Catholicism and overpopulation

[phil19034]

You said it’s a teaching. Show me in the CCC where the teaching is.

The teachings we are obliged to believe are in the CCC. Please show me in the CCC the teaching you refer to.

NOTE: Not every single Dogma, Doctrine or Discipline of the Church is in the CCC. The CCC is a reference book for a great percentage of the Catholic faith. However, it does not go deep into devotions, liturgies, private revelations, etc. It doesn’t even go deep into Public Revelation. It’s a summary, a good summary for sure, but not a complete summary.

It was the same for the Roman Catechism (Catechism of the Council of Trent). It was a good summary, but not a total summary.

 

[whatistrue]

The prayers do mention wrath and scourges, but the parts you quoted completely fail to specify what sort of wrath and scourges those might be. There are other punishments (some individual rather than group) than floods, earthquakes, and pestilence, or any of the other traditionally mentioned mass punishments. And no, just because it may be said during times of pestilence does not automatically mean it means that the pestilence is the scourge.

 

[Rau]

“Overpopulation” would only become a problem if govts continue to be driven by greed, corruption, irresponsiblity,

So on that basis, it could happen?

But it still wouldn’t really be an issue of too many people, but rather that greed corruption and irresponsibility preventing proper resource management

The planet is finite. Farmland is finite. Housing, industry, urban development expands.

If the population grows, and farmland yield grows less (or even the same on declining land area) - we could have a problem, couldn’t we.

I don’t disagree with your points about greed and corruption by the way. They are immediate problems.

Civilizations urbanize until they implode, then the people die off

Perhaps that reflects a local self-correction of a localized overpopulation problem?

Human population is a cycle.

That may well be right.

 

[Rau]

My point: this planet is more than big enough for billions of humans to live if we live a Christ focused life. If we are good to each other, if we are good to the environment, etc; this planet can easily handle twice the population we currently have.

So again, the problem isn’t “overpopulation.” The problem is greed, corruption, a lack of responsibility, self control, etc.

This addresses the “now”, not the extrapolation of global population.

Finally, the Church doesn’t expect each of us to have 10 kids. There are many Catholic couples with only 2 or 3 kids who live very devout lives, use NFP,

And I would have thought the answer to the OP is simply this.

 

[JimG]

Since the beginning of human history, resources have always been finite in theory, and yet resources have always expanded. There is a finite number of I-phones produced, yet the supply expands to meet the demand.

It’s also interesting to note that the most prosperous cities are those with high population densities, while declining populations result in ghost towns.

 

[Rau]

I agree the remarks of Pope Francis are quite accurate and appropriate to the current situation.

 

[Rau]

Is there a way to distinguish God’s punishment in the form of a natural disaster from a natural occurrence which just happens to wreak havoc? If we can’t tell which is which, how can punishment even be recognized as such?

 

[DivineMercy01]

Overpopulation? LOLOL. Drive from Las Vegas to Reno and see that there is NOTHING.

 

[Rau]

Since the beginning of human history, resources have always been finite in theory,

Jim, the planet is finite, and that is certainly fact, not just theory. The earth has a finite carrying capacity though that is different if we vary various parameters. I don’t know the equation, but at some point a sufficiently large population would become “Uncomfortable”. Corrective measures may kick in of course: war, death, starvation, reduced birth rates etc.

 

[Rau]

So many of the saints say all natural disasters are sent by God to punish? Do you believe these saints are correct?

 

[Rau]

So that would make natural disasters evidence of continuing punishment by God for the sin of Adam and Eve - not punishment for the particular people caught in this or that earthquake?

 

[Rau]

Ok, but personally, you go beyond “considering“ and are inclined to see them as punishments. I understand.

 

[vz71]

There is a surprising amount of resistance to thinking about a potential scenario. I’m quite mystified as to why.

Let me try to clarify it.
Inevitably the answer is agenda driven one way or the other.
There is no overpopulation issue…so we must assume it an issue. But wait, where did the issue come from? How did we get there? Is it really overpopulation or is it uneven distribution? How do we know? What is the level of tech? Is food really scarce?

Each of these colors what exactly the reaction will be…and without some answer in advance, we are going nowhere.

 

[Rau]

Earthquakes and the like sometimes harm no one. They predated the time when people lived in those areas. Geological development of the planet is replete with them. I am inclined therefore to think earthquakes are more likely natural occurrences, which is Not to say they are random, but does suggest they are not sent by God to punish people.

I recall those tourists a year or so ago who visited a volcano site in NZ only to have it erupt and many died. I’m not inclined to think God decided those people needed to be punished. Those people did a risky thing (sanctioned by some careless people possibly) and an unfortunate natural occurrence befell them.

 

[CaptFun]

Overpopulation:

(1) the ridiculous notion that GOD doesn’t know what He’s doing.

(2) a high minded sounding excuse for evil people to cloak their previous and/or planned murders in.

(3) a popular heresy among high profile Roman Catholics in politics.

A true/false overpopulation quiz (with no key) can reveal your personality and political leanings:

There are too MANY
(a) ______ in (b) _____.

a) color, plural in b) jail
a) color, pl. in b) charge
a) political party in b) hell
a) ops sex ppl in b) bed
a) unborn ppl in b) utero
a) lefties on b) faculties
a) death row guys b) still

- Make your own kids!
Can apply the rationale to many more things!

< good thing or bad?

- good warning …
bad lifestyle*

• if indeed there IS such a thing!

 

[Montrose]

NOTE: Not every single Dogma, Doctrine or Discipline of the Church is in the CCC. The CCC is a reference book for a great percentage of the Catholic faith. However, it does not go deep into devotions, liturgies, private revelations, etc. It doesn’t even go deep into Public Revelation. It’s a summary, a good summary for sure, but not a complete summary.

It was the same for the Roman Catechism (Catechism of the Council of Trent). It was a good summary, but not a total summary.

Tell me a dogma that is not in the CCC.

 

[ConcernedAmerican]

Overpopulation is a myth. It doesn’t exist. Certain parts of the planet might become overpopulated due to too man y immigrants leaving other parts of the planet and congregating in another past it’s ability to sustain, but the idea that the whole planet will become overpopulated is nonsense. First predicted by Thomas Malthus is 1789, human ingenuity has always overcome.

 

[JimG]

Jim, the planet is finite, and that is certainly fact, not just theory. The earth has a finite carrying capacity though that is different if we vary various parameters. I don’t know the equation, but at some point a sufficiently large population would become “Uncomfortable”. Corrective measures may kick in of course: war, death, starvation, reduced birth rates etc.

Yes, of course. And yet in Kansas some farmers can get paid to not grow crops lest the overabundance drive down prices.

Plus, it takes over five hours to drive across the state, east to west, and you dont see a lot of overpopulation along the way. (“But we’ve been driving four hours! You say we are STILL in Kansas?”)

Anyway, if we fill up the earth, there are still a lot other galaxies to try, and the universe takes about 15 years to traverse, at the speed of light.

 

[Rau]

Anyway, if we fill up the earth, there are still a lot other galaxies to try, and the universe takes about 15 years to traverse, at the speed of light.

Not sure where you got 15 years from, but I regret to advise you that even our little galaxy is far larger than that! The nearest star to our sun would take over 4 years to reach were one able to travel at the speed of light.

 

[BlueKumul]

Who’s talking about galaxies? There is Mars to colonise, right here in our solar system. And who knows, maybe we’ll settle inside asteroids, like in Ian Banks’ culture books.