Catholic woman ordained in Lutheran Church

[Porknpie]

On the contrary, the insinuation had nothing to do with someone’s sexuality since that would be totally inappropriate. And pertaining to this article, the only connection between sexuality and a woman becoming a Catholic priest is gender. The desire of some Catholic women to enter the priesthood is well known and likely been a topic for discussion on this forum.

Unrelated to this topic, CopticChristian inserted ‘homosexuality’ in post #14 “What’s revealing” is merely an observation that many of CopticChristian’s posts seem to deal with homosexuality. No offense meant to CopticChristian.

EC-

Hopefully what you understand is revealing about Coptic’s posts on homosexuality is that he cares for his fellow man & women and desires that they come to the Truth and be saved.

 

[CopticChristian]

This is an article that was in the blog Get Religion written by LC-MS Lutheran Mollie Z. Hemingway:

The editor will be announced in an LA Daily News board meeting. The printing press, symbolizing publishing, will be made out of lollipops. The staff will agree to follow the direction of “our editor and blackjack dealer.”
But the real departure from Los Angeles Times tradition will be evident when Maria Eitz approaches the computer to write her first story.
Does any of that make sense to you? How about this lede to a story that ran in the Los Angeles Times this week?
SAN FRANCISCO — The priest will be ordained in a purple Lutheran church. The Communion bread, symbolizing the body of Christ, will be gluten-free. The congregation will pray to “our mother our father in heaven.”
But the real departure from Roman Catholic tradition will be evident when Maria Eitz approaches the altar Sunday for the laying on of hands that turns parishioner into priest.
So, according to the logic here, you can deny transubstantiation, get ordained in, literally, a Lutheran church (no, not my kind!), and get all gender-weird about God the Father and that’s totally cool and not even a “real” departure from Roman Catholic “tradition?” In what world? Why is Roman Catholic even mentioned here? Seriously?
Also, these aren’t items of tradition, but doctrine. Someone who doesn’t understand the difference between Christian doctrine and Christian tradition has no business writing a story on non-Catholics getting ordained in non-Catholic ceremonies. Period. When editors and reporters are so unfamiliar with Christian doctrine — and tradition — that they produce stories such as this, we all lose.
These stories have been so bad for so long that I’m beginning to wonder if journalists didn’t, like, sign a pact with some agent of journalism darkness to see how much idiocy could be spread under one story topic. It’s just that bad.
Take the headline:
Women becoming priests without Vatican’s blessing
Small numbers of Catholic women are ignoring the ban on female priests and are ordained without the church’s acknowledgment.
The Roman Catholic church is an organization that sets it’s own rules. This headline makes no more sense than saying:
Auto mechanics becoming professors without UCLA’s blessing
Small numbers of auto mechanics are ignoring the rules on who becomes professors and are given tenure without UCLA’s acknowledgement
or
Golfers becoming infielders without Yankees blessing
Small numbers of golfers are ignoring MLB rules and are being named infielders without the Yankees’ acknowledgment
I’m sure you could do better than me at this game.
The story is riddled with errors and weirdness.

We’re told, for instance, that “more than 120 women worldwide … have been ordained as Roman Catholic priests and deacons” and then a line later that those ordinations weren’t valid according to church law.
It has all the trademark puffiness of every single other Womenpriests story you’ve ever read. After acting like the women we’re reading about are really good Roman Catholics, though, we learn:
The congregation’s core beliefs are another story too. Rue and Eitz support abortion rights, contraception, married priests and same-sex marriage. Rue is a married lesbian who has been out since 1973.
We learn that the sacrament isn’t administered by the priests so much as the congregation. I’ll just quote the last three paragraphs for your enjoyment about these faithful Catholic women who are held up only by the misogynistic leadership of Rome:
What calms her mind? Hafiz, a Sufi poet from the 14th century, and Mary Oliver, whose poems weave the natural and spiritual worlds.
With fog blanketing her Inner Richmond neighborhood and her cocker spaniel sleeping at her feet, Eitz opens a collection of Hafiz’s work. She has marked her favorite poems with feathers. She begins to read out loud.
“I / Have / Learned / So much from God / That I can no longer / Call / Myself / A Christian, a Hindu, a Muslim / A Buddhist, a Jew,” she read, beginning to relax. “The Truth has shared so / much of itself / With me / That I can no longer call myself / A man, a woman, an angel / Or even pure / Soul.”
Yeah, man! Was that poem published by the Vatican? Because it sure sounds about as Roman Catholic as anything else I’ve ever heard, you know?
Sigh.
If someone can no longer call herself a Christian and her ordination takes place in a purple (why was that an important detail?) Lutheran church and she deviates from Christian teaching on most major points, one might wonder why there is any media coverage for her schismatic group, but one definitely wonders why the story was framed as it was to begin with.

Excellent information that would cause you to wonder about the OP…

A Lutheran by monikor…

**Catholic woman ordained in Lutheran Church **

**Interesting articles of a group of Roman Catholic women being ordained priests. In this case the ordaination will be in San Francisco. It is no surprise that the ordination today is to occur at the notorious Ebenezer Lutheran Church.

Any thoughts? **

There have been lots of thoughts…

 

[EvangelCatholic]

The Church in a vastly evolving reality. Supreme court’s decision upcoming. Many Catholics live in states that being Catholic is why its Democrat. Women are welcome participates in Christ. Why suppress a gift?

Quick story: My own Catholic cousins were discouraged from taking communion at my father’s funeral unless they spoke to the pastor ahead of time. Everybody other than LCMS had to announce intent to commune and unless immediate family . Putting a barrier to Christ. Big insult since entire family/friends previously communed at Catholic relatives mass.

There is an entirely different interaction of Catholics, Lutherans, Anglicans than some realize on this forum. How about we consider that?

 

[EvangelCatholic]

PS

I & many others have voiced concerns to the ELCA synod bishop re: Ebenezer. Our sisters have causes we support. Embrace the blessed Mother’s example rather finite differences, bizarre expression. Any Catholic ex-nuns ordered / ordained priests in Anglican, Lutheran parishes?.

 

[Porknpie]

The Church in a vastly evolving reality.

EC,

Only those communities that have broken away from the Church established by Christ have vastly evolving realities. This is true and we can look at 42,000 denominations to get a sense of that reality. Christ said the Holy Spirit would lead his Church to all Truth. One can confirm to this Church and Truth or follow and drift to ones personal preferences.

 

[PRmerger]

The Church in a vastly evolving reality. Supreme court’s decision upcoming. Many Catholics live in states that being Catholic is why its Democrat. Women are welcome participates in Christ. Why suppress a gift?

What gift is being suppressed?

 

[PRmerger]

Quick story: My own Catholic cousins were discouraged from taking communion at my father’s funeral unless they spoke to the pastor ahead of time. Everybody other than LCMS had to announce intent to commune and unless immediate family . Putting a barrier to Christ. Big insult since entire family/friends previously communed at Catholic relatives mass.

I don’t think you’re really opposed to “barriers”, otherwise you would let everyone–atheists, Muslims, JWs–take communion.

You just put the “barrier” up in a different place than Catholics do.

So why do Lutherans get to put up “barriers” but Catholics can’t?

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

I am a Lutheran. Lutherans are Catholics.

Lutherans are not Catholics for many reasons. First and foremost, one can’t just walk away from the Church, reject the sacraments, and call themselves Catholics. Secondly, Luther was not a bishop, thus there is no Apostolic Authority/Tradition in the Lutheran Church, as there is in, say, the SSPX.

I firmly believe that the Church of Rome will eventually ordain women priests.

Naturally, a Lutheran will view this issue from a Lutheran mindset. Many Christian sects “evolve with the times.” The Catholic Church does not do so on issues relating to faith and morals.

When it comes to female ordination, the Catholic Church does not have the authority to ordain woman. Therefore, woman cannot be ordained even if the Church decided it might be a good idea. What it will take for woman to be ordained is for Christ Himself to give the Church that authority.

 

[PRmerger]

I am a Lutheran. Lutherans are Catholics.

Lutherans are not Catholics for many reasons.

Evangel’s claim calls to mind a quote from St. Augustine:

“And so, lastly, does the very name of Catholic, which, not without reason, amid so many heresies, the Church has thus retained; so that, though all heretics wish to be called Catholics, yet when a stranger asks where the Catholic Church meets, no heretic will venture to point to his own chapel or house."

IOW: Everyone wants to be called Catholic, yet, in reality, he knows that when someone refers to the Catholic Church it’s not his church that is being referred to.

NB: Reference to the word “heretic” in St. Augustine’s quote is applied to no one on this thread personally.

 

[EvangelCatholic]

This is where Lutherans apply evangelism. Minister to those in need of Church the most… Pope Francis seems to agree: catholicherald.co.uk/news/2013/05/22/pope-francis-warns-of-the-dangers-of-unbridled-capitalism/

 

[PRmerger]

This is where Lutherans apply evangelism. Minister to those in need of Church the most… Pope Francis seems to agree: catholicherald.co.uk/news/2013/05/22/pope-francis-warns-of-the-dangers-of-unbridled-capitalism/

Amen!

 

[CopticChristian]

The Church in a vastly evolving reality. Supreme court’s decision upcoming. Many Catholics live in states that being Catholic is why its Democrat. Women are welcome participates in Christ. Why suppress a gift?

It is difficult to understand what it is you mean by “The Church”. The Supreme Court and Democracy have little to do with Church teaching so far as causing change. Women are always welcome participants in the Church. No gifts are suppressed.

You are for voicing an opinion that Women should be deacons, priests and the OHCAC should change to accomodate that view.

You have voiced opinions suggesting you believe Homosexuals are born that way, suggesting you have swallowed the pill of the secular world=Essentialism.

You have voiced an opinion that you approve of Same Sex Marriage.

You are in the world and the Church is in the world but not of the world. What you experience and believe is contrary to Church teaching.

Quick story: My own Catholic cousins were discouraged from taking communion at my father’s funeral unless they spoke to the pastor ahead of time. Everybody other than LCMS had to announce intent to commune and unless immediate family . Putting a barrier to Christ. Big insult since entire family/friends previously communed at Catholic relatives mass.

Your Catholic cousins were properly Catechized. What your particular LCMS community does is relevant to them. There is no barrier to Christ. Barriers are imposed by disobedience. People exclude themselves by their own actions and it is an insult to suggest otherwise.

There is an entirely different interaction of Catholics, Lutherans, Anglicans than some realize on this forum. How about we consider that?

Interactions do not equate to truth. Many suggest that they are Anglican and we see Anglican Homosexuals. Many say they are Catholic and they are Catholic supporting the APA and same sex marriage. You can draw no conclusion from your perception of this forum. You can read the Catechism and draw conclusions from that.

Have you read the Catholic Catechism cover to cover? If you want to have a discussion then it should be what is in there so as to be accurate in your understanding.

 

[CopticChristian]

PS

I & many others have voiced concerns to the ELCA synod bishop re: Ebenezer. Our sisters have causes we support. Embrace the blessed Mother’s example rather finite differences, bizarre expression. Any Catholic ex-nuns ordered / ordained priests in Anglican, Lutheran parishes?.

Every Catholic on this forum. Every Catholic in the world. Should all of these unite and voice an opinion to Rome and say…on Monday…

“we have concerns, we support change, women should be priests, same sex marriage should be allowed, homosexuals are born that way and should be invited into the Chruch with their partner”

Tuesday, we would hear, thank you for your concern, thank you for your support…it is with sadness we must tell you that these things cannot and will not change. Read and study your Catechism and pray for a transformation of mind.

 

[CopticChristian]

This is where Lutherans apply evangelism. Minister to those in need of Church the most… Pope Francis seems to agree: catholicherald.co.uk/news/2013/05/22/pope-francis-warns-of-the-dangers-of-unbridled-capitalism/

As a Lutheran, coming to CAF, suggesting that women should be priests, believing and approving of same sex marriage, accepting the notion that homosexuals are born that way and if living in a gay lifestyle should be accepted in the Church, how is it you are applyingt Evangelism on this thread? Are you evangelizing for change?

 

[JonNC]

The Church in a vastly evolving reality. Supreme court’s decision upcoming. Many Catholics live in states that being Catholic is why its Democrat. Women are welcome participates in Christ. Why suppress a gift?

Quick story: My own Catholic cousins were discouraged from taking communion at my father’s funeral unless they spoke to the pastor ahead of time. Everybody other than LCMS had to announce intent to commune and unless immediate family . Putting a barrier to Christ. Big insult since entire family/friends previously communed at Catholic relatives mass.

There is an entirely different interaction of Catholics, Lutherans, Anglicans than some realize on this forum. How about we consider that?

Your Catholic cousins should have needed no “discouragement” from an LCMS pastor regarding reception at a parish not in communion with the Bishop of Rome. They should have been well catechized in their own faith which does not permit it. It seems to me that, out of respect for their own communion’s stated practice, they would have chosen not to approach to receive.

It comes down to good manners. When I go to a Catholic mass, I do not approach to receive because the Catholic Church asks me not to.

Nothing would please me more than to see Lutherans and Catholics be able to come to the Lord’s Supper together, at one altar, either altar. But until unity, we must respect the wishes of a host parish as guests. ISTM that doing otherwise does a disservice to the prospects of unity, and undermines true ecumenical dialogue.

I might add that this puts no barrier to Christ, as Catholics can and do receive His true body and blood at a Catholic mass, just as we do at ours.
Jon

 

[Porknpie]

As a Lutheran, coming to CAF, suggesting that women should be priests, believing and approving of same sex marriage, accepting the notion that homosexuals are born that way and if living in a gay lifestyle should be accepted in the Church, how is it you are applyingt Evangelism on this thread? Are you evangelizing for change?

Coptic, some are led to believe that the Church is a democratic form of government, that faith and morals can be voted upon and changed. Interesting quote from Hilary of Poitiers that seems just as true today.

“The Church, ordained by the Lord and established by His Apostles, is one for all; but the frantic folly of discordant sects has severed them from her. And it is obvious that these dissensions concerning the faith result from a distorted mind, which twists the words of Scripture into conformity with its opinion, instead of adjusting that opinion to the words of Scripture. And thus, amid the clash of mutually destructive errors, the Church stands revealed not only by her own teaching, but by that of her rivals. They are ranged, all of them, against her; and the very fact that she stands single and alone is her sufficient answer to their godless delusions. The hosts of heresy assemble themselves against her; each of them can defeat all the others, but not one can win a victory for itself. The only victory is the triumph which the Church celebrates over them all.” Hilary of Poitiers, On the Trinity, 7:4 (A.D. 359).

 

[EvangelCatholic]

Here’s the bishop involved at Trinity Lutheran church in Ohio last week: communityofstbridget.org/

"Bishop William Manseau, SBM, MA, D.Min., D.Min
Bishop at Large, St. Barnabas Mission

William Joseph Manseau was ordained as a Sts. Peter and Paul Catholic Prelature bishop in the Roman Catholic Church on June 11, 2011 in the St. Barnabas Chapel at the Cathedral of St. Anthony in Detroit, MI for service in the International Society of the Apostles, Sts. Peter, Thomas and Mary Magdalene and its Vicariate of the Good Shepherd, the St. Barnabas Mission and the Ecumenical Catholic Diocese of America.

He is a married Priest of the Archdiocese of Boston, ordained in 1961 by Richard Cardinal Cushing and married in 1969, who has served as President and New England Regional Vice President for the Society of Priests for a Free Ministry; and as President, Chairperson and Representative/Director at Large for the Federation of Christian Ministries, a position he holds currently. He has served as Chair of the FCM Committee on Specialized Ministries and its Religious Endorsing Body agent. He is Co-Chair of the FCM Roman Catholic Faith Community Council. He is Chair of the FCM Committee for Commissioning. He represents the FCM/RCFCC in the National Catholic Ministries Alliance. He serves on the Executive Board of the International Federation for a Renewed Catholic Ministry. He is Dean of the Global Ministries University M. Div. Program. He also has served as CORPUS Treasurer and President and is Chair of CORPUS New England.

A State of New Hampshire Licensed Pastoral Psychotherapist, he founded in 1981 and directs the Emmaus Institute, Inc. and Emmaus Institute Counseling Services which is currently based in Nashua, NH. He directs the Emmaus Institute’s National Resigned Priests’ Pensions Advocacy Program on behalf of CORPUS. He is a past President of the Nashua Area Interfaith Council and the N.H. Citizens United for the Rehabilitation of Errants. He has served on the Board of Directors for the National Alliance on Mental Illness for NH.

He is a Fellow in the American Association of Pastoral Counselors and has served as Northeast Region Chair of Legal and Legislative Concerns and currently chairs its Institutional Accreditation Committee. He served as the President of the Massachusetts Association of Pastoral Counselors and led that association’s unsuccessful efforts to obtain state licensure for pastoral counselors. He is the President of the New Hampshire Pastoral Psychotherapists Association and has served as its Treasurer.

William Manseau is the President of the International Society of the Apostles, Sts. Peter, Thomas and Mary Magdalene and Vicar Apostolic of the International Catholic Apostolic Vicariate of the Good Shepherd. He is Vicar Apostolic and Secretary for the St. Barnabas Mission of the Ecumenical Catholic Diocese of America and is the author of the proposal for an Emmaus Catholic Covenanting Communities network. As a worker priest from 1969 to 1984 he worked with local, regional and national community based substance abuse, mental health and comprehensive primary care related organizations in mid-size and major urban settings. He holds an MA and an M.Div. equivalent from St. John Seminary, Brighton, MA (1961) and doctorates in social and personal transformational ministry from Chicago Theological Seminary (1974) and Andover Newton Theological School (1989). He and his wife, Mary, reside in Tewksbury, MA and are the parents of three adult children and two granddaughters. Their son, Peter, is the author of Vows, the Story of a Priest, a Nun and Their Son, 2005, Free Press. Email: wmanseau@emmausinstituteinc.org"

No comment

 

[Imcatholic7]

Many Christians are led in worship by women including Roman Catholic parishes that can not provide a priest regularly. Many of those parishes are administered by nuns including the distribution of the sacrament.

HINT distribution of the Sacrament. They do NOT consecrate but only distribute. Many parishes have laity who distribute the Sacrament.

 

[CopticChristian]

Here’s the bishop involved at Trinity Lutheran church in Ohio last week: communityofstbridget.org/

"Bishop William Manseau, SBM, MA, D.Min., D.Min
Bishop at Large, St. Barnabas Mission

William Joseph Manseau was ordained as a Sts. Peter and Paul Catholic Prelature bishop in the Roman Catholic Church on June 11, 2011 in the St. Barnabas Chapel at the Cathedral of St. Anthony in Detroit, MI for service in the International Society of the Apostles, Sts. Peter, Thomas and Mary Magdalene and its Vicariate of the Good Shepherd, the St. Barnabas Mission and the Ecumenical Catholic Diocese of America.

He is a married Priest of the Archdiocese of Boston, ordained in 1961 by Richard Cardinal Cushing and married in 1969, who has served as President and New England Regional Vice President for the Society of Priests for a Free Ministry; and as President, Chairperson and Representative/Director at Large for the Federation of Christian Ministries, a position he holds currently. He has served as Chair of the FCM Committee on Specialized Ministries and its Religious Endorsing Body agent. He is Co-Chair of the FCM Roman Catholic Faith Community Council. He is Chair of the FCM Committee for Commissioning. He represents the FCM/RCFCC in the National Catholic Ministries Alliance. He serves on the Executive Board of the International Federation for a Renewed Catholic Ministry. He is Dean of the Global Ministries University M. Div. Program. He also has served as CORPUS Treasurer and President and is Chair of CORPUS New England.

A State of New Hampshire Licensed Pastoral Psychotherapist, he founded in 1981 and directs the Emmaus Institute, Inc. and Emmaus Institute Counseling Services which is currently based in Nashua, NH. He directs the Emmaus Institute’s National Resigned Priests’ Pensions Advocacy Program on behalf of CORPUS. He is a past President of the Nashua Area Interfaith Council and the N.H. Citizens United for the Rehabilitation of Errants. He has served on the Board of Directors for the National Alliance on Mental Illness for NH.

He is a Fellow in the American Association of Pastoral Counselors and has served as Northeast Region Chair of Legal and Legislative Concerns and currently chairs its Institutional Accreditation Committee. He served as the President of the Massachusetts Association of Pastoral Counselors and led that association’s unsuccessful efforts to obtain state licensure for pastoral counselors. He is the President of the New Hampshire Pastoral Psychotherapists Association and has served as its Treasurer.

William Manseau is the President of the International Society of the Apostles, Sts. Peter, Thomas and Mary Magdalene and Vicar Apostolic of the International Catholic Apostolic Vicariate of the Good Shepherd. He is Vicar Apostolic and Secretary for the St. Barnabas Mission of the Ecumenical Catholic Diocese of America and is the author of the proposal for an Emmaus Catholic Covenanting Communities network. As a worker priest from 1969 to 1984 he worked with local, regional and national community based substance abuse, mental health and comprehensive primary care related organizations in mid-size and major urban settings. He holds an MA and an M.Div. equivalent from St. John Seminary, Brighton, MA (1961) and doctorates in social and personal transformational ministry from Chicago Theological Seminary (1974) and Andover Newton Theological School (1989). He and his wife, Mary, reside in Tewksbury, MA and are the parents of three adult children and two granddaughters. Their son, Peter, is the author of Vows, the Story of a Priest, a Nun and Their Son, 2005, Free Press. Email: wmanseau@emmausinstituteinc.org"

**No comment **

Comment…

I now see a potential source for your problems in approaching this forum…

Richard Rohr’s Daily Meditation
Subscribe to receive Richard’s Daily Meditation by e-mail HERE
5/27/13 - Liminal Space
What some call “liminal space” or threshold space
is a very good phrase for those special times…

scrolling down to the bottom of the page, we see…

aside from the articles on Women in the Church, disciples of Richard Rohr are well known to this forum…

Richard Rohr is a place where homosexuals find a haven and then come to this forum believing that the Church should change all manner of beliefs…Richard Rohr is a dissident and does not represent the OHCAC…

These disciples soon launch into dialogue about…“Dualism”, preaching, attempting to teach this nonsense…

I am all too familiar with these disciples…

 

[benjohnson]

As a Lutheran, coming to CAF, suggesting that women should be priests, believing and approving of same sex marriage, accepting the notion that homosexuals are born that way and if living in a gay lifestyle should be accepted in the Church, how is it you are applyingt Evangelism on this thread? Are you evangelizing for change?

I would remind our Lutheran friend of the Lutheran admonishment (paraphrased) - “Never what the world demands, but what the Scriptures teach.”

Within Scripture, we can find a joy and gratitude for womanhood, a true pastoral love for those who are sinning, and a vigorous evangelism to bring people to Christ.