Catholic Worship of Mary

[Mickey]

cheddarsox:

I do not think that most Catholics worship Mary, nor that most Catholics are slower than chimpanzees, but I do think there is a real blind spot when it comes to Marian devotion and where the line between appropriate and inappropriate devotions is set.

Since you believe that most do not worship Mary, perhaps you should pray for those who you feel have an improper devotion, instead of criticizing Christ’s Church.

cheddarsox:

These are concerns that came to me when I was a very devout and studious Catholic.

How sad that you abandoned the fullness of truth. I will pray that you return.

 

[jaydog77]

Brendan:

Singinbeauty,

Here is Scripture on the Wedding Feast at Cana.

Can you answer, in your own words the questions below?

John 2 (NIV)

Did Jesus desire to perform this miracle?

Did Jesus, in fact, perform a miracle?

If so, why?

Brenden - by now I’m sure you already know you worship Mary without knowing it, worship the Pope without knowing, worship bread without knowing it and read a bible your church added to in the 16th century. I suggest you read some Jack Chick comic books and start believing in the true faith that didn’t begin until the reformation (Christ was such a failure!).

 

[jaydog77]

cheddarsox:

These are concerns that came to me when I was a very devout and studious Catholic. They have nothing to do with an axe to grind etc. I do not hate the church, but this area concerns me greatly.

cheddar

Curious, how can someone be a very devout and studious Catholic when you don’t believe what the Church believes. I think you need some degree of faith to be a Catholic. Basically it sounds like you’re saying “I was devout and studious Catholic until I started thinking for myself”. It usually goes the other way, you’re giving a REASON to believe, therefore you believe.

Another thing quite curious, how does an ex-Catholic “Pantheist” think “Mary Worship” is an area that needs to concern him greatly? No Catholic doctrines should affect “Pantheists” at all. That would be like me thinking the Second Pillar of Islam are an area of concern for me. I could care less what false god they want to worship or how they want to worship it. Similarly, if we are worshiping falsely, why do you care?

 

[Orionthehunter]

cheddarsox:

Deb, actually, I do sort of feel that way. I feel that the church gives the honor given to Mary a different name, when, for a tremendous number of believers, it actually amounts to worship. Then, when someone says "hmm, I’m concerned about that, it looks, feels and smells like worship. " everyone can say “on, don’t be silly, it’s hyperdulia!”

I think the church allows it to continue for the same reason Moses allowed the people to create a golden calf, to keep them happy. Many have such a deep devotion to Mary that to make any chastizing statements against such would create havock.

Because what the church says, goes. If the church tells people that pretty much no matter what they do in the way of Marian devotion is OK, then people will accept it.

While the church does teach that worship to Mary is wrong, on the other hand, the church also supports many devotions, and shares prayers and practices that are essentially indistinguishable from worship. I find that very confusing.

I found it confusing as a Catholic. I felt the church was playing word games with me. Telling me that worship was just hyperdulia, even though, in experience it was indistinguishable from latria, at least for me, and for many others I have spoken with.

And there was no way to discuss it, because when the subject arose, Marian types would go ballistic at the mere mention of the possibility that anyone placed Mary perhaps a bit higher than is appropriate.

I do not think that most Catholics worship Mary, nor that most Catholics are slower than chimpanzees, but I do think there is a real blind spot when it comes to Marian devotion and where the line between appropriate and inappropriate devotions is set.

I think people deny that Mary is worshipped because they don’t want to accept that something wrong is taking place. And the people who participate are misled people, not evil people. And the church has given them an out by creating a label which legitimizes their behavior.

These are concerns that came to me when I was a very devout and studious Catholic. They have nothing to do with an axe to grind etc. I do not hate the church, but this area concerns me greatly.

cheddar

Cheddar, I find your entire post puzzling for one whose profile describes yourself as a pantheist.

While I’m not one that practices special devotions to Mary (but agree with the Church Teachings regarding the Mother of God, Queen of Heaven), I do say rosaries at wakes, sometimes before Mass if one is being led, and try to say one on her Feast Days and during Lent. I will fervently defend those who do against the false charge of worshiping Mary. The most devout followers of Christ that I know all have a special devotion to Mary and I aspire to one day gain their devotion as I know it will enhance my relationship w/ Christ. I will also patiently explain the doctrines to Protestants sincerely discerning the Church as I understand it is a primary obstacle for so many. I understand why many have this obstacle because of the false teachings they may have learned in their Protestant denomination and becuase many Protestants seldom kneel in their worship, seeing CAtholics kneel while practicing a Marian devotion must certainly be confusing.

However, you being one raised Catholic should know better and I have less patience for you. While you acknowledge that the Church condemns Marian worship, you assert that the Church “supports many devotions, and shares prayers and practices that are essentially indistinguishable from worship”. Unless in your pantheist wisdom you are able to see into the hearts of others, this claim is balderdash. In fact, when the Church discovers Marian worship it is quick to condemn and take action. The reason that those with Marian devotions “go ballistic” is they are sick and tired of defending themselves against people whose attacks are the work of the devil (Singing, I don’t put your question this light) as these attacks are meant to divide and scandalize good Christian witness and prayer.

But with regard, the fallacy of your observations proving “Marian worship” can be refuted by the the following story.

There is a man in his mid-50’s, early 60’s who lives near my house and I drive by his house every morning to work. Each morning, he comes out into his yard, reverently unfolding an American flag that he carefully attaches to his flag pole, raises it to full mast, salutes and reverently stares at the flag for at least 30 seconds. If one were to be presumptious, you could reach the conclusion that he is worshiping the flag. However, if you were to ask him about his morning and evening ritual, he would tell you that he is reciting the names of all his friends who died or were wounded in Vietnam. This reverence shown every day to the flag is his expression of gratitude to these friends for their sacrifice. Parellels nicely with Marian devotions if you ask me.

 

[cheddarsox]

E.E.N.S.:

I couldn’t disagree with this more. Mary is not simply “put up with” for the sake of the people, in fact devotion to her is highly recommended by many MANY saints and Popes throughout the ages. It is very clear how devotion to Mary is to be understood in many different writings (whether they use poetic language or not), and I firmly believe that anyone (pre-conceived notion or not) who actually reads the material fully and prayerfully will not only get past any road block that they may currently have, but they will find that proper devotion to Mary to be very effecatious.

Those who do not properly give attention to the material that is available on the subject, or for those who go about it simply in a bias manner, determined only to find some wrong therein, I do not give even a 1 in 10,000 chance of understanding.

I never stated or implied that Mary should not be honored. I have only addressed INAPPROPRIATE devotions to Mary, not appropriate and efficacious ones.

You have provided an example of how, when the subject is raised, it cannot be spoken about. All devotions must be defended, and it is assumed that anyone with a genuine and heartfelt concern is “against Mary”. This has been my experience whenever the subject arises. I am told I am “against Mary and devotions to Mary” case closed.

People refuse to even address that there are right and wrong ways to honor the Virgin.

cheddar

 

[cheddarsox]

jaydog77:

Curious, how can someone be a very devout and studious Catholic when you don’t believe what the Church believes. I think you need some degree of faith to be a Catholic. Basically it sounds like you’re saying “I was devout and studious Catholic until I started thinking for myself”. It usually goes the other way, you’re giving a REASON to believe, therefore you believe.

Another thing quite curious, how does an ex-Catholic “Pantheist” think “Mary Worship” is an area that needs to concern him greatly? No Catholic doctrines should affect “Pantheists” at all. That would be like me thinking the Second Pillar of Islam are an area of concern for me. I could care less what false god they want to worship or how they want to worship it. Similarly, if we are worshiping falsely, why do you care?

I care because I have many friends and family in the Catholic church and because I too once was a Catholic, and was hurt and saddened by having to leave my faith of origin over such things.

cheddar

 

[scylla]

Again cheddarsox, you are using a common method of perception to judge instead of real teaching, and especially as an ex-catholic you would probably be of a more biased opinion naturally than that of a Catholic.

As a former Calvary Chapel member I wouldn’t be an authority to say what Calvary Chapel members believe completely as I have come home to the Catholic Church. So would it be right for me to say non-denominational Christians worship the Bible, I have seen it. They let it go on because they don’t want to offend the “Bible worshippers”. or would it be more honest to say, go ask non-denominational Christians their beliefs and see how they compare to the Catholic Church. If I use my own personal experiences then I am just mis-representing their position, as this is just something I experienced, instead of looking at official teaching or asking them what is their beliefs.

So when we quote the Catholic Church on Mary and state that we don’t worship her, then why keep insisting that we do what we don’t believe in? (since your profile says Pantheist) This is like me saying you worship dirt and you deny it, yet I insist you do. I don’t believe you worship dirt unless you tell me that.

God Bless
Scylla

 

[Orionthehunter]

cheddarsox:

People refuse to even address that there are right and wrong ways to honor the Virgin.

The Church is quite specific on the correct ways to honor Mary and is quick to condemn movements or individuals who improperly worship Mary.

 

[itsjustdave1988]

deb1:

One of the best and simplest arguements that I have seen against our worship of Mary is that if we worshipped her, why wouldn’t we admit to doing so? Do nonCatholics think that all Catholics are taught to lie about their beliefs? If I saw Mary as a Goddess, wouldn’t I proudly admit that?

Great point. Also, when we worship on Sunday, how many times is Mary even mentioned? I think she is mentioned twice in the entire liturgy, once during the Nicene Creed and once during the Eucharistic prayer when we pray “Father, in your mercy grant also to us , your children, to enter into our heavenly inheritance in the company of the Virgin Mary, the Mother of God, and your apostles and saints.” If we worship Mary and not Jesus, then we are not doing a very good job of it. http://bargains.christianstart.com/talk/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif

An ex-Catholic asked me whether Jesus was our Lord and Savior, stating …

… i only heard Jesus name mentioned twice each mass. that was during confession and doing the trinity. so i am curious.

Here was my reply…

Hmmm. Perhaps you weren’t paying all that close attention. http://bargains.christianstart.com/talk/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif

Let me go through the Order of the Mass and count the times Jesus name is mentioned, then also count the times Jesus is referred to by the many other names we find in scripture and apostolic tradition …

The Entrance Procession: during the entrance procession we all sing a hymn —some even on key. http://bargains.christianstart.com/talk/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif This hymn can be one of many hymns from the hymnal. However, one my parish often sings is called “Jesus Christ, Yesterday, Today and Forever.” In the refrain, “Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ, yesterday, today and forever”, I count his name twice. In the rest of the song I see “savior,” “son of God,” “O radiant light,” “O sun divine” “alpha” “omega” “friend” “image of light sublime” “ever living Lord” “source of light” “compassionate one” “friend of the oppressed” … and some of these are repeated during the hymn. That brings the count to 7 without counting repetition in just the entrance hymn alone.

The Greeting. “In the name of the Father, and of the Son (that’s 8), and of the Holy Spirit.” “The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ (that’s 9) and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all”

The Penitential Rite. Most often sung in the ancient Greek at my parish: “Kyrie Eleison, Christe Eleison, Kyrie Eleison” which means “Lord have mercy, Christ have mercy Lord have Mercy” (that’s 10, 11, and 12).

The Gloria. Also sung in my parish. In it Christ is referred to as “Lord” “heavenly king” “Jesus Christ” “only son of the Father” “Lamb of God” “Holy One” “Most High” (that’s up to 18, not counting repetition)

Opening Prayer. This prayer varies, selecting one randomly from my missal (from the Eighth Sunday in Ordinary Time): “Lord, guide the course of world events and give your Church the joy and peace of seving it in freedom. We ask this though our Lord Jesus Christ, your Son, who lives and reighs with you and the Holy Spirit, one God, for ever and ever. Amen.” (that’s up to 19)

The First Reading from Scripture. This comes from the Old Testament. No mention of Jesus there, however certainly pre-figured and prophesied.

The Psalms. Normally sung at my parish. Again, as this is from the Old Testament, there’s no mention of Jesus directly.

The Second Reading from Scripture. Lot’s of mention of Jesus Christ in this reading as it comes from one of the non-Gospel New Testament Readings. Let’s just make an estimate of 5 for the second reading. (that’s up to 24 times)

The Gospel Acclamation. Also sung as “Alleluia Alleluia” followed by a the cantor singing a something like “Christ took away our infirmities and bore our diseases,” and finishing with “Alleluis Alleluis” refrain. Typically Christ is mentioned at least once here (that’s up to 25 times).

The Gospel Reading. Introduces with “The Lord be with you” and also including a “Glory to you, Lord” (that’s up to 26 times). Then the reading of the Gospel, where I would guess another 5 times Christ is typically mentioned. (that’s up to 31 times)

Homily. If we have Fr. Mike, the homily is short and sweet. If we have Fr. Brad, it can be quite long. I’d estimate about 20 times where Christ is mentioned. (that’s up to 51 times).

The Profession of Faith (The Nicene Creed) Here he is referred to as “Jesus Christ” “Son of God” “Eternally Begotten of the Father” “Light from Light” “God from God” “Lord” (that’s up to 57 without repetition)

to be continued…

 

[itsjustdave1988]

continued…

General Intercession. In this part of the mass, we offer prayers for those in need. After each prayer we say “Lord, hear our prayer” (that’s 58 times without repetition)

Before the preparation of the gifts, a tithe is collected. During which we sing another hymn, which typically mentions the name of Jesus about 5 times (that’s 63 times not counting repetition).

Preparation of the Altar and Gifts. We blessed the Eucharistic gifts of bread and wine. God the Father is mentioned, but not God the Son.

Prayer Over the Gifts. At the end of this prayer, we say “we ask this through Christ our Lord. Amen.” (that’s 64 times)

Eucharistic Prayer. There are several variation of this prayer, in a typical prayer Jesus is called “beloved Son” “Jesus Christ” “the Word through whom you made the Universe” “the Savior You sent to redeem us” “Holy Lord” “Hosanna in the Highest” with quite a few repetitions. (that’s 70 times not counting repetitions)

The Lord’s Prayer. After the Lord’s Prayer, we pray the Doxology: “Deliver us Lord from every evil and grant us peace in our day. In your mercy, keep us free from sin and protect us from all anxiety as we wait in joyful hope for our Savior Jesus Christ. For the Kingdom and the power and the glory are yours, now and forever.” (that’s 71 times)

The Sign of Peace. “Lord Jesus Christ (that’s 72) you said to your apostles, I leave you peace, my peace I give you. Look not on our sins but on the faith of your Church, and grant us the peace and unity of your kingdom where you live forever and ever” “The peace of the Lord (that’s 73) be with you always …”

Communion. The consecrated bread is broken and the Body and Blood of Christ are raised while we say the “Lamb of God”: “Lamb of God (that’s 74), you take away the sins of the world, happy are those who are called to this supper” then “Lord (that’s 75), I am not worthy to receive you, but only say the word and I shall be healed”

During the Eucharistic celebration we typically sing two more hymns. Depending on the hymn the number of times Jesus is mentioned varies, however, 10 more times in these two hymns is a fair estimate. (that’s 80 times)

Prayer after communion. The prayer after communion is typically short, ending in “… we ask this through Christ our Lord. Amen.” (that’s 81 times).

Concluding Rite. “The Lord (that’s 82) be with you” and “May Almighty God bless you in the name of the Father, and of the Son (that’s 83) and of the Holy Spirit” and “The Mass is ended, go in peace to love and serve the Lord (that’s 84)”

Typically we sing a concluding hymn with an estimated mention of Jesus of about 5 more times without repetition.

That makes a total of 89 times the name of the Jesus is mentioned in one way or another. The Mass takes about 60 minutes. So, during the Catholic Mass, we proclaim Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior one to two times every minute.

Contrast this with the number of times Mary is mentioned in one way or another. Twice. Once during the Nicene Creed and once during the Eucharistic prayer when we pray “Father, in your mercy grant also to us , your children, to enter into our heavenly inheritance in the company of the Virgin Mary, the Mother of God, and your apostles and saints.”

It seems quite clear to me as a Catholic who my Lord and Savior is. http://bargains.christianstart.com/talk/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif

 

[jaydog77]

cheddarsox:

I care because I have many friends and family in the Catholic church and because I too once was a Catholic, and was hurt and saddened by having to leave my faith of origin over such things.

cheddar

So because you are a former Catholic, it is your mission to try to tear down what other people believe (putting aside the utter absurdity of Pantheism for a second).

How are we in such danger in doing what you say we are doing (even though we say we aren’t worshiping Mary)? If you are in fact a Pantheist, according to the dictionary you believe in all gods. So if it is true we worship Mary as a god, then it isn’t a problem then is it? It’s just one more god for YOU to believe in.

 

[cheddarsox]

Orionthehunter:

However, you being one raised Catholic should know better and I have less patience for you. While you acknowledge that the Church condemns Marian worship, you assert that the Church “supports many devotions, and shares prayers and practices that are essentially indistinguishable from worship”.

**That was honestly my experience, repeatedly over many many years. I am sorry that it makes you uncomfortable, it made me uncomfortable too. I have sought to have it addressed many times, but people are quick to defend everhthing the church does, and not want to discuss with me, what I feel is a valid concern.

I feel it is important, but I have had preists and other Catholics nod and laugh it off “yeah, you know how those crazies get”. Yes, I have actually had them say that to me. They think it is funny and “cute”, an interesting part of Catholic culture. I find it disturbing. But, if everyone here honestly believes that no inappropriate devotion is taking place, that it was just some hallucination on my part, or some misunderstanding. Fine.

Call it hyperdulia. Call it whatever you want.

I am not concerned about appropriate devotions. Only those that cross the line. Apparently, I imagined the line. Scrupulousity I guess.

cheddar
**

 

[cheddarsox]

jaydog77:

So because you are a former Catholic, it is your mission to try to tear down what other people believe (putting aside the utter absurdity of Pantheism for a second).

**No, I was bringing up what I felt was a valid concern. It was a concern of mine, as a Catholic. It was part of my Catholic experience. I don’t think that blowing the whistle on incorrect behavior is the same as tearing down people’s beliefs. When people do things against church teaching, it is appropriate to call them on it.

I feel that I have witnessed and taken part in Marian devotions that cross the line and constitute worship. I feel that it is wrong that such takes place and would like to see the church take a stronger stand on such, because I think it is damaging to the church.

I support the church and her teachings. I do not support denial and protection of inappropriate devotions simply because they are aimed at Mary. She is worthy of honor, but is not honored when people cross the line.
**
How are we in such danger in doing what you say we are doing (even though we say we aren’t worshiping Mary)? If you are in fact a Pantheist, according to the dictionary you believe in all gods. So if it is true we worship Mary as a god, then it isn’t a problem then is it? It’s just one more god for YOU to believe in.

Pantheism is not about worshipping all gods. The form of pantheism I practice is monotheistic. One divine, in all things. The divine as the “I AM”. But that is a subject for another thread.

My concern is that the church teaches monotheism, and allows practices to go on that cross the line toward polytheism. It does the church no good, internally or externally to do so. It does not honor the Virgin Mother. It does not lead souls to Christ. It makes the church look hypocritical and as if the church condones the worship of that other than God.

That was my experience. I hope that it truly was some very localized abberation of the faith, and that perhaps it no longer takes place and my concerns have been laid to rest. But I suspect it is not.

cheddar

 

[Mickey]

cheddarsox:

I care because I have many friends and family in the Catholic church and because I too once was a Catholic, and was hurt and saddened by having to leave my faith of origin over such things.

You left the fullness of truth because of your perception that some people within the Church had an improper devotion to Mary? How very, very sad. :crying:

 

[jaydog77]

cheddarsox:

Pantheism is not about worshipping all gods. The form of pantheism I practice is monotheistic. One divine, in all things. The divine as the “I AM”. But that is a subject for another thread.

My concern is that the church teaches monotheism, and allows practices to go on that cross the line toward polytheism. It does the church no good, internally or externally to do so. It does not honor the Virgin Mother. It does not lead souls to Christ. It makes the church look hypocritical and as if the church condones the worship of that other than God.

That was my experience. I hope that it truly was some very localized abberation of the faith, and that perhaps it no longer takes place and my concerns have been laid to rest. But I suspect it is not.

cheddar

Well, a church with over a billion members (nominal and serious) with the scores of priests/bishops, and the number cultures it spans it is simply common sense that there are those who teach and worship falsely. You imply that the fact that it happens means there is something wrong with the Church and not the ones teaching falsely. There are a number of things the church needs to fix, address, pay attention to especially when it comes to abuses. Among them is groups who are against Church teaching on a wide variety of subjects. However, your being against honoring Mary that “goes over the line” brings up an interesting point.

Who says the way Mary is honored is wrong? You? Where are the Pantheist encyclicals condeming official Catholic doctrine? Furthermore, if you had any, on what authority do they (or you) speak? What are the punishments for “crossing the line”, what sources determine them? It sounds more like you are a protestant than anything else, in which case you probably need to update your profile.

 

[itsjustdave1988]

allhers:

Read this part over and over until it sinks in

even God himself, is subject to the Blessed Virgin, they mean that the authority which God was pleased to give her is so great that she seems to have the same power as God. Her prayers and requests are so powerful with him that he accepts them as commands in the sense that he never resists his dear mother’s prayer because it is always humble and conformed to his will…

The above is from St. Louis de Montfort. It is neither doctrinal pronouncment of a pope or council, and as such, is not Catholic doctrine, but is speculative theology.

I’d like to emphasize that Catholics are not bound to submit to speculative theology, such as the above. We are bound to Catholic doctrine, properly so-called, which comes from Sacred Scritpure, Sacred Tradition, as promulgated by papal and councilar teachings.

Speculative theology, even from Catholics saints, while interesting, are at times contrary to Catholic doctrine, and are not binding upon Catholics. Teachings universally promulgated by the solemn magisterium or ordinary magisterium as Catholic doctrine (ie. sententia certa), are binding.

Non-Catholics often quote from saints thinking that this means Catholics must agree with their writings. They are either ignorant or misunderstand Catholic ecclesiology and what is binding under Catholic canon law.

I would ask that our antagonists focus on papal encyclicals or other such formal teaching from popes, because the opinions of Catholics, even saints, is still merely opinion, not doctrine.

 

[Writer]

Singinbeauty:

But by that statement it seems as if you DO but you have been told you don’t because you can’t seem to be putting Mary before God because that is against the bible. God takes commands from NO ONE. That statement, on the surface, concerns me GREATLY…

I think it is another case of hyperbole…of well-meaning and excited Catholic culture going too far ahead of Catholic doctrine–speculative theology, as Dave noted. It is not how I would state my beliefs.

 

[mlchance]

cheddarsox:

I think people deny that Mary is worshipped because they don’t want to accept that something wrong is taking place.

Well, fortunately, what you (or I) think doesn’t define reality. The Catholic Church condemns the worship of anyone other than God. Always has. Always will. No right-thinking Catholic can honestly claim to worship Mary, and it has nothing to do with not wanting “accept that something wrong is taking place.”

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[E.E.N.S]

cheddarsox:

I never stated or implied that Mary should not be honored. I have only addressed INAPPROPRIATE devotions to Mary, not appropriate and efficacious ones.

You have provided an example of how, when the subject is raised, it cannot be spoken about. All devotions must be defended, and it is assumed that anyone with a genuine and heartfelt concern is “against Mary”. This has been my experience whenever the subject arises. I am told I am “against Mary and devotions to Mary” case closed.

People refuse to even address that there are right and wrong ways to honor the Virgin.

cheddar

Whoa whoa whoa…out of the two of us, I was the one addressing “proper devotion” and you were saying that the Church “allowed” Mary worship to take place as to not upset people. Your response in this manner was not merited.

 

[itsjustdave1988]

I’m thinking this is a good definition of *latria…***ADORATION. **The act of religion by which God is recognized as alone worthy of supreme honor because he is infinitely perfect, has supreme dominion over humans, and the right to human total dependence on the Creator. It is at once an act of mind and will, expressing itself in appropriate prayers, postures of praise, and acts of reverence and sacrifice. (Fr. John Hardon, Catholic Pocket Dictionary)

Here’s a good definition of dulia (hyperdulia being the same in kind, but simply a greater degree, which is fitting for the Mother of our Lord.)…**“VENERATION OF SAINTS. **Honor paid to the saints who, by their intercession and example and in their possession of God, minister to human sanctification, helping the faithful grow in Christian virtue. Venerating the saints does not detract from the glory given to God, since whatever good they possess is a gift from his bounty. They reflect the divine perfections, and their supernatural qualities result from the graces Christ merited for them by the Cross. In the language of the Church’s liturgy, the saints are venerated as sanctuaries of the Trinity, as adopted children of the Father, brethren of Christ, faithful members of his Mystical Body, and temples of the Holy Spirit.” (Fr. John Hardon, Catholic Pocket Dictionary)

If it is understanding that non-Catholics seek, then we can certainly assist. However, many times they don’t seek understanding, but only seek to *accuse, *based upon their false caricature of Catholicism.