Catholic vs Southern Baptist

[Being_Brave]

You know, I got this a lot when I was sojourning with the fundies. Part of it was the objection to “vain repetitions”, but it is also true that I did not know how to pray spontaneously to God. All I ever learned growing up were written prayers. It really did improve the sincerity of my prayer life a lot, but I think there is a place for both.

Fundies:thumbsup:, that’s awesome.

I’d have to agree with you about there being a place for both. I have a mix-n-match method of prayer sometimes, but I think God knows what I’m talking about just the same .

 

[sonny25]

Originally Posted by kristanl
And I have a question for some of the Catholic converts from Baptist. I live in Georgia, so there are many Baptist people. I was wondering if there is a difference between the church services, other than the Pastor preaching for almost the whole hour, and then some prayer? Also, many of the children usually do not go into the service when the preacher is preaching, why is it only for adults?

The children are not in there while the preacher is preaching because they are in childrens church. It makes sense if you look at it like this: Its kind of like sending an elementary student to a university. most small children wouldnt understand what he was preaching so they are sent to childrens church. Not only that when a young child is either playing around or even crying making noises can be distracting to everyone around them. Most of the older children do attend the service. I am Southern Baptist by the way, but everyone in this forum has been very nice to me and I respect them all. God bless and Roll Tide!

 

[KEVIN_WILCOX]

The format of the Catholic Mass is often tailored to the congregation - for children when there are mainly children, for families when there are mainly families, for the oldies when there are mainly elderly. Pre-Vatican 2 the liturgy had only one format - it was as though it attracted a spectator audience rather than a participatory response of people gathered around a table. Vatican 2 promoted more involvement of the laity.

The Baptist Church I attended us children went out after the service (hymns, sermon and prayers) to Sunday School. The hymns were unfamiliar to me and we would be given incentives to attend. After so many weeks a Bible, after so many more weeks a hymn book.

One time I was very sick, literally dying of pneumonia and members of the congregation kept coming round to the house chatting with Dad - I remember them at the foot of the staircase, one minute I was to get a Bible, the next time they visited they apologised for having changed their mind. My emotional state went from excitement to disappointment. None of them came to visit me.

 

[Springkeeper]

One time I was very sick, literally dying of pneumonia and members of the congregation kept coming round to the house chatting with Dad - I remember them at the foot of the staircase, one minute I was to get a Bible, the next time they visited they apologised for having changed their mind. My emotional state went from excitement to disappointment. None of them came to visit me.

How terrible! Yet sadly, in none of the several different Baptist churches I have attended or been a member of, was there any real visitation of the sick (except for a couple of the truly ancient who had been there since the church was started-they were visited). Most of the older members wanted nothing to do with children because “they might get sick” among other complaints.What they really meant was that the only children they had any tolerance for at all were their grandchildren or great-grandchildren. One of my friends, who has 9 unbelievably well behaved childen, was told her children aren’t welcome in the “sanctuary”, they belong in Sunday school only; and that by a man who ran for president on the “family values” ticket!

 

[Springkeeper]

Another Baptist/Catholic difference-
our (Baptist) Sunday school lesson last week stated that our sole responsiblity is to spread the Gospel and that when sinful man is saved he will live his life right and then will get a job and be able to provide food, clothing and shelter for his family. My thought- what if he and his family starve to death first?

 

[Heliotropium]

Basically, Baptists deny any sacraments. They are sola scriptura (only the Bible is the authority on faith matters). They do not accept the teachings of the Catholic Church on saints. Southern Baptists do not generally like people dancing or drinking.

Sacred Tradition is the list of beliefs that we have from the Apostles. These traditions have been passed down through the years. They are supported, some more than others, by scriptures, but they do not need scripture to be true. Many times, they are used to understand Scriptures.

I hope this helps

I would also point out to her that the Bible Canon is one of these Traditions since the Bible does not have the list of what books make up the scriptures. if the Bible cant even give authority to itself then how could it be the sole authority?

 

[KEVIN_WILCOX]

I would also point out to her that the Bible Canon is one of these Traditions since the Bible does not have the list of what books make up the scriptures. if the Bible cant even give authority to itself then how could it be the sole authority?

How can anyone claim the Bible as sole authoritry if there is lack of charity? Both Springkeeper and myself have encountered atrocity. I’d rather people be not too well-versed in Scripture and overflowing with charity. I’d rather people practiced than concerned themselves too much with books.
Jesus is more concerned how we treated one another than if we can quote Scripture at him.

 

[rtconstant]

In the baptist churches I attended, we did not believe that you can do whatever you want once you’re saved. That isn’t what it means. Everyone sins. No matter if they are saved or not. When you get saved, you accept Jesus as your lord and saviour, and you accept him into your heart. This is supposed to change your life. You become a better person. What OSAS means to me is that once I’m saved, if I commit a sin, which I will, I can always say, “God, I know I’ve sinned. I’m sorry for that sin.” And I’ll be forgiven. It basically means that you don’t need to say any special prayers or do any specific works to keep your salvation. God won’t just suddenly say, “know what? you aren’t saved anymore.” It’s not necessarily, “once forgiven, always forgiven.” It’s SAVED. You still need to ask God for forgiveness when you know you’ve sinned. You still have to be sorry for sinning. You still have to know you’ve committed a wrong act. And if you keep doing the same thing over and over, then when you ask God to forgive you, and you apologize for your sins, then you aren’t genuinely sorry, or you’d make an effort to stop. And if you aren’t genuine, then how can you say you’re saved?

I think that every one understands that most baptists don’t walk around with the idea stuck in their head that their actions don’t matter. The reason you hear statements like OSAS means you can “sin all you want”. Is because at a practical level that is the natural conclusion. If one can perform any action but still retain their salvation then essentially one can “sin all the want”. Baptists aren’t stupid however, so usually there are traditional caveats like in the case of particularly sinful person maybe they were never saved at all (like in your example above). The problem is that few people ever really think they hit that line wherein one might really consider they aren’t actually saved. The issue is further compounded by the common idea amongst Baptists that “sin is sin” there are no “big sins and little sins” there is disobedience to God and that covers everything. That concept makes it much harder to decide what amounts of sin can be diagnosed as “to much” to be truly saved. It just ends up as an arbitrary decision.

Now, Baptism. No, we don’t believe in Baptizing babies. We believe that to be saved, and then baptized, you have to accept Jesus into your heart and believe that he is our Lord and Saviour. Babies can’t accept Jesus because they don’t understand. Some baptists believe baptism is necessary to be saved. Some don’t. I don’t. I believe if you are saved in your heart, that’s all that is required Meaning if you’re an elderly person, and you convert and get saved, but say are bedridden, you won’t go to hell just because you can’t be baptized. I believe Baptism is an important part of the process, but that you won’t go to hell for not doing it. It’s really different to each person/congregation. That said, I don’t believe baptism is only symbolic. My church always taught that when you are submerged in the water, you go under as your old self, and when you come out of the water, you are a new person and you have been washed of your sin. You aren’t SYMBOLICALLY a new person, you really are a new person, and that water really did wash you clean of your sin.

This is consistent with what I believed as a Baptist.

Communion: we don’t use alcohol mostly because saved CHILDREN take communion. Most baptists also dont believe in consuming alcohol. I can tell you that we believe that once you consume it, it becomes Jesus’s flesh and blood in your body. I think of communion like the pledge of allegiance, as far as frequency is concerned. To me, when you say the pledge every single day in school or something, it starts to lose its meaning because most people just do it mindlessly as a routine. Same with communion. When you do it every once in a while, and make it a big deal, you can really see how significant it is.

Now you grabbed my attention with this one. You are the first Baptist that I’ve ever known who believed that the elements of bread and wine become the body and blood of Christ. Baptists are usually quite hostile to that concept. In fact it was my coming to this belief myself that became the first road block for me to continue in the Baptist belief system. I was in seminary when I first came to believe in the real presence. This did not gain me fan s from the professors. Of course you may come from a Baptist (SBC) tradition that is perhaps a little more high church. If so please let me know.

As to the frequency I used to believe the same as you and what you state is usually the reason that Baptists are taught for not doing it having it more frequently. However, I personally came to see it in quiet the opposite terms. I’d see children after communion run up and eat the left of bread, and drink the grape juice as snacks, while most of their parents watched without concern. Not saying that you would view in the same way, just saying that lack of frequency doesn’t not instill reverence.

 

[rtconstant]

I had a catholic friend come to a church service with me, and when the preacher told us what verse to turn to, my friend didn’t even know how to look something up in the bible. He had never used one before. That baffled me, because how do you even know what you believe if you’ve never even opened God’s word? I know that probably isn’t typical of most Catholics, but I just wanted to clarify that we use our bibles during the service as well as during bible study.

Those that are raised as Catholic are used to using the missile which is combination of hymnal, prayer book and scripture source. Catholics read along with the Scriptures just like Protestants the scriptures are simple already there and ready to go for Catholics. In this way I supposed Catholics are a little spoiled. Indeed in the Mass there is usually more Scripture reading than there is a typical Baptist Church service.

A lot of baptists dont believe in rock music and such, so mostly we stick to the old hymns. However, that’s changing: when we sing, we are singing to God. We are praising him and glorifying him in song. No matter the type of music. Either way it’s a form or worship.

Yeah this is ultimately an opinion thing. Some Catholic Churches have traditional music, some are more contemporary. I don’t think there is necessarily a “spiritual” consequence one way or the other. I personally don’t like contemporary music as it seems “soulless” to me, but I acknowledge that is totally my opinion.

My preacher went to college. For religious studies. He knows more about the bible than I do. He felt a calling to live his life solely for God. For those reasons he is an authority. But he is governed by God alone, not by officials. And just because he knows more than me, doesn’t mean I don’t have the ability to read scripture for myself and interpret it personally. I can ask him questions, ask for guidance; but I still have the authority to read and interpret for myself, because I also have Jesus in my heart, and he leads me as I read his word.

I would simply caution that there is no private interpretation. The deposit of Faith saves the believer from the confusion of a system where that everyman with a Bible and an opinion is an “authority”.

We believe if you sin, you confess it to God. You apologize to God. And only God can forgive you. I understand Catholics don’t “pray to saints” or “worship saints.” We just don’t feel the need for them. We have a direct line to God. We go directly to God, and he listens. He is omnipresent and all knowing, so a saint has no more access to him than we do.

We do too. We simply ask the Saints to pray for us just as you would ask a friend at your Church to pray for you.

As for asking Deacons/Preachers to step down…this has nothing to do with their salvation. A Deacon, for instance, could have had an affair with a woman other than his wife. And the church finds out. Now, he may have asked for forgiveness and he may be right with God. The church may just no longer want him in a position in the church serving as an example to others. I disagree with this practice. I disagree because baptists believe all sins are equal, and all people sin. So to me, asking someone to step down for sinning is hypocritical. In that case no one should have any position in the church. Also, we don’t practice excommunication or anything similar to it.

Your view is more consistent with your theological beliefs than most.

Altar Call/Invitation: if you’ve listened to the sermon, and you feel moved, or if you’ve been going through something, and you need some support, or you’re ready to accept Christ, you can go to the front when we’re praying quietly to ourselves with our eyes closed so that its semi private, and pray at the altar. Typically someone, maybe the preacher, might join you in prayer and ask if you need for them to pray for you about anything, or talk about anything, or even pray WITH you right there. Then you can sit back down, or you might decide to then publically declare your faith or maybe share a personal testimony.

Yes this is pretty much how we did it as well. Though I did go to a couple of Baptist communities where the Preacher wanted everyone to keep their eyes open. Because they felt that if someone wanted to be saved they shouldn’t be ashamed of it. Others did the eyes closed approach like your community. No real point there just throwing it out as an anecdote.

 

[pipper]

You know, I got this a lot when I was sojourning with the fundies. Part of it was the objection to “vain repetitions”, but it is also true that I did not know how to pray spontaneously to God. All I ever learned growing up were written prayers. It really did improve the sincerity of my prayer life a lot, but I think there is a place for both.

I think there is a difference between private prayer and worship where extemporary prayer is good and welcome.

But for public prayer the written liturgy is vital if for no other reason the people can pray together in the same words. Imagine the bedlam that would ensue if everyone prayed at Mass with their own words!

 

[Springkeeper]

But for public prayer the written liturgy is vital if for no other reason the people can pray together in the same words. Imagine the bedlam that would ensue if everyone prayed at Mass with their own words!

I can- I’ve been to a church where part of the service involved everyone “speaking in tongues”. Complete bedlam and very nerve-racking. Also, at one church the Pastor asked everyone to read their Bibles aloud with him. 6000 people with at least 15 different translations? Yikes! He never did that again.

 

[Heliotropium]

How can anyone claim the Bible as sole authoritry if there is lack of charity? Both Springkeeper and myself have encountered atrocity. I’d rather people be not too well-versed in Scripture and overflowing with charity. I’d rather people practiced than concerned themselves too much with books.
Jesus is more concerned how we treated one another than if we can quote Scripture at him.

Yes I agree that charity is the most important thing since what is the quality of our faith and devotion to God and neighbor if it does not proceed from our love? It would be like serving God a bowl of fruit with flys on it! As for me I would rather people be well formed in the Church, versed in scripture, and have charity! While I agree that Christ is not concerned with how many verse we can quote, I do not agree that we should view the Scriptures as a mere book that should be given little thought or concern about. Would you have known what service you are to give to God and the manner in which it should have been given if not for the Church and the Scriptures?

God bless

 

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[FanOfU2]

I don’t want to judge or generalize, but I am a Southern Baptist and some things stick out to me.

-The first thing is that it seems like there is a lot of dramatics involved amoung SB congregations. People get offended VERY easily, and leave the church VERY easily.

-Number 2, is that it seems like a southern baptist church is focused around the preacher (again not for everyone, this is just my opinion) If a preacher gives good sermons everyones happy.

-My third observation is that it sometimes seems like the Southern Baptist church is all about numbers. Often, very large southern baptist churchs that are in close proximity with each other might be in competition with each other over numbers, growth, quality of programs, etc. (again just my observation with two particular SB churchs)

-In my congregation the prayer meetings seem like gossip sessions, and alot of people in the church seem to be interested in gossip.

In conclusion, I don’t know if any of these points are the same in the RCC, but from my experience the Southern Baptist Church really can be more of a social thing instead of being Christ centered. As a Southern Baptist who has secretly went to 2 masses and is thinking of converting to Catholicism, I already know that I will be shunned, and probably not talked to by several Southern Baptists I know, including my preacher.