic church
Many Protestant churches use the term ordained. Most often an ordained minister or pastor. I’m not sure which Protestant denominations use the term “priest”. A minister or pastor is ordained once a particular church decides it wants that person to be their pastor. (Just a generalization, not a firm rule) Below is a document with a general description of what that type of ordination may look like.. I understand now being ordained is important, so I just honestly didn’t realize no other Christian church would have ordained priest
For the Catholic Church it is different. A man is ordained a priest in the whole Catholic Church, not just a single location. Most of the time a priest will remain within the same diocese his whole career, but not always. Below is a link to the actual Rite of Ordination.
https://sanctamissa.org/en/resource...-holy-orders-rite-of-priestly-ordination.html
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GKMotley
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Anglicans.I’m not sure which Protestant denominations use the term “priest”
Mostly; they’re motley.
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Wannano
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It would be those who believe in the “once saved, always save” concept. Accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior, be baptized and you are saved ones.Hi Horton, I have two requests for you. Could you please inform us which Protestant churches teach salvation is by baptism alone
I really think that you will find that those who believe in OSAS definitely do not teach that salvation is by baptism alone.
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gohjedrek
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OSAS, accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior and repent, you are saved even without the sacrament of baptism.
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mcq72
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perhaps he meant by faith alone
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Horton
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Salvation is not conditional in the Catholic Church. I’m sorry if you are having trouble understanding this. Maybe an open mind to the teaching of true Catholic teaching rather than the myths some Protestants choose to belief may help you.It is interesting that individual salvation is conditional in CC
I guess Papal Infallibility is another difficult concept for you. . You can choose to believe the myths developed by those anti-Catholic Protestants or you can choose to learn the actual teaching of the Church. Learning what the Church truly teaches will not make you a Catholic, it will only make you more informed.yet Catholic Church inerrancy is not. I call it Once Right Always Right/ ORAR …in matters of faith and moral teaching…guaranteed. unconditional inerrancy., that the CC claims only for itself.
HUGE DISCLAIMER - I know not all protestants are anti-Catholic who choose to believe anti-Catholic myths, but we all know there are some who do.
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Horton
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No she meant by baptism. There are some Protestant churches that do what they call a “believer’s baptism” Believe, accept, saved for life" OSAS. Of course there are some who believe baptism isn’t even needed but that isn’t part of the discussion.perhaps he meant by faith alone
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annad347
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If that’s the definition of once saved always saved then that’s different, from what I was was saying. Even Jesus was baptized.OSAS, accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior and repent, you are saved even without the sacrament of baptism.
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ltwin
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There is a misunderstanding here. “Salvation by baptism” would be baptismal regeneration–which is definitely rejected by churches that teach “believer’s baptism” (other than a few exceptions that prove the rule).No she meant by baptism. There are some Protestant churches that do what they call a “believer’s baptism” Believe, accept, saved for life" OSAS.
Believer’s baptism typically accompanies a belief that baptism does not regenerate or forgive one of sins. It is a public profession of faith, an act of obedience and often a requirement before joining the visible congregation. But it does not make one a Christian. Faith in Christ makes one a Christian according to these churches.
The relationship goes something like this–
- Bob hears the gospel preached, is convicted of sin,
- The Holy Spirit gives Bob the gift of faith (justification [the righteousness of Christ] and regeneration [Bob goes from being spiritually dead to spiritually alive]). At this point, Bob is a new creation and born again (the old man is dead) and he is moved to repent of sin.
- Bob professes this publicly to the church
- Bob is baptized according to his profession of faith. Baptism symbolizes his death to sin and rising to new life in Christ.
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GKMotley
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Beat me to it.
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ltwin
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Yeah, someone needed to step in!Beat me to it.
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Horton
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But we can lose it. One night I decide to go out with friends, drink, drive home and hit another car head on. I am killed in the collision. I did not repent. I knew it was a bad idea to go out with those particular friends. I knew when I went with those friends I made bad decisions, I knew driving after drinking was wrong and I could potentially hurt someone. I also was not so intoxicated that I didn’t have the capability of making the right choice. Knowing all of that I chose to do it anyway.but once we have it we do not lose it.
That is a mortal sin and I have separated myself from God’s grace and mercy. God has no blame here, it is all on me. I did something I knew was grave matter for me, I knew the potential consequences of my behavior, and I chose to do it anyway. I made the choice to go to hell.
So yes indeed, once we have it, we certainly may lose it. God will not take it away, but we can turn our backs on it and suffer the consequences of our choices.
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GKMotley
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Name wasn’t Bob, but that was roughly the script for my baptism, in 1953.
- Bob professes this publicly to the church
- Bob is baptized according to his profession of faith.
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ltwin
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Were you Baptist? I figured you might have been a lifelong Anglican.Name wasn’t Bob, but that was roughly the script for my baptism, in 1953.
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GKMotley
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In a sense, I was.
But was a Southern Baptist until I figured that out.
Surprised my parents.
But was a Southern Baptist until I figured that out.
Surprised my parents.
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Wannano
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I think it is appropriate considering this latest discussion to admit both sides are prone to misunderstanding.
For you @Horton to tell @mcq72 " you can choose to believe the myths developed by those anti-Catholic Protestants or you can choose to learn the actual teaching of the Church" is something to consider. LIKEWISE, you also can choose to believe the myths developed by anti-Protestant Catholics or you can chose to learn the actual teaching of the Churches you are referencing.
For you @Horton to tell @mcq72 " you can choose to believe the myths developed by those anti-Catholic Protestants or you can choose to learn the actual teaching of the Church" is something to consider. LIKEWISE, you also can choose to believe the myths developed by anti-Protestant Catholics or you can chose to learn the actual teaching of the Churches you are referencing.
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