Catholic woman ordained in Lutheran Church

[steido01]

Evangel is a member of the ELCA and admits to being in a group/church that celebrates same sex marriage, ordains women, accepts homosexual members and the only thing Evangel has not said is that his own sexual orientation is in question, however it does make you wonder:shrug:

Coptic, as a member of a Confessional Lutheran body (LCMS), I am often put off by the actions of other bodies that call themselves Lutheran… but I fail to see what anyone’s sexual orientation has to do with this thread? Same to EvangelCatholic, too. I’m not sure why the two of you seem to be fixated on implying that the other questions their own sexual orientation, but it does not contribute to this topic and doesn’t come across as particularly charitable… Can we get back to the discussion?

EvangelCatholic, could you answer my question about the ELCA leadership?

I’d be curious to hear from your perspective why ELCA leadership has permitted this strangeness to continue. Chicago has been, at best, reluctant to take disciplinary action and, at worst, perhaps even affirming of herchurch’s practices.

Yours in Christ,

 

[aidanbradypop]

If it were to read…“Baptist women ordained in Lutheran Church”…would it be such an issue for you EC?

What if it read…“LCMS women ordained in the ELCA”…would that be an issue for you? The Baptist denomination, for the majority, do not ordain women. They believe the women should not hold positions of authority in their faith and that the man is the one chosen by God. In many fundamentalist sects, man has the final say so in everything. SO…why no fuse about the Baptist faith not ordaining women? Why is it that only the Catholic Church gets grief for not doing such a thing?

 

[benjohnson]

I fail to see what anyone’s sexual orientation has to do with this thread?

I agree - one of the best Christians I know is a man who struggles with same-sex attraction. He certainly doesn’t support priests in a life of constant unrepentant sin.

I do however observe that generally those that have lower standards for our shepherds seem to carry those standards into their own lives as all the people that I admire seem to want to build up the church and not tear it down.

 

[MaryT777]

If it were to read…“Baptist women ordained in Lutheran Church”…would it be such an issue for you EC?

What if it read…“LCMS women ordained in the ELCA”…would that be an issue for you? The Baptist denomination, for the majority, do not ordain women. They believe the women should not hold positions of authority in their faith and that the man is the one chosen by God. In many fundamentalist sects, man has the final say so in everything. SO…why no fuse about the Baptist faith not ordaining women? Why is it that only the Catholic Church gets grief for not doing such a thing?

The truth is always persecuted.

 

[steve_b]

My synod did not, but then again, I suspect the CC would rather have a dialogue partner who, like they, are steadfast, and work from that steadfast position.

Thinking outloud I’d settle for -]steadfast /-], results, but I’m not holding my breath.

With the Lutherans I suspect dialogue has been going on for ~500 years
With the E Orthodox, dialogue has been ongoing for 1000 years.

uch:either way, that’s a looooooooong time to be in negotiations on all kinds of issues, particularly division .

Re: the topic, it’s probably safe to say, the woman / women, is /are no longer Catholic but now -]Catholic./-] ex Catholic. My prayers ascending for their souls

 

[JonNC]

Thinking outloud I’d settle for -]steadfast /-], results, but I’m not holding my breath.

With the Lutherans I suspect dialogue has been going on for ~500 years
With the E Orthodox, dialogue has been ongoing for 1000 years.

uch:either way, that’s a looooooooong time to be in negotiations on all kinds of issues, particularly division .
:

Actually, there wasn’t much between us before Vat II .
I won’t hold my breath, either, but will pray.

Jon

 

[Porknpie]

Evangel is a member of the ELCA and admits to being in a group/church that celebrates same sex marriage, ordains women, accepts homosexual members and the only thing Evangel has not said is that his own sexual orientation is in question, however it does make you wonder:shrug:

But Coptic, the written Word of God says women should not even speak in Church. How then can they become Pastors? Kingdom Baptist Church agrees with this. Read here.

What makes Kingdom Baptist Church right and other Baptist churches wrong? And how can Catholic women believe that they can be ordained when the bible says that they can’t even speak?

 

[mayogirl25]

Interesting articles of a group of Roman Catholic women being ordained priests. In this case the ordaination will be in San Francisco. It is no surprise that the ordination today is to occur at the notorious Ebenezer Lutheran Church.

sophiaintrinity.org/

davidperry.com/maria-eitz-to-be-first-female-catholic-priest-ordained-in-san-francisco.html

I googled it and also found the announcement on the front page of the LA Times:

latimes.com/news/local/la-me-female-priests-20130526,0,2491697,full.story

Any thoughts?

So what? It is not anything in the Catholic Church so they can do what they want and it means absolutely nothing. As a Catholic woman I do hope that someday women can become priests in the Catholic Church but it probably won’t happen in my lifetime.

 

[mayogirl25]

Actually, there wasn’t much between us before Vat II .
I won’t hold my breath, either, but will pray.

Jon

So Jon, if there wasn’t that much between us before Vatican II then why aren’t you now RC? Ha ha! Just a thought. Why don’t you come home?

 

[aidanbradypop]

So what? It is not anything in the Catholic Church so they can do what they want and it means absolutely nothing. As a Catholic woman I do hope that someday women can become priests in the Catholic Church but it probably won’t happen in my lifetime.

As a Catholic man, I hope someday that priest can get married.

I find it interesting to say the least. My wife, a very strong and independent woman, does not want female priest. She states that it goes against Scripture and that if Christ wanted female priest, He would have created such.

 

[PRmerger]

So what? It is not anything in the Catholic Church so they can do what they want and it means absolutely nothing. As a Catholic woman I do hope that someday women can become priests in the Catholic Church but it probably won’t happen in my lifetime.

This shows an impoverished understanding of the priesthood.

The priesthood is not about what he** does**. For if it were, surely a woman could **do all the things that a priest does–counsel parishioners, manage a parish, preach uplifting homilies–and perhaps do **this even better than a man.

However, the priesthood is about who he** is**, ontologically. At a priest’s ordination the universe is changed forever. What existed 10 seconds prior to the ordination, a man before God, exists no more. The universe is changed forever!

 

[benjohnson]

As a Catholic man, I hope someday that priest can get married.

Trying to step back away from my own prejudices, I do see that married priests work well in our church on a local ‘small-church’ level. However, from what I can see from the evidence, maintaining a celibate episcopacy would probably be good idea.

My hunch is that there’s noting specific about celibacy that adds any particular virtue, but it’s a mark of dedication to the church. In addition, it’s hard not to notice that churches with married Bishops tend to have issues with maintaining their church’s direction.

The biggest issue, I would think, would be to ponder if allowing more married priests (other than Anglican converts) would somehow lead to married bishops. Our EO friends seem to be able to maintain a sharp dividing line - so we do know it’s possible.

 

[aidanbradypop]

Trying to step back away from my own prejudices, I do see that married priests work well in our church on a local ‘small-church’ level. However, from what I can see from the evidence, maintaining a celibate episcopacy would probably be good idea.

My hunch is that there’s noting specific about celibacy that adds any particular virtue, but it’s a mark of dedication to the church. In addition, it’s hard not to notice that churches with married Bishops tend to have issues with maintaining their church’s direction.

The biggest issue, I would think, would be to ponder if allowing more married priests (other than Anglican converts) would somehow lead to married bishops. Our EO friends seem to be able to maintain a sharp dividing line - so we do know it’s possible.

I was being a bit sarcastic Ben lol…Sorry

 

[ndismyhome]

Evangel is a member of the ELCA and admits to being in a group/church that celebrates same sex marriage,

Actually, only certain parishes do this. Most of them are opposed or indifferent to the matter. The ELCA, nationally, has deferred the decision to local congregations. Saying that we “celebrate same sex marriage” is a gross overstatement.

(It) accepts homosexual members

I wasn’t aware that sinners were excluded from any Christian church. Many of the monastics in Orthodoxy are people who would be termed, in contemporary speech, homosexual. If you are trying to say something about the ELCA’s policy of allowing parishes to decide if they wish to have pastors in same sex partnerships or not, that is a matter different from “accepting homosexual members”.

In Christ,
ND

 

[ndismyhome]

Interesting articles of a group of Roman Catholic women being ordained priests. In this case the ordaination will be in San Francisco. It is no surprise that the ordination today is to occur at the notorious Ebenezer Lutheran Church.

sophiaintrinity.org/

davidperry.com/maria-eitz-to-be-first-female-catholic-priest-ordained-in-san-francisco.html

I googled it and also found the announcement on the front page of the LA Times:

latimes.com/news/local/la-me-female-priests-20130526,0,2491697,full.story

Any thoughts?

I haven’t read up on this entirely, but I thought I came across something somewhere that stated that the bishop who ordained these women was part of the Old Catholic church. Would that make these women priest(ess?)s in that denomination?

 

[aidanbradypop]

Actually, only certain parishes do this. Most of them are opposed or indifferent to the matter. The ELCA, nationally, has deferred the decision to local congregations. Saying that we “celebrate same sex marriage” is a gross overstatement.

They are not condoning it! Sounds like they are saying…“let’s not step on anyone’s toes now.” Christ stepped on a lot of toes while here. Correct? We can love the sinner, yet hate the sin. Allowing a congregation to “decide” is allowing the ELCA to go down the wrong path. There is a wonderful ELCA pastor on the board that prayes for Orthodoxy within the ELCA and I praise him for doing so.

When there is not central authority, things start to get fuzzy.

 

[aidanbradypop]

I haven’t read up on this entirely, but I thought I came across something somewhere that stated that the bishop who ordained these women was part of the Old Catholic church. Would that make these women priest(ess?)s in that denomination?

Maybe, but the OCC does not have valid orders and nor can women become priest. Kind of makes them nothing.

 

[steido01]

I do not condone what is going on at the Lutheran Church of the Ebenezer in San Francisco. When I first read about their Rosary service to the Mother Goddess I wrote to the Lutheran bishop of that synod asking him to look into this matter.

I’ve read about others who have done the same and received no real answer from the local synod or from the ELCA hierarchy (Bishop Hanson’s response to Pastor Gary Jepson, for example). That is why:

I’d be curious to hear from your perspective why ELCA leadership has permitted this strangeness to continue. Chicago has been, at best, reluctant to take disciplinary action and, at worst, perhaps even affirming of herchurch’s practices.

If you’d prefer to answer in PM, that’s fine. I know it would only be your personal speculation, but I just want to understand from an ‘insider’ why the ELCA hasn’t imposed any disciplinary actions.

Yours in Christ,

 

[ndismyhome]

I just want to understand from an ‘insider’ why the ELCA hasn’t imposed any disciplinary actions.

I know that this isn’t directed at me, but here’s my three cents (which are probably worthless, as my personally minted money seems to be useless at local stores). The ELCA, as with many other, if not all, mainline Protestant churches really, really want to keep up their numbers and cultural prestige. We want to be relevant in society at large. We want people to notice us and our impact on the world around us. Consequently, we have, over the course of the past few centuries, limited those facets of our faith that would divide, such as a rigid application of doctrine, in favor of those that have the power to unite us, such as charitable works and social justice issues. This is grossly over-simplified, but I think that it helps frame some of the rationale behind a lot of what happens in mainline Protestantism, and the ELCA in particular.

 

[ndismyhome]

Maybe, but the OCC does not have valid orders and nor can women become priest. Kind of makes them nothing.

I guess my point is that the media latched on to their self-understanding of being Roman Catholic in order to blow the issue up to sell more papers etc. rather than portraying it in its fullness.