Catholicism and overpopulation

[Bernoulli]

Then somebody invents the idea of farming.

Farming brought problems of its own, including most of the inequality and unfair distribution of goods. Hunter-gatherers did not have means of storing significant wealth or control large areas of land, so life was more equal. Their health was also much better compared to farmers. Some researchers state that farming was a mistake and if people had known the consequences, they wouldn’t have done it.
Of course, it is a value judgment if a greater population density and the advancements brought by organized societies outweight the problems.

 

[whatistrue]

Yes, context clues are indeed important, as is reading everything written, including the final sentence of a post.

 

[whatistrue]

Just because people think that it is a punishment, that doesn’t mean that it actually is. Can you read the mind of God? I certainly can’t. But I will say this: I believe that God is smart enough to know that for a punishment to be effective, it is important that those being punished know that they are being punished and what they are being punished for. Otherwise it just looks like random bad luck at best, and meanness at worst, and I don’t think that God operates like that.

 

[Rau]

We pray a prayer every Mass for relief from the coronavirus, but that prayer in no part suggests the virus is a product of the wrath of God (sent to punish us).

It is interesting that we use the expression “an act of God” to describe all manner of significant acts of nature. Perhaps this is because God created the natural world and he allows it to play out, or perhaps some other reason?

But I’ve not heard it said (in current times) by the Pope or the Bishops that the pandemic or the regular cyclones striking the US coastline are God’s wrath punishing the unfortunates living in that region of the world. Perhaps those cyclones are God’s way of asking those people to relocate?

Or maybe, like earthquakes, which predates mankind, they are just part of our world and not punishments at all?

 

[whatistrue]

What Scripture and liturgy are clear on is that some people think that He does. Big difference. Some actions attributed to God were, or at least may have been, anthropomorphisms meant to try to make the unknowable more understandable in the context of the culture of the time. Like God walking through the Garden looking for Adam. Do either of us really think that God didn’t know exactly where Adam was, or that He physically walked in the Garden before He was Incarnated? And no, I am not going to go down the rabbit hole of trying to dissect every example verse, or for that matter even one. Much smarter people than I have done a lot of work on that already.

As to the side note, what is the purpose of punishment if not to correct (nowhere did I say heal)? Execution may be justice, but not all justice involves punishment.

 

[whatistrue]

Whoosh.

That was the point being completely missed by you. I am done. Welcome to the Ignore bucket.

 

[Rau]

I do not know what God does in this respect.

What are your views about the cyclones/hurricanes that regularly pummel the USA?

 

[Rau]

A sober position.

 

[phil19034]

phil19034:

NOTE: Not every single Dogma, Doctrine or Discipline of the Church is in the CCC. The CCC is a reference book for a great percentage of the Catholic faith. However, it does not go deep into devotions, liturgies, private revelations, etc. It doesn’t even go deep into Public Revelation. It’s a summary, a good summary for sure, but not a complete summary.

It was the same for the Roman Catechism (Catechism of the Council of Trent). It was a good summary, but not a total summary.

Tell me a dogma that is not in the CCC.

I can’t answer that. However, I said “not every single Dogma, Doctrine or Discipline;” I did not necessarily mean that Dogmas are missing. I was treating the three as one thing, not discussing each one individually.

I don’t know if a defined Dogma is missing.

However, we KNOW that not all Doctrines & Disciplines are listed. A great example is the doctrine of Mediatrix of all Graces. The Catechism DOES mention “… the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix.”

So it says that she has a title that includes “Mediatrix” (which is great) but it doesn’t not specifically say “Mediatrix of all Graces.”

http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/969.htm

The reason for this is because the Catechism was not written to be primarily used by the laity. The laity can use it, of course, but that wasn’t the primary reason. It was written to be used by the national bishop conferences as a reference book when they write their own local catechisms.

Therefore, the Catechism does make some assumptions about the reader sometimes. Again, using “Mediatrix of all Graces” as an example, the Catechism references that Mary does have titles that start with “Mediatrix” but it does not explain why Mary is the Mediatrix of all Graces. This is an area where they assume the clergy using the Catechism knows that “Mediatrix” means.

 

[Montrose]

So it says that she has a title that includes “Mediatrix” (which is great) but it doesn’t not specifically say “Mediatrix of all Graces.”

Come on now. I think having Mediatrix covers it. You are simply clutching at straws to justify your comment. You state not all dogmas are in the CCC but you can’t name a single one so now you come up with this weak example of what you say is a doctrine not in the CCC.
Really???

 

[phil19034]

phil19034:

So it says that she has a title that includes “Mediatrix” (which is great) but it doesn’t not specifically say “Mediatrix of all Graces.”

Come on now. I think having Mediatrix covers it. You are simply clutching at straws to justify your comment. You state not all dogmas are in the CCC but you can’t name a single one so now you come up with this weak example of what you say is a doctrine not in the CCC.
Really???

Look. I’m repeating what I heard form several PRIESTS & a few apologists.

I said I have NO idea if any Dogmas are missing. From what I understand, there isn’t a complete list of Dogmas of the Catholic Church.

I’m not picking a fight with you. I said I was simply treating “Dogma, Doctrine and Discipline” as one thing.

I simply provided a note to all, not just you, that the Catechism is not 100% complete. We do NOT have a single book that lists out every single Dogma, Doctrine & Discipline of the Catholic Church. That was my point.

If you want a better example of a missing doctrine: the doctrine of Mary as Co-Redemptrix is totally missing (also known as The Doctrine of Marian Coredemption).

Why? Because again the Catechism was NOT written to be a complete reference book (though many bishops hoped it would be). It was written to be as complete as possible reference book for bishops writing their own catechisms for NEW Catholics learning the faith.

It’s summarizes the MINIMUM of what Catholics (esp new Catholics) should learn during their time in Catechesis. It’s extremely thorough and covers all of the major teachings and issues. But it’s not 100% exhaustive of everything single belief of the Catholic Church.

 

[GEddie]

The Church would never need, nor ordain such a massive number of priests. Where would the parishes be to sustain them?

 

[Cirdan_XII]

The Church would never need, nor ordain such a massive number of priests. Where would the parishes be to sustain them?

We’re talking about the end of times, right?

A lot of things will be different then.

 

[AlmaRedemptorisMater]

While I don’t think it’s necessary to believe, I don’t see a problem with a belief that God has, even after Christ, sent disasters upon man. Could you explain further why it would be a problem?

 

[redcatholic]

Not only that but there are approved apparitions one of which is Fatima that directly speaks to that.

 

[Montrose]

While I don’t think it’s necessary to believe, I don’t see a problem with a belief that God has, even after Christ, sent disasters upon man. Could you explain further why it would be a problem?

Did I say it was a problem. I said I don’t believe since Christ walked the earth that such a thing has happened. I am happy to be corrected if anyone can tell me any pandemic or other disaster in the past 2000 years was sent by God to punish us. I have tried to research if the Church has declared anything during this period was sent by God to punish us and came up blank. I mean the Church would know wouldn’t it? Certainly before us.
Absence of anything from the Church it is pure speculation.

 

[ralfyman]

Overpopulation is true because human beings have particular needs in terms of energy and material resources, and their surroundings can only provide them in limited amounts. Given that, overpopulation is based on the ff.: the number of individuals, the per capita energy and material resources needed to meet particular needs, and what affects that number (such as lower infant mortality rates) and availability of resources (such as pollution and environmental damage). It may be offset by the use of technology which allow for more resource availability, lower birth rates due to greater prosperity, and so on. At the same time, these gains may be offset by increasing pollution and/or increasing resource consumption per capita.

My understanding is that the Church acknowledges this problem, which is why it supports family planning. However, it is against artificial contraception, which is why it will only support natural family planning.

 

[mythbuster1]

I’ll do you one better; I’ll show you Scripture: “When [Christ] broke open the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fouth living creature cry out, “Come forward.” I loosed and there was a pale green horse. Its ride was named Death, and Hades accompanied him. They were given authority over a quarter of the earth, to kill with sword, famine, and plague, and by means of the beasts of the earth.” -Revelation 6:7-8 Do not subtract from the Book of Revelation, for it is written, “If anyone takes away from the words in this prophetic book, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city described in this book.”

 

[mythbuster1]

A lot of them would serve in monasteries, which are supported by pilgrims and the production of liturgical supplies (and sometimes food).

 

[mythbuster1]

Sure it does. There are many people in Heaven today because they were sentenced to death and repented because of it. The Lord personally canonized St. Dismas because of such a conversion.