Catholicism & History

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Boomer_Sooner

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Hey everyone! I posted this in the ‘ask an apologist’ section, but I wanted to hear what you guys had to say about this too…

Recently I had a conversation with a good Protestant friend of mine, and one of his main objections to Catholicism was that the Catholic Church had “changed and distorted history” throughout the centuries.

He went on to say that since the Catholic monks were the only ones who could read/write and record the facts of the world, they distorted everything to a pro-Catholic stance. Thus all of the western world’s history is completely biased, etc, etc.

What do you guys have to say about all of this?
 
Did he consider hte fact that this would be a sin of lying and sned the writer to hell?

What specifically does he think we are “lying” about?
 
They were not the only ones who could read and write. Also, there are no other non-Catholic writings during this time which claim specifically that any monks were laboring to try to distort history. While their writings may have a Catholic bias, that does not mean the history is false.
 
Most of the History passed down through monastic copying was of first source material, the histories of Plutarch for instance. These works were copied verbatim, and I think that most modern historians would agree with this since they have ways of studing manuscripts and by the author’s style can date a work.

In those cases were the monks themselves have written the works, your friend might be able to make more of an arguement, but there is no substantiation against the works what were simply copied.
 
I guess you could start with the fact he should throw out his bible then. Those wylie Monks and Priests were the one’s who transcribed it and the Catholic Church is the one who promoted it and preserved it from day one. So, if what he says is true he best toss out the rest of his bible. 😉 Might as well. It must be all hype. He can start another Protestant tradition based on an old one. In the early years the Protestants tossed out 7 books because of those wylie monks. He might as well finish the job if what he says is true. 😃

Seriously though, hard to tell what to say to one who has NO knowledge of church history. Pick a spot and jump in I guess.
 
Catholic Cadet:
Ask him about black helicopters.
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You know, I shot one of those down in my back yard about six years ago with a Soviet-made surface-to-air missile.

It crashed on a nearby hillside, but before I could board it and take the crew prisoner, it vanished—just evaporated into thin air.

Almost…like…it…had…never…existed… :bigyikes:
 
Boomer Sooner,
Boomer Sooner:
He went on to say that since the Catholic monks were the only ones who could read/write and record the facts of the world, they distorted everything to a pro-Catholic stance.
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Did you ask your Protestant friend for some proof other then the fact that Catholic monks can read and write? If you ask me; if he accuses the Church with that crime on the sole basis of the monks’ abilities to read and write, he would be committing a grave sin of injustice.

Miguel.
 
Thanks for the help, fellas!! I’ll talk to him again and let you guys know what he said! 👍
 
Domini Canis:
Did you ask your Protestant friend for some proof other then the fact that Catholic monks can read and write?
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Using that standard, then ask your protestant friend how he didn’t change history since he can read or write? 🙂
 
Boomer Sooner:
Hey everyone! I posted this in the ‘ask an apologist’ section, but I wanted to hear what you guys had to say about this too…

Recently I had a conversation with a good Protestant friend of mine, and one of his main objections to Catholicism was that the Catholic Church had “changed and distorted history” throughout the centuries.

He went on to say that since the Catholic monks were the only ones who could read/write and record the facts of the world, they distorted everything to a pro-Catholic stance. Thus all of the western world’s history is completely biased, etc, etc.

What do you guys have to say about all of this?
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Are to beleieve that all historians were catholic monks…? How about orthodox ones do they no also present the same history?
 
Perhaps another question would be this: if Catholic monks altered all historical evidence, how can he know that it was altered? Did he see white out on the pages? Has he a contact that has repented of this evil act and is now state’s evidence? Let’s be honest here, the people who believe that are in a very frieghtening position. At some point they have seen that the Catholic Church is the Church of the Upper Room, that we are the true CHurch of Christ. This is a true threat to all they know and believe, and they do not have the grace to take the next step yet. Perhaps the best way to help is to pray that their learning can lead to their conversion.
 
First what your friend needs to realize is that in the beginning of Christianity there was no Bible. There was what we have now as the old testament, but the actual canon of the Bible was not finished until the fourth century. Everything was word of mouth handed down from the apostles, not to mention that that was how things were done in the days before Christ because a lot of people couldn’t read. So I guess then he should blame the Jews also because only certian ones could write. And just look at any old world history book and you will find the Catholic Church was the first Christian Church so of course it is going to be Catholic.

Just my opinion,
Shari
 
It’s more a question of what is “history” than what is the Catholic influence on its recording.

The cynical view of it is from George Santayana: History is a pack of lies about events that never happened told by people who weren’t there.

Few events in history are recorded with only one point of view.

One “story” long imagined to be a distortion, blatant Catholic propaganda against the pagans of the Incan Empire to justify the suppression of their benign religion was the practice of “Capacocha”.

Google that word. Anti-Catholics/Pro-pagans long argued this was the product of the imagination of the monks. (A great proof text for your friend)

They have to find another example. Archeological evidence turned up that matched exactly the torture and infanticide described by the monks.
 
History is the most bias of the liberal arts, and reflects the viewpoints of the writers by its very nature.

Your friend has a point, the Catholic monks did write history from their viewpoints, but those are the only viewpoints they had.

The view of history for example, of Diocletian, is quite different for a Christian who would emphasize his persecution of the church as opposed to someone with different interests who might focus in on Diocletian’s far reaching reorganization of the empire.

What’s important in this figure’s life is different to different individuals based on their world viewpoint.
 
Read the early church fathers…catholic to the core from the beginning…
 
If catholic monks had a bias view of history, then who has an ‘objective’ one? To what can you compare one historical work or another to verify its ‘objectivity’? How can we be certain that what monks knew about history that occured 400 year before them, is less than what we know about the same events that could be as much as 2000 years before us? It could be very arrogant to assume we know more about history than those writers of our history.

Tell your friend the best way, the only truly objective way, to understand history is to see it from many angles, and that would mean the Catholic angle in his case. If he’s really interested in the truth, it should not bother him to read catholic ‘views’ of history. And reading a protestant’s view of the catholic view doesn’t count…lead him to actual catholic texts. Afterall, how can he say that they’ve ‘lied’ if he hasn’t actually analyzed it himself?

In my experience, most won’t do that. They won’t even try to see other’s points of view because in many cases they’ve made up their mind and are only using such excuses to justify their preconceptions. In those cases that some have taken the challenge and looked into the Church themsleves, they’ve ended up converting. 👍

Be ever gentle and patient my friend, pax.
 
First rule of thumb, don’t believe it if it comes from a protestant. Make them prove it with facts. this will end most arguments. They have been force fed lies for 500 years now. There is a saying that if you say something often enough it will become fact. Your friend is proof.🙂

Why would the Catholic Church change history? They were the only Christian Church before 1517? Unless of course you ask a Baptist, many of them claim the original church was Baptist and prove it from history?:whacky: Of course, intelligent Baptist authors claim this absurd too.

My point is this, people can and do sometimes lie. But our Church is dedicated to the truth. Is theirs?

Malachi4U

The truth is out there! Look for it!
 
I can certainly appreciate your problem. I know many Protestants who are actually espousing and being taught a “Protestant/Fundamentalist/Anti-Catholic” view of history. Every Protestant I approach I ask them who organized and approved the Biblical canon? They simply answer “the Holy Spirit.” They won’t even acknowledge the Church Councils whish affirmed the canon. They absolutely deny the fact that Martin Luther deliberately removed books(1&2 Maccabees for example) and attempted to remove others (Letter of St. James) from the Bible.These people are completely ignorant of their own Reformation/Protestant history.
Also, I am appaled to hear that the Catholic Church is simply a combination of pagan Sun worship and Christianity. The Catholic religion was a product of the Emperor Constantine’s efforts to unite his empire so he combined paganism and Christianity. This latter view is actually being taught in Protestant or Fundamentalist Christian Schools.

We are in quite a battle.
 
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