Catholicism and Military service

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RolandThompsonGunner said:
Was he invoking his special teaching authority as the Vicar of Christ or was he just giving his opinion?
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I am not sure but when it comes to Catholic faith and morals, should I trust the opinion of the Holy Father, or should I trust the opinion of an American politician?
 
Unless the Pope’s invoking his teaching authority, that decision is entirely up to you.
 
ImQuiet said:
Unless the Pope’s invoking his teaching authority, that decision is entirely up to you.
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And in making my decision on a question of Catholic morality, should I trust an American politician (one of whom was ticketed for drunk driving) or should I trust the Catholic Holy Father who is the representative of Our Lord on earth and who is the moral leader of the world?
 
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AlNg said:
And in making my decision on a question of Catholic morality, should I trust an American politician (one of whom was ticketed for drunk driving) or should I trust the Catholic Holy Father who is the representative of Our Lord on earth and who is the moral leader of the world?
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Maybe you could read multiple sources and consult your own conscience if you ever find yourself serving in the military, which doesn’t seem likely.
 
AlNg said:
And in making my decision on a question of Catholic morality, should I trust an American politician (one of whom was ticketed for drunk driving) or should I trust the Catholic Holy Father who is the representative of Our Lord on earth and who is the moral leader of the world?
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So, you make a bunch of erronious claims about the military, our oath, etc…, are proven to be highly inaccurate, so then move the goalposts to so many X,Y coordinates it dosn’t matter how many land navigation courses I’ve passed or how sweet my compass is… I still won’t be able to find them…

If you don’t want to join the military, then don’t.

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RolandThompsonGunner said:
Maybe you could read multiple sources and consult your own conscience
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True. So which would be the more reliable:
  1. The Vicar of Christ on Earth and the moral leader of the whole world, His Holiness the Pope.
    or
  2. An American politician ticketed for drunk driving and known to be a liar.
    or
  3. A politician who is involved in a company which is one of the world’s largest providers of products and services to the oil industry and who has interests in region of the war.
  4. An anonymous blogger on the internet.
    Of those who do you suspect would be the most reliable source for information about Catholic morality?
 
AlNg said:
And in making my decision on a question of Catholic morality, should I trust an American politician (one of whom was ticketed for drunk driving)
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What? lol
Like I said, unless the Pope is invoking his teaching authority, the decision is up to you, assuming it’s in line with existing doctrine etc.
If you really dislike the military that much then just don’t join it. Problem solved.
 
There is nothing wrong with joining the military. Now if you have the intent to go to war to kill insurgents then yes it is wrong. I myself never saw combat (im a pre-9/11 vet) and I always prayed that if I did that God would guide me in my choices. Stay strong in your faith and I hope you have a great military career! Hooah!
 
Apache78 said:
I myself never saw combat (im a pre-9/11 vet)
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I got out in '05. I was USAR (remember…think reserves), we got back from our PT test and I had scored probably in the neighborhood of high 280’s into the 290’s somewhere. There was a recruiter at our unit that as soon as he heard the first person congratulate me, he had paperwork for Airborne ready to go.

At that point I was like “hell no, I don’t need to make myself more deployable”. Circa 2002 or 2003 the Army was cherry picking us left and right. If I was going to be deployed I wanted to go with my platoon. I’m already a 24yr old NCO (ready for BNOC). The last thing I wanted was Airborne.

I actually wanted Air Assault…really…really…bad, but not to the point to leave my unit and be deployed with anyone else. I’ve actually been kicking myself this week over passing up the chance. I wanted it so much, but everything was such a “cluster” in '02-'05 in the end it wasn’t worth it.
 
ImQuiet said:
. Problem solved.
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I don’t see it that way. If the war is unjust and has been cited as being unjust by the Catholic authorities, then it seems like it would be seriously wrong to be involved in killing people on the other side. One person is bad enough but when you are speaking of hundreds of thousands of people dead and the representative of the Pope and the Catholic Chaldean Patriarch has declared the war to be unjust, then i think that this is a big moral problem.
 
AlNg said:
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ImQuiet:
. Problem solved.
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I don’t see it that way. If the war is unjust and has been cited as being unjust by the Catholic authorities, then it seems like it would be seriously wrong to be involved in killing people on the other side. One person is bad enough but when you are speaking of hundreds of thousands of people dead and the representative of the Pope and the Catholic Chaldean Patriarch has declared the war to be unjust, then i think that this is a big moral problem.
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Unjust in his opinion. People are free to disagree.
 
Agreed…and that was basically the basis of the enlistment uptick late 01 into 02.
 
AlNg said:
True. So which would be the more reliable:
  1. The Vicar of Christ on Earth and the moral leader of the whole world, His Holiness the Pope.
    or
  2. An American politician ticketed for drunk driving and known to be a liar.
    or
  3. A politician who is involved in a company which is one of the world’s largest providers of products and services to the oil industry and who has interests in region of the war.
  4. An anonymous blogger on the internet.
    Of those who do you suspect would be the most reliable source for information about Catholic morality?
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Dude, I’m not going to relitigate the Iraq war with you. You’ve already acknowledged you “don’t know” in what capacity the Pope was speaking, which seems like a pretty important point for your argument. People keep bringing this up to you and you seem pretty unconcerned about the distinction. The pope may have intended to influence President Bush to continue pursuing diplomatic solutions. There’s no indication he meant it as a blanket statement for individual catholic soldiers. If what the pope meant was “serving in this war is per se sinful and every catholic in uniform is morally obligated to refuse”, presumably he could’ve said that.

If participation in the Iraq War were per se illegitimate for Catholics, you should probably tell all the Catholic chaplains ( aka military officers who are also catholic priests) who served there, or the bishops who visited troops deployed there. Seems like an odd move if serving in the Iraq war was inherently immoral.

You seem to have an axe to grind with people serving in the military, and frankly it doesn’t seem like a topic on which you’re particularly well informed. I’m not saying your concerns are crazy: I’m saying these are complicated questions and people in good faith can reach different conclusions.
 
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TC3033 said:
I got out in '05. I was USAR (remember…think reserves), we got back from our PT test and I had scored probably in the neighborhood of high 280’s into the 290’s somewhere.
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Look at this stud. 👍
 
My “cross to bear”, if you will, was I never got a patch.
 
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TC3033 said:
My “cross to bear”, of you will, was I never got a patch.
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I thought I was going to get a 101st patch because we were attached to them, but then that policy changed and the patch I actually got is way less cool. :unamused:Still proud of it though.
 
I wanted my APFT patch, but never got one… I always missed by one event.
 
I think you are missing my point. If you solely enlist to kill because you have hate in your heart then its morally wrong. But to enlist to serve your country and you have to defend yourself then its a little different.
 
Well, sure, if you enlisted because you just want shoot someone then yeah, that’s a bad sign.
 
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