Catholic woman ordained in Lutheran Church

[Imcatholic7]

I would remind our Lutheran friend of the Lutheran admonishment (paraphrased) - “Never what the world demands, but what the Scriptures teach.”

Within Scripture, we can find a joy and gratitude for womanhood, a true pastoral love for those who are sinning, and a vigorous evangelism to bring people to Christ.

What about the multiple places in Scripture that are against homosexual relations?

 

[JonNC]

I would remind our Lutheran friend of the Lutheran admonishment (paraphrased) - “Never what the world demands, but what the Scriptures teach.”

Within Scripture, we can find a joy and gratitude for womanhood, a true pastoral love for those who are sinning, and a vigorous evangelism to bring people to Christ.

Well said, Ben.

I have often expressed my love and admiration for those confessional Lutherans who remain steadfast in the faith, while trying to right the ELCA ship. Sadly, their current leadership seems, by their actions, far more concerned about what the world demands.

Jon

 

[JonNC]

What about the multiple places in Scripture that are against homosexual relations?

They are God’s word. But this is not an exclusivity issue. God’s word also prohibits sexual activity amongst heterosexuals outside of the bond of Holy Matrimony.

Jon

 

[benjohnson]

What about the multiple places in Scripture that are against homosexual relations?

Perhaps I should be more clear: giving pastoral love to Homosexuals does not mean encouraging sin. Quite the opposite.

The scriptures are very clear: Homosexual acts are a mockery and abuse of our God-given bodies.

But those who have same-sex attraction and repent and seek forgivness can certainly come to Christ without trepidation.

 

[bsroufek]

Men and women are different, even though both are human. Women bear children. Does that mean that mean should too? God said, “And he shall rule over you.” in Genesis, referring to the authority man was given over women.

Authority is a gift that is given to men, and the priestly office belongs to men because of its authority and unity with the person of Christ.

 

[Porknpie]

No comment

Disobedience to the Church established by Christ is not a good thing. Interesting on why he says that he did this see ( bridgetmarys.blogspot.com/2011/06/married-priests-now-prelature-ordains.html ) despite knowing it was against ecclesial law.

He did this, he said, to be in solidarity with the bishops of the Roman Catholic Women Priests Association (RCWP), to make available the support of episcopacy, in particular, to married Catholic priests, Catholic women priests and other faithful and spiritual seekers.

Christ guides the Church to all Truth, not members acting out of disobedience.

 

[steve_b]

Your Catholic cousins should have needed no “discouragement” from an LCMS pastor regarding reception at a parish not in communion with the Bishop of Rome. They should have been well catechized in their own faith which does not permit it. It seems to me that, out of respect for their own communion’s stated practice, they would have chosen not to approach to receive.

It comes down to good manners. When I go to a Catholic mass, I do not approach to receive because the Catholic Church asks me not to.

Nothing would please me more than to see Lutherans and Catholics be able to come to the Lord’s Supper together, at one altar, either altar. But until unity, we must respect the wishes of a host parish as guests. ISTM that doing otherwise does a disservice to the prospects of unity, and undermines true ecumenical dialogue.

I might add that this puts no barrier to Christ, as Catholics can and do receive His true body and blood at a Catholic mass, just as we do at ours.
Jon

As you probably know, the Catholic Church doesn’t recognize Lutheran ordinations. So Lutheran consecrations don’t produce the realities one receives in a Catholic mass.

 

[EvangelCatholic]

As you probably know, the Catholic Church doesn’t recognize Lutheran ordinations. So Lutheran consecrations don’t produce the realities one receives in a Catholic mass.

What’s your opinion of Pope Benedict’s suggestion that the Augsburg Confession is a “Catholic creed”?

 

[steve_b]

What’s your opinion of Pope Benedict’s suggestion that the Augsburg Confession is a “Catholic creed”?

Do you have a source?

 

[JonNC]

As you probably know, the Catholic Church doesn’t recognize Lutheran ordinations. So Lutheran consecrations don’t produce the realities one receives in a Catholic mass.

That is, of course, the Catholic view. Though off topic…

“I count among the most important results of the ecumenical dialogues the insight that the issue of the eucharist cannot be narrowed to the problem of ‘validity.’ Even a theology oriented to the concept of succession, such as that which holds in the Catholic and in the Orthodox church, need not in any way deny the salvation-granting presence of the Lord [Heilschaffende Gegenwart des Herrn] in a Lutheran [evangelische] Lord’s Supper.” - Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger

He would, however, I suspect, have a different take on whether this would apply to women ordained in some Lutheran communities.

Jon

 

[JonNC]

What’s your opinion of Pope Benedict’s suggestion that the Augsburg Confession is a “Catholic creed”?

The problem is the Augsburg Confession doesn’t support your contention that women should be ordained.

Article XIV: Of Ecclesiastical Order.

Of Ecclesiastical Order they teach that no one should publicly teach in the Church or administer the Sacraments unless he be regularly called.

Jon

 

[JonNC]

Do you have a source?

firstthings.com/onthesquare/2013/02/roman-catholics-and-confessional-lutherans-explore-deeper-ties

Quoted here, and in other places. The quote is a reality.

Jon

 

[PRmerger]

What’s your opinion of Pope Benedict’s suggestion that the Augsburg Confession is a “Catholic creed”?

All truth is Catholic truth, Evangel. So to the degree that the Augsburg Confession is consonant with Catholicism is the degree to which we say

 

[EvangelCatholic]

Do you have a source?

This is a fairly conservative Catholic assessment"
catholicworldreport.com/Blog/939/the_pope_martin_luther_and_our_time.aspx

From the Reformed
thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tgc/2013/02/11/9-things-you-should-know-about-pope-benedict-xvi/
"4. After being ordained as a Catholic priest in 1951, Ratzinger became an academic theologian. He had a long career as an academic, serving as a professor of theology at several German universities, before being appointed a cardinal in 1977. Prior to the promotion Ratzinger had relatively little pastoral experience.

1. In 1976, he suggested that the Augsburg Confession, the primary confession of faith of the Lutheran Church and one of the most important documents of the Lutheran reformation, might possibly be recognized as a Catholic statement of faith. He later backed off this position because of differences between Catholics and Lutherans on the understanding of justification"

A Lutheran source:
.firstthings.com/onthesquare/2013/02/roman-catholics-and-confessional-lutherans-explore-deeper-ties

 

[Faithdancer]

Rosary service to the Mother Goddess

Sounds like something Richard Rohr would teach at the LA Religious Education Congress…complete with dancing girls and a light show!:extrahappy:

 

[steve_b]

That is, of course, the Catholic view. Though off topic…

I only brought it up in response to what you wrote.
J:

He would, however, I suspect, have a different take on whether this would apply to women ordained in some Lutheran communities.

Jon

The Cardinal’s “quote” doesn’t seem to be available in its context. If it is within a private conversation to another person, relayed by that person, you realize that’s no better than hear say. Therefore, do you have the context? In that quote, which seems highly selective, it doesn’t discount the issue of validity and apostolic succession. If it were mistakingly taken that way, The Cardinal would have contradicted many popes, in particular, he would contradict Apostolicae Curae papalencyclicals.net/Leo13/l13curae.htm directed at Anglican orders where validity and apostolic succession ARE essential components to valid ordination.

Re: women ordinations, it can’t be done in the Catholic Church.

 

[EvangelCatholic]

Sounds like something Richard Rohr would teach at the LA Religious Education Congress…complete with dancing girls and a light show!:extrahappy:

Per Wikipedia -
"A Franciscan Friar, Rohr is in good standing with his archdiocese in Santa Fe, New Mexico, and also with Rome"

Yes?

 

[JonNC]

This is a fairly conservative Catholic assessment"
catholicworldreport.com/Blog/939/the_pope_martin_luther_and_our_time.aspx

From the Reformed
thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tgc/2013/02/11/9-things-you-should-know-about-pope-benedict-xvi/
"4. After being ordained as a Catholic priest in 1951, Ratzinger became an academic theologian. He had a long career as an academic, serving as a professor of theology at several German universities, before being appointed a cardinal in 1977. Prior to the promotion Ratzinger had relatively little pastoral experience.

1. In 1976, he suggested that the Augsburg Confession, the primary confession of faith of the Lutheran Church and one of the most important documents of the Lutheran reformation, might possibly be recognized as a Catholic statement of faith. He later backed off this position because of differences between Catholics and Lutherans on the understanding of justification"

A Lutheran source:
.firstthings.com/onthesquare/2013/02/roman-catholics-and-confessional-lutherans-explore-deeper-ties

Thanks for posting this link. From the article:

While dialogue between Roman Catholics and mainline Lutherans continues, a desire has arisen among Roman Catholics to begin looking to confessional Lutherans for more fruitful dialogue.

Now, why do you suppose that’s the case? Just some ideas:

1. We don’t ordain women - in keeping with scripture and the historic Church
2. We don’t ordain gays in a “committed relationship”
3. We oppose abortion in all forms, including abortion drugs.
4. Here in America, we are standing with our Catholic siblings against the HHS Mandate.
   Just to name a few.

Jon

 

[JonNC]

I only brought it up in response to what you wrote.

The Cardinal’s “quote” doesn’t seem to be available in its context. If it is within a private conversation to another person, relayed by that person, you realize that’s no better than hear say. Therefore, do you have the context? In that quote, which seems highly selective, it doesn’t discount the issue of validity and apostolic succession. If it were mistakingly taken that way, The Cardinal would have contradicted many popes, in particular, he would contradict Apostolicae Curae papalencyclicals.net/Leo13/l13curae.htm directed at Anglican orders where validity and apostolic succession ARE essential components to valid ordination.

.

Context: A letter written to a German Lutheran bishop, found in the Cardinal’s book, *Pilgrim Fellowship of Faith: The Church as Communion * and quoted on the USCCB website:

nccbuscc.org/seia/koinonia.shtml paragraph 107.
But read the whole thing. It is worth it.

Re: women ordinations, it can’t be done in the Catholic Church

yes. That’s why I made the comment.
Women’s ordinations can’t be done in the LCMS, either.

Jon

 

[EvangelCatholic]

Thanks for posting this link. From the article:

Now, why do you suppose that’s the case? Just some ideas:

1. We don’t ordain women - in keeping with scripture and the historic Church
2. We don’t ordain gays in a “committed relationship”
3. We oppose abortion in all forms, including abortion drugs.
4. Here in America, we are standing with our Catholic siblings against the HHS Mandate.
   Just to name a few.

Jon

I respect your opinion. Don’t forget, I am a cradle Lutheran educated in the LCMS. Many ‘catholics’ in the 1970’s left the Missouri Synod over seminary restraints and had a hand in renewing Apostolic Succession to American Lutheranism [ELCA].