Catholicism can and must change, Francis forcefully tells Italian church gathering

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In forceful, comprehensive speech to Italian Catholic church, Pope says Catholicism can and must change ncronline.org/news/vatican/catholicism-can-and-must-change-francis-forcefully-tells-italian-church-gathering

“The situations that we live today therefore bring new challenges that for us sometimes are difficult to understand,” said the pontiff. "This, our time, requires living problems as challenges and not obstacles: the Lord is active in the work of the world.

“You, therefore, go forth to the streets and go to the crossroads: all who you find, call out to them, no one is excluded,” he exhorted. “Wherever you are, never build walls or borders, but meeting squares and field hospitals.”

“I would like an Italian church that is unsettled, always closer to the abandoned, the forgotten, the imperfect,” said Francis. “I desire a happy church with face of a mother, who understands, accompanies, caresses.”

“Dream of this church, believe in it, innovate it with freedom,” exhorted the pope.
 
There is no “Bergoglian plan” at play. In Italy too, all that is needed is the Gospel

The 2015 Church convention in Florence is not a “Bergoglian” version of the one which took place in Loreto in 1985. In his speech to delegates from all dioceses of the Italian Church, Pope Francis did not present any “radical plans” to be implemented, no articulate plan for a “papal revolution”. At the Church convention, titled “In Jesus Christ the new humanism”, the Pope made it clear he did not wish to “present an abstract plan for a ‘new humanism’, a certain idea of man”. He explained that for him, the genuine traits of Christian humanism simply coincide with the “sentiments of Jesus Christ”. He proposed a sort of “evangelical minimalism” in simple terms – looking at Christ’s humanity and giving preferential treatment to the poor – as the right goal for the Italian Church’s mission at present. Essential “simple and practical” words as he himself said. And perhaps it is precisely this that makes them ground-breaking in comparison to the mentality that has dominated the Italian Church in recent decades.

“To their destiny of happiness,” St. Thomas Aquinas wrote in 1200, “men are brought back through the humanity of Christ”. It is only by embracing Christ’s humanity that we start to be happy here on earth. What Francis seems to be saying is that this is first and foremost what the Italian Church needs to be reminding Italian men and women of today. Because “it is only by contemplating the face of Jesus who died and rose again that we can put back together our humanity fragmented by the hardships of life or by sin”. He asked pastors not to be “preachers of complex doctrines”, but simply “proclaimers of Christ who died and rose again for us” because “there is nothing more solid, profound and certain than this announcement”. He suggested which distinctive traits allows us to tell whether and when the Church shares “the same sentiments as Jesus”: the traits of humility and commitment to the happiness of others and the beatitudes which blossom in those who are embraced by the humanity of the Son of God. Or the preferential treatment given to the poor, the needy and the small. Or steering clear of two imposters that always try to poison Christianity “from the inside”: “Pelagianism” (which brings us to have faith “in structures, organisations, and plans that are perfect because abstract”) and Gnostic impulses, spiritualist and subjectivist tendencies that promise salvation through “reasoning and knowledge”, whilst locking the individual inside the suffocating “immanence of their own reason and feelings”.

vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en/the-vatican/detail/articolo/francesco-firenze-44574/
 
gilliam said:
In forceful, comprehensive speech to Italian Catholic church, Pope says Catholicism can and must change ncronline.org/news/vatican/catholicism-can-and-must-change-francis-forcefully-tells-italian-church-gathering

“The situations that we live today therefore bring new challenges that for us sometimes are difficult to understand,” said the pontiff. "This, our time, requires living problems as challenges and not obstacles: the Lord is active in the work of the world.

“You, therefore, go forth to the streets and go to the crossroads: all who you find, call out to them, no one is excluded,” he exhorted. “Wherever you are, never build walls or borders, but meeting squares and field hospitals.”

“I would like an Italian church that is unsettled, always closer to the abandoned, the forgotten, the imperfect,” said Francis. “I desire a happy church with face of a mother, who understands, accompanies, caresses.”

“Dream of this church, believe in it, innovate it with freedom,” exhorted the pope.
Click to expand...
Bravo, Papa Francisco!

We shall see if it falls on deaf ears, however. Even here, among ourselves, the CAF regulars, there is an aversion to “go forth to the streets”. We all to often sit comfortably within the walls of our parish chapel, more concerned with who we think is worthy of sitting in the pews than opening the doors for "the abandoned, the forgotten, [and even more so], the imperfect.

Lord, grant me the courage, humility and wisdom you gave to St. Francis of Assisi, so I too may kiss the leper. Amen
 
Neofight said:
Bravo, Papa Francisco!

We shall see if it falls on deaf ears, however. Even here, among ourselves, the CAF regulars, there is an aversion to “go forth to the streets”. We all to often sit comfortably within the walls of our parish chapel, more concerned with who we think is worthy of sitting in the pews than opening the doors for "the abandoned, the forgotten, [and even more so], the imperfect.

Lord, grant me the courage, humility and wisdom you gave to St. Francis of Assisi, so I too may kiss the leper. Amen
Click to expand...
Oh, I am not sure how much you need to worry about any aversion in Catholics to hitting the streets…😃 I am definitely not getting that vibe.
 
Pope Francis offered a sweeping summary of his vision for the Catholic Church on Tuesday, telling a gathering of Italian Catholics in Florence that the Church must be open to change while rejecting a “controlling, hard, and prescriptive” style.

“… It is not useful to search for solutions in conservatism or fundamentalism,” the pope said. “We are not living an era of change, but a change of era.”

Christian doctrine, he added, “is not a closed system incapable of generating questions, doubts, queries, but it’s alive, and able to unsettle, animate.” Doctrine, Francis said, “has a face that isn’t rigid, a body that moves and develops, it has tender flesh: that of Jesus Christ.”

cruxnow.com/church/2015/11/10/pope-francis-says-catholics-must-be-open-to-change/?s_campaign=crux:email:daily
 
gilliam said:
In forceful, comprehensive speech to Italian Catholic church, Pope says Catholicism can and must change ncronline.org/news/vatican/catholicism-can-and-must-change-francis-forcefully-tells-italian-church-gathering

“The situations that we live today therefore bring new challenges that for us sometimes are difficult to understand,” said the pontiff. "This, our time, requires living problems as challenges and not obstacles: the Lord is active in the work of the world.

“You, therefore, go forth to the streets and go to the crossroads: all who you find, call out to them, no one is excluded,” he exhorted. “Wherever you are, never build walls or borders, but meeting squares and field hospitals.”

“I would like an Italian church that is unsettled, always closer to the abandoned, the forgotten, the imperfect,” said Francis. “I desire a happy church with face of a mother, who understands, accompanies, caresses.”

“Dream of this church, believe in it, innovate it with freedom,” exhorted the pope.
Click to expand...
In order to do this, parishes need to be given more freedom, in a different direction to diocesan offices. At least where I come from. In this present set up, the Church is too much like a well run “company” - the word used by the Pope to express what he doesn’t want the Church to become.

In order for parishioners to feel they are going out but still connected to the root, the diocesan offices need to be for admin. only, rather than the hub for everything. I think it is deeply wrong and it stifles the creative inspirations of the Holy Spirit for the dioceses to be given ‘control’ over creative outlets. My pet peev, at present, are these diocesan set-ups, but not in their entirety but rather the obstacles they present - between Bishop and parishioners.

It is not the professionalism of diocesan workers that should be emphasised but the mission of the people. The present set up is so wrong, IMO.

This can only be changed by those who can change this - the Pope and Magisterium.
 
friardchips said:
In order to do this, parishes need to be given more freedom, in a different direction to diocesan offices…
Click to expand...
So if your parish wanted to start up, say, a street evangelization team, or a group to visit the hospitalized, your parish would have to establish that through the diocese?

Is that what you are saying?
 
friardchips said:
In order to do this, parishes need to be given more freedom, in a different direction to diocesan offices. At least where I come from. In this present set up, the Church is too much like a well run “company” - the word used by the Pope to express what he doesn’t want the Church to become.

In order for parishioners to feel they are going out but still connected to the root, the diocesan offices need to be for admin. only, rather than the hub for everything. I think it is deeply wrong and it stifles the creative inspirations of the Holy Spirit for the dioceses to be given ‘control’ over creative outlets. My pet peev, at present, are these diocesan set-ups, but not in their entirety but rather the obstacles they present - between Bishop and parishioners.

It is not the professionalism of diocesan workers that should be emphasised but the mission of the people. The present set up is so wrong, IMO.

This can only be changed by those who can change this - the Pope and Magisterium.
Click to expand...
I’m not entirely sure what you mean. I’ve worked for the church but I’m in a different country now.

I think the change has to come from each and every one of us. It’s disconcerting to find people on these threads who are more than ready and willing to damn one to hell. The level of legalism is frightening. I don’t think Jesus was a lawyer, ready to jail everyone, I think He brought mercy and understanding. Maybe it’s new Christians, I don’t know, all gung ho with the new information they’ve acquired and haven’t yet matured to add humility to the knowledge.

Maybe before learning theology and doctrine and exegesis and apologetics, we should stop and read the beatitudes in Mathew 5. After we know them really well, maybe we could try to speak to others about God and join in edifying discussions.

No matter what the church does, it’s always US out there on the “streets”.

I pray that we show the same amount of mercy Jesus demonstrated to sinners.

“Wherever you are, never build walls or borders.” Amen to that.

Fran
 
frangiuliano115 said:
I’m not entirely sure what you mean. I’ve worked for the church but I’m in a different country now.

I think the change has to come from each and every one of us. ** It’s disconcerting to find people on these threads who are more than ready and willing to damn one to hell**. The level of legalism is frightening. I don’t think Jesus was a lawyer, ready to jail everyone, I think He brought mercy and understanding. Maybe it’s new Christians, I don’t know, all gung ho with the new information they’ve acquired and haven’t yet matured to add humility to the knowledge.

Maybe before learning theology and doctrine and exegesis and apologetics, we should stop and read the beatitudes in Mathew 5. After we know them really well, maybe we could try to speak to others about God and join in edifying discussions.

No matter what the church does, it’s always US out there on the “streets”.

I pray that we show the same amount of mercy Jesus demonstrated to sinners.

“Wherever you are, never build walls or borders.” Amen to that.

Fran
Click to expand...
Edited.
 
Brendan said:
So if your parish wanted to start up, say, a street evangelization team, or a group to visit the hospitalized, your parish would have to establish that through the diocese?

Is that what you are saying?
Click to expand...
There are parish goings on but much of the stuff does not flow easily through to the parish. And there is work which could be shared out for all parish members that only circulates within the diocese. What comes from the Bishops has to find ways more directly on through to parishes, IMO - I am allowed an opinion, being a Christian (maybe not a very good one) too, I think?! I stand by this opinion from personal experience of where I live.
 
gilliam said:
Pope Francis offered a sweeping summary of his vision for the Catholic Church on Tuesday, telling a gathering of Italian Catholics in Florence that the Church must be open to change while rejecting a “controlling, hard, and prescriptive” style.

“… It is not useful to search for solutions in conservatism or fundamentalism,” the pope said. “We are not living an era of change, but a change of era.”

Christian doctrine, he added, “is not a closed system incapable of generating questions, doubts, queries, but it’s alive, and able to unsettle, animate.” Doctrine, Francis said, “has a face that isn’t rigid, a body that moves and develops, it has tender flesh: that of Jesus Christ.”

cruxnow.com/church/2015/11/10/pope-francis-says-catholics-must-be-open-to-change/?s_campaign=crux:email:daily
Click to expand...
Is he saying Church doctrine must change to fit with the times? Is truth not immutable? What exactly does he mean that Doctrine is not a closed system? If we are free to question doctrines, why should we bind mens’ consciences to them?
 
frangiuliano115 said:
It’s disconcerting to find people on these threads who are more than ready and willing to damn one to hell. The level of legalism is frightening.
Click to expand...
Fran, legalism? Really? LOL. I sometimes shake my head over what people worry over, not only for themselves and their own practice of the faith, but examining other people’s known or imagined sins.

I saw the question in ‘Ask an Apologist’: Can I go for a vacation during Advent?

To me, that is in the category of ‘Do I commit a sin if I eat Cheerios for breakfast?’ Has it come to this? Legalism indeed.

And if you add up the number of threads on sexual sins - real or imagined - it would outnumber any other post on this site. I worry if that is what the faith is to people - judging what other people do sexually.

Anyway, bringing this back to the VERY profound words that the Pope spoke, I am so grateful for this man. And he isn’t even my Pope! ‘Christianity is not a closed system.’ Indeed, it cannot be closed - the doors have to be open and the invitation to the Table has to go to one and all, without conditions or judgment.

He is using words that hit hard.
 
ComplineSanFran said:
Fran, legalism? Really? LOL. I sometimes shake my head over what people worry over, not only for themselves and their own practice of the faith, but examining other people’s known or imagined sins.

I saw the question in ‘Ask an Apologist’: Can I go for a vacation during Advent?

To me, that is in the category of ‘Do I commit a sin if I eat Cheerios for breakfast?’ Has it come to this? Legalism indeed.

And if you add up the number of threads on sexual sins - real or imagined - it would outnumber any other post on this site. I worry if that is what the faith is to people - judging what other people do sexually.

**Anyway, bringing this back to the VERY profound words that the Pope spoke, I am so grateful for this man. And he isn’t even my Pope! ‘Christianity is not a closed system.’ Indeed, it cannot be closed - the doors have to be open and the invitation to the Table has to go to one and all, without conditions or judgment. **

He is using words that hit hard.
Click to expand...
To be fair, I think this part is what Fran was saying.
 
Christian discipline is an open system but I did not think that doctrine could be changed…
 
What is the distinction between a dogma and a doctrine? I didn’t think the catechism distinguished between the two. I was taught in RCIA that there are small “t” traditions and big “T” traditions. Only small t tradition can change. If doctrine can change, then how much? Can one doctrine be deemed false that was taught as true for centuries? If that isn’t a rupture in the entire tradition of the church, I don’t know what else is. Give me a concrete example of a doctrine that can be changed.
 
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