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kage_ar
Guest
Yep, one baptism. That is what the good ole Bible teaches us and what His Church teaches.
For post baptismal sins, even becoming an apostate, one simply has to go to Confession.
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For post baptismal sins, even becoming an apostate, one simply has to go to Confession.
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Hiskid1973
Guest
Do you guys have a baptism after someone has a born anew experience…Isn’t there conversion experiences in your church.?You don’t just come to church and turn into a believer. When do the people repent? Like in the NT someone heard the gospel message repented/turned to Christ and was bapised…That is what happen to me…
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kage_ar
Guest
The people in the NT had never BEEN baptized before. They spent a couple of years in the process of preparation and were then baptized - the whole household many times.
A person can be baptized validly only one time in life. After that, when they commit a serious sin they repent and go to the Sacrament of Confession.
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Hiskid1973
Guest
Where did you come up with that? Bolded
So let me understand this…They are baptized as babies and don’t have to express any repentance the rest of thier life…They are automatically are a christian the rest of they live no matter if reject or ignore God say as a teen…You system really confuses me from what I read in the scriptures…My one daughter was around seven when she understood she had to repent and turn her life to the Lord…Here’s my quick story I was 21 , not a church goer…I had a cute blonde give me this booklet that told me about Jesus and His plan of salvation using scripture verses…I prayed and gave Jesus my messed up life and if was like night and day…Like a weight was off my shoulders…I just wept with joy…It was a radical experience…I started reading the bible and got baptised a year later…I was amazed at what happen to me happened all over the NT…That was almost 40 years ago and I am still overwhelmed at God’s faithfulness and work in my life…My coworker druggie friend had the same experience the same year…Our coworkers in the office couldn’t understand what happened to us…We started telling them about Jesus and His salvation…Not all recieved us well…
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kage_ar
Guest
The process of catechising converts is well documented, read the Early Church Fathers. It is historical fact.
One is a Christian after the only valid baptism, at age 0 or 100.
When a baptized Christian commits a sin and if they die unrepentant, they go to hell for all eternity.
If the person repents, the go to Confession the sins are absolved.
The Church believes that children around age 7 do reach the age of reason and can commit personal sin, that is they age they will make their first Confession.
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jmcrae
Guest
The Sacrament of Reconciliation, in which you tell your sins to the priest and he gives you the words of forgiveness, is for the forgiveness of all post-Baptismal sins - that is to say, all sins committed after Baptism. Your hypothetical teenager would go to Confession when she repented of her wicked ways; she would not be re-baptized.
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CB_Catholic
Guest
Here’s what I would like to know: the OP stated that they were baptized by “sprinkling”. Catholics do not sprinkle to baptize. They pour or immerse. So would the Baptism even be valid in the eyes of the Church in the first place, since the proper form was not used?
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Br.Rich_SFO
Guest
Yes, when Baptized even as an infant your soul is marked eternally as belonging to Christ from that moment on. I would hope no one shows up at their judgment, who turned away from Christ, with that mark.
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Br.Rich_SFO
Guest
To be “Born again or anew” is Baptism. Conversion is an ongoing process in the life of a Christian, not a one time event! People who have been Baptized, “Repent” of their sins in the Sacrament of Reconciliation. For someome like the NT example, today it’s called RCIA. (Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults)
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Br.Rich_SFO
Guest
The Catholic Church accepted all three forms of Baptism until the new Code of Canon Law. Sprinkling could still be used in say an emergency for a large number of people, but it is not certain. Today anyone who was Baptized by Sprinkling whould have a questionable Baptism and the Church has a process to remedy that.
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manualman
Guest
Hiskid,
I hear your confusion and sympathize. It sounds very foreign when your only cultural reference is protestant. I spent 4 years in college hanging around the Navigators, so I speak the language a little and see where the disconnects occur.
i suspect you subscribe to the idea that conversion is a single event, one moment in which the awfulness of your sin becomes crystal clear and the reality of Christ as Savior becomes joyfully welcome. Accepting Christ is perceived as a fixed point in time and the idea of “once save, always saved” kicks in (also known as “assurance of salvation”).
The fatal flaw in that theology is that you still wind up sinning, right? I sure have! How come? Why hasn’t the Holy Spirit fixed me yet? Little doubts creep in. Did I really accept Jesus? Am I really saved? Was I only fooling myself?
The reality of life suggests this theology is wrong. Believers still sin. We STILL need to repent. Baptism isn’t the finish line, it is the starting gun! It marks our rebirth into a life of Grace in which Christ has marked us as his own, but we still need to learn to choose him over our selfishness and inclination to sin. We’re redeemed, we’re forgiven, but we aren’t done yet. As St. Paul said, we need to endure to the end. When we sin and repent, Jesus gave us yet another sacrament (physical manifestation of Grace) that catholics call “Confession” (aka Reconciliation). Jesus specifically gave his apostles the authority to forgive sins in his name. Catholic priests today still posses that gift and speak with Jesus’ own voice when they say “I absolve you of your sins in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.” As catholics, we have the priviledge of having the grace of this forgiveness available to us in a way we can hear and feel in the sacrament.
Isn’t Jesus great? How awesome that we aren’t left in silence with just a book to figure it all out.
I hear your confusion and sympathize. It sounds very foreign when your only cultural reference is protestant. I spent 4 years in college hanging around the Navigators, so I speak the language a little and see where the disconnects occur.
i suspect you subscribe to the idea that conversion is a single event, one moment in which the awfulness of your sin becomes crystal clear and the reality of Christ as Savior becomes joyfully welcome. Accepting Christ is perceived as a fixed point in time and the idea of “once save, always saved” kicks in (also known as “assurance of salvation”).
The fatal flaw in that theology is that you still wind up sinning, right? I sure have! How come? Why hasn’t the Holy Spirit fixed me yet? Little doubts creep in. Did I really accept Jesus? Am I really saved? Was I only fooling myself?
The reality of life suggests this theology is wrong. Believers still sin. We STILL need to repent. Baptism isn’t the finish line, it is the starting gun! It marks our rebirth into a life of Grace in which Christ has marked us as his own, but we still need to learn to choose him over our selfishness and inclination to sin. We’re redeemed, we’re forgiven, but we aren’t done yet. As St. Paul said, we need to endure to the end. When we sin and repent, Jesus gave us yet another sacrament (physical manifestation of Grace) that catholics call “Confession” (aka Reconciliation). Jesus specifically gave his apostles the authority to forgive sins in his name. Catholic priests today still posses that gift and speak with Jesus’ own voice when they say “I absolve you of your sins in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.” As catholics, we have the priviledge of having the grace of this forgiveness available to us in a way we can hear and feel in the sacrament.
Isn’t Jesus great? How awesome that we aren’t left in silence with just a book to figure it all out.
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Hiskid1973
Guest
I guess I’m more confused by I hear alot that I don’t see practiced in the sacred scriptures…He are justified by faith…I see conversions express in the NT…They repented and baptised…Peter had a sermon , 3000 entered the church that day…Not waiting, no program or process…I’m willing to bet they werent all water baptized before the day was out…But they were added to the church…Sin, were all capable after our conversion…Paul said he was the chief of sinners…But like John says, we ask for forgiveness He is faith and just to forgive and cleanse us from all unrighteousness…I,ve done it many time an felt the conviction of the Holy Spirit and also felt the joy and peace return after i pour out my heart before him in repentance…No special time or place…As for the scriptures, my pastor is encellent with bringing the greek in are really geting the jist of what’s going on…Like Jeus asking Peter if He (agapO) Him, Peter replies yes Lord I( phileO) You…Same Love but Peter didn’t understand…One day all believers will stand before the Lord with the works did whether good or not…They will burn some will be left with gold others with ash but they all will be in heaven…While living Paul spoke of His fellow laborers name written in the Book of life…My conversion experience put mine there…I am trusting the Lord that He will complete the work that He started in me…Where did I get all this, from all the letters written by the apostles He called…They circulated for years copied over and over and eventually put in a book…The word was always there from the begining writing which were used to teach all the believer that came along…Many died because of it…The word was never withheld from the belivers…We can still read all that was penned by the original apostles… I thank God for His word, It is a lamp to my feet and a light to my path…I hide it in my heart to keep me from sin…The Holy Spirit uses that same word to change me from glory to glory as He matures me…Just a few verses from Jesus that was long ago spoken was all the Holy Spirit needed to open my eyes to the gospel nearly 40 years ago…I have experienced incredible answers to prayer and had some incredible times of HIs presence…He said He would never leave or forsake me…Daily he keeps that promise to me…I am a temple for His Holy Spirit…I am continually filled with praise to Him…
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manualman
Guest
To be clear, I hope I don’t give the impression that I doubt the reality of your faith or the fact that God blesses faith when it is embraced in the fullest way the believer knows how. I’ve seen and known too many evangelical communities of believers for me to be smug like that. And yet you can hardly deny what the Holy Spirit has accomplished in the great saints of catholic history either. So the blessing of the Holy Spirit cannot be used as a litmus test of which church is the one Jesus prayed for us all to be unified within!
You just seem to be intrigued by what you think are the weird beliefs of catholics and you seem to be interested in where they came from. Hopefully, I’m doing at least a little of that. The major issue that most protestants don’t recognize is that their beliefs are based on an attempt to reconstruct “real christianity” from a book 1,500 years removed from its authorship, but with no respect at all for how the believers that came before them understood that book - even believers who were taught at the feet of the apostles themselves!
The Scriptures are the only writings that we have assurance are truly divinely revealed. But there are thousands of writings of great saints of the early church that shine a spotlight on how THEY understood the scriptures and interpreted them. All this rich information was thrown out with the bathwater when the “reformers” recreated christianity 1,500 years later from Scripture alone. Wouldn’t it be important to see how those Early Fathers understood Scripture? Wouldn’t they have a better opportunity to understand the greek originals and culture of the time than your modern, well educated pastor? If you are curious, check out “Faith of the Early Fathers” by Jurgens.
You just seem to be intrigued by what you think are the weird beliefs of catholics and you seem to be interested in where they came from. Hopefully, I’m doing at least a little of that. The major issue that most protestants don’t recognize is that their beliefs are based on an attempt to reconstruct “real christianity” from a book 1,500 years removed from its authorship, but with no respect at all for how the believers that came before them understood that book - even believers who were taught at the feet of the apostles themselves!
The Scriptures are the only writings that we have assurance are truly divinely revealed. But there are thousands of writings of great saints of the early church that shine a spotlight on how THEY understood the scriptures and interpreted them. All this rich information was thrown out with the bathwater when the “reformers” recreated christianity 1,500 years later from Scripture alone. Wouldn’t it be important to see how those Early Fathers understood Scripture? Wouldn’t they have a better opportunity to understand the greek originals and culture of the time than your modern, well educated pastor? If you are curious, check out “Faith of the Early Fathers” by Jurgens.
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Hiskid1973
Guest
manualman;5938637 said:
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kage_ar
Guest
Hiskid -
Here are someplaces where you can LISTEN to talks about the Catholic Church and learn what she teaches about sin and baptism and other things.
americancatholictruthsociety.com/articles/sheen.htm
bringyou.to/apologetics/audio.htm
Here are someplaces where you can LISTEN to talks about the Catholic Church and learn what she teaches about sin and baptism and other things.
americancatholictruthsociety.com/articles/sheen.htm
bringyou.to/apologetics/audio.htm
J
jesuspsr
Guest
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