Catholicism is making me go insane

[Faustina]

Hermione:

Thanks everyone for your kind replies.
God could end all this by simply coming to me, reassuring me of His existence and of His love for me. Or He could modify my mind to take this living Hell away.

I’m sorry if this offends anyone, but this religion has devastated everything about my person and my life.

Look at this way. God has come to you. Thru the posters on this thread. Friends and people who care are angels on Earth sent from God when you cry out. You have cried out and people here have responded. God has come to you.

 

[BibleReader]

Hi, Hermione.

The Faith is not more true if you commit to it, or less true if you abandon it. You can’t turn it “on” and “off” like a faucet.

I suspect that the extent to which the Faith is difficult for you is in your head.

At one point in your first post you talk about how the Faith forces you to choose between “leaving the man I love, burning in Hell, or having a bunch of children who will overwhelm me to the point of insanity and make my life miserable.”

Is this possibly at the nub of all of your concerns? Artificial birth control? In other words, if the new pope issues an encyclical saying, “We were wrong! ABC is A-OK!,” then all of a sudden there’d be no problem?

First of all, the rule against use of contraceptives is not a “Catholic” rule, but rather Natural Law. It applies to all religions, because the rule is already built into the human conscience.

There is actually some objective proof of this: If the rule against use of contraceptives is built into the human conscience, then something should go wrong if conscience is violated, because that’s what conscience does – it protects good order, and life. When The Pill was first approved by the FDA, supporters predicted that it would strengthen marriage – all of that bond-reinforcing sex, freed of the “heat” of child care! Marital Heaven, right?

Wrong. As The Pill popularized birth control psychology more and more in the West, the divorce rate steadily climbed. The exact opposite of what was predicted occurred.

The divorce rate among NFP users is a teensy weensy bit above zero.

Is that a coincidence? – that the divorce rate, the rate of marital disruption, the rate of disorder in the lives of children of the marriage, should end up huge in those families characterized by use of ABC, but tiny in those families characterized by use of NFP?

Speaking of NFP, I and my Jewish wife have been using it for more than twenty years, very successfully. The intimacy in our marriage is wonderful.
The bottom line to this part of the discussion is that your having to choose between “leaving the man I love, burning in Hell, or having a bunch of children who will overwhelm me to the point of insanity and make my life miserable” is illusory.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

rayne89:

Alan, on other threads Hermione has said she has a history of mental illness. That she has been is a pyschiatric hospital before, which was much before she even had the idea of becoming a Catholic. She had a very negative experience with treatment and now will not seek help. She only became Catholic this Easter.

Thank you. That’s good information. I also have quite a bit to say about the way psychiatrists treat mentally ill patients. The best description I ever heard on this, a few months after being involuntarily locked up myself without even so much as speaking to a doctor, is an audio file by Alan Watts called “On Being God” part I and part II. It explains how the current day psychiatrist is regarded by society as the arbiter of what’s normal, and how they are given pretty much arbitrary powers.

This does not mean, btw, that I’m advocating the elimination of psychiatrists. They do a lot of wonderful service.

The Church has keys to much better healing power than any psychiatrist – that is the Holy Spirit, the Divine Therapist. The problem is that mainstream Catholicism does not yet embrace contemplative techniques that can lead to interior silence, thus inviting the Holy Spirit to perform the healing. Many Catholics are not familiar with all this, though, because they are so focused on ritual, tradition, and rules. This is where a good spiritual director can do a person all the good in the world. The Holy Spirit can and will heal a person of a lifetime of emotional wounds, even those inflicted by the Church.

Alan

 

[Alterum]

st_felicity:

Your post seems to support her decision to leave the Church “for her sanity”. How are you supporting Hermione?

There is an odd subtext going on here…

I’m supporting Hermione because it’s the only thing I can do. I can’t explain the entire situation here, but, despite the appearance of an “odd subtext,” there is no odd subtext.

I should also point out that Hermione hasn’t renounced Catholicism. She just “left.” She can’t think about it, can’t go to church, etc., without getting physically sick. If she thinks about it (especially if she has any thoughts that hell is a real place), she will drive herself crazy. To her, it would be better if none of it were true.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

st_felicity:

ooooOOOOOoo…a Dare! Okay…I’l try…

I already like your style. You are not afraid to dig into it, but still are able to keep it light.

There is a problem here with your analogy…

Let’s say your store is a Bakery…You, the crazy son of Baker Jones hangs out at Jones’ Bakery…Just down the street is Smith’s Bakery with very nice people who don’t punch anyone in the face–IN FACT Smith’s Bakery uses only the BEST ingredients and take extreme care to follow the proper recipes when baking…Jones’ Bakery would cut corners and use artificial flavoring–sometimes it’s hard for patrons to tell the difference, but the long time customers know and ALWAYS go to Smith’s…The patron who you punched would be foolish to return to your store when a much better bakery is nearby…and certainly your patron would be extra foolish to go to Bob’s Hardware to try and buy his bread!

I agree with the conclusion you are making based on his analogy. It doesn’t seem to speak to my exact point, though. Your analogy would fit my point better if it was the Smith bakery with the crazy son that punches people. Further, he takes them in the back room to do the punching and denies any wrongdoing. Maybe I’d better add the caveat that this punching is done selectively, so most people can get in or out without getting hurt unless they happen to be wearing a shirt of blouse with blue stripes.

Most patrons, if they knew the truth, would be perfectly happy with the Smith bakery, and figures anybody who goes to the Jones store must be uninformed. Those few who were abused, though, are dismissed by the other patrons because they refuse to believe that anything about the Smith bakery is flawed. Their experience, after all, has been lovely so they figure anybody who has a bad experience must have brought it on themselves.

My point was more about the store refusing to take responsibility for the violence and the happy patrons who shun those who were hurt because they just can’t imagine Smith doing such a thing. Your point about the sanity of patrons added another interesting dimension to it.

I’ve actually seen kind of thing happen. Once about 20 years ago I paid for a CD with a $20, and the girl gave me change for a five. She made a mistake, and I understand that, since somebody had written “5.00” in the margins of the bill. I also knew I could prove it, because she put the $20 bill on top of the stack of fives before she closed the drawer. I insisted on my change, and suggested she opens the drawer and looks. She was so sure of herself she refused. About then the customers behind me started jeering, grumbling, and telling me to get out of their way. I said that I was going to stand right there until I got my change, and that all she had to do is look in the cash drawer. When she threatened to call the police, I told her I would be happy to explain this to the police because then I would get my other $15.00.

I asked the girl if she really thought it was unsafe to open the cash drawer in front of me with all these customers who are mad at me. She finally decided to open the drawer without calling the police, realized her mistake, gave me my change with no apologies whatsoever. The people behind me yelled stuff like “FINALLY!” at me as I left the store.

People seem to believe in establishments and the people working in them – above and beyond any individual without an organized group on their side – to the point that they will deny tangible evidence right in front of them.

Alan

 

[AlanFromWichita]

st_felicity:

In Hermione’s original post she said this:
Your post seems to support her decision to leave the Church “for her sanity”. How are you supporting Hermione?

There is an odd subtext going on here…

You bring up a good point.

When I hear people who are afraid of something that is about to happen, or maybe has already started to happen, they sometimes feel there is no way out. Thus accepting it as an unfortunate fact, they then prophesy it. At a subtle level, that could be construed as a prayer for the bad thing to actually happen.

When I read this, I understood Alterum to be expressing a fear, rather than proposing a solution. Perhaps he could increase his faith by avoiding such wording, in favor of something like, “I’m afraid she might leave…” or “she has already decided to leave…” or something like that. This may help him keep what strength he has to be a better support.

Alan

 

[rayne89]

AlanFromWichita:

You bring up a good point.

When I hear people who are afraid of something that is about to happen, or maybe has already started to happen, they sometimes feel there is no way out. Thus accepting it as an unfortunate fact, they then prophesy it. At a subtle level, that could be construed as a prayer for the bad thing to actually happen.

When I read this, I understood Alterum to be expressing a fear, rather than proposing a solution. Perhaps he could increase his faith by avoiding such wording, in favor of something like, “I’m afraid she might leave…” or “she has already decided to leave…” or something like that. This may help him keep what strength he has to be a better support.

Alan

She told him she has decided to leave it is not his wording it is hers. I have been personal messaging with Hermione for quite some time. They both need our prayers.

 

[itsjustdave1988]

Hermione:

P.S. I just measured my blood pressure and it’s 160/90 when normally it is 110/60. Great faith.

Ummmm… I believe it is your MISUNDERSTANDING of the Great Faith that is causing you grief, not the Great Faith.

I’m perfectly content with the Great Faith of Catholicism, because I know the Lord is my shepherd and there is nothing I shall want, he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness, and I shall fear no evil. Surely goodness and mercy will follow me all the days of my life, and I shall dwell in the house of the Lord forever.

I recommend you seek a spiritual advisor. He can help you understand the faith and get you to hear the Word of God expressed by the Catholic Church, “Be not afraid.”

 

[st_felicity]

Alterum:

I’m supporting Hermione because it’s the only thing I can do. I can’t explain the entire situation here, but, despite the appearance of an “odd subtext,” there is no odd subtext.

I should also point out that Hermione hasn’t renounced Catholicism. She just “left.” She can’t think about it, can’t go to church, etc., without getting physically sick. If she thinks about it (especially if she has any thoughts that hell is a real place), she will drive herself crazy. To her, it would be better if none of it were true.

I understand. Her wording in the OP seemed to imply that she might have to choose between you OR the Church, but now I think what you are saying is that you AND the Church are a package deal and it’s either you & Church OR sanity. I’m sure it’s very complicated but maybe her choice to join the Church was not for the right reasons–people often do the right thing for the wrong reasons just as they can do the wrong thing for right reasons. It probably is best to let it rest, but please don’t let it die–Hermione–you are in the right place even if it doesn’t feel right at the moment.

I would suggest to you, Hermione, to continue to go to Sunday Mass (or Sat. Vigil Mass)–go late and leave early if you must, but receive Him in the Eucharist–because He is spiritual medicine. Don’t worry about how your dressed or ANYTHING–don’t fret about it before you go, just show up just before communion, wait in the vestibule 'till the lines form for reception, say a prayer of truth–short and to the point–maybe “I’m here, Lord, help me.” Receive and leave…Thank him for his mercy and then don’t worry (or try not to) if you don’t think of it again until the next Sunday…in fact, If you don’t think of it be grateful for the rest He has granted you!. Perhaps, eventually, you will want to come a little earlier, or stay a little later–let God lead you–He, above all, knows what you’re capable of you do not have to prove anything to Him–and if anyone gives you a hard time saying “good” Catholics don’t come late and leave early–ignore them–they either don’t know your difficulty, or they don’t care and are trying to appear pious. You most definitely will not burn in Hell for doing your best no matter what it looks like to earthly men. I wish you peace!

 

[jimmy]

Hermione:

I don’t understand how you people can be Catholic and sane. At this point, I feel like this faith is destroying my happiness, my sanity, and for that matter my whole life.

Thinking about God, and sin, and Hell is making me feel naseous, overwhelmed, and like the only way out is nonexistence (which is not an alternative in Catholicism).

I can’t even believe that there was once a time when I was happy, free, and at peace.

I can’t even feel safe about my future. I am supposed to choose between leaving the man I love, burning in Hell, or having a bunch of children who will overwhelm me to the point of insanity and make my life miserable. And even if I stay alone and not worry about this, I’ll still be in constant fear of sin, and Hell, and all of that.

I feel like I will never have anything but torment. And on top of that God will probably burn me because I’ve made statements that expressed hatred for Catholicism.

In addition, Catholicism might not even be true and I am killing myself for nothing.

At this point, I am really hoping I’ll lose faith and gain SANITY.

It’s so hard to believe that the teachings of a supposedly loving God can do this to a human being. Where’s the love and peace and joy? It’s not like I"m an immoral person. I was doing my best to follow Jesus’ teachings. All I got in return was the destruction of my whole being.

P.S. I just measured my blood pressure and it’s 160/90 when normally it is 110/60. Great faith.

You can’t be too scrupulous over your faith. Try not to worry too much about what you said about Catholicism before. You can’t change the past, so leave it in the past. Try to focus on the present and the future.

I don’t know why you would have to leave the man you love.

Just try to do what you know is right. If you do that, and you are repentant for your sins, then you have nothing to worry about. God will not forsake you.

 

[st_felicity]

I agree with the conclusion you are making based on his analogy. It doesn’t seem to speak to my exact point, though. Your analogy would fit my point better if it was the Smith bakery with the crazy son that punches people.

just so I understand the analogy properly…

Jones’ Bakery = Catholic Church in parish A–Appears as if everything is proper, but because of the Crazy Son’s presence, there is a problem.

Crazy Punching Son Jones’ = Abusive priest or other person in a position of trust in Church A

Smiths’ Bakery = Catholic Church in Parish B–Holy, traditional, and welcoming–follows Church authority and is filled with good people–Specifically, there is no Crazy Son.

Hardware Store= Protestant Church

If this is correct, I don’t get what you mean having Smith’s Bakery with a crazy son–by definition they are Holy and Godserving.

OTHERWISE: if you do mean hidden crazy sons in all of the bakeries everywhere…you are saying Catholicism has institutionalized pedophelia (or whatever the …phelia…is it hebephelia???) Which is just a ridiculous (and scandalously hateful) claim.

I guess this confusion is what makes analogies imperfect…but I like 'em…it’s like a logic problem…

so most people can get in or out without getting hurt unless they happen to be wearing a shirt of blouse with blue stripes.

I don’t understand the blue striped blouse thing???

Those few who were abused, though, are dismissed by the other patrons because they refuse to believe that anything about the Smith bakery is flawed. Their experience, after all, has been lovely so they figure anybody who has a bad experience must have brought it on themselves.

Ah…this leaps to a conclusion and generalizes all of Smith’s patrons–That is not fair, nor is it accurate.

My point was more about the store refusing to take responsibility for the violence and the happy patrons who shun those who were hurt because they just can’t imagine Smith doing such a thing.

I believe Smith’s Bakery HAS taken responsibility–and IS making much effort to improve “service”–But you can’t refuse to send flour to EVERY bakery, because of some crazy sons on the Jones Bakeries Franchise (USA Churches)

Your point about the sanity of patrons added another interesting dimension to it.

I didn’t say “sanity” I said “foolish” and I certainly don’t mean to imply any fault on the patron’s part–I meant that you do not quit eating bread (literally the Body and Blood in the species of bread) because a Baker’s son punched you…but it would be foolish NOT to avoid that particular Baker’s son in the future…

Ok–is everyone totally confused???

 

[pnewton]

rayne89:

Alan, on other threads Hermione has said she has a history of mental illness. That she has been is a pyschiatric hospital before, which was much before she even had the idea of becoming a Catholic. She had a very negative experience with treatment and now will not seek help. She only became Catholic this Easter.

For those who need psychiatric medication, having a bad experience is almost a norm rather than an exception. Often the only way a physician has of knowing what is most effective is by trial. If a physiological problem exists, do not give up because of one (or several) bad med combos. Just quickly get back and have the meds or dosages changed. I have seen a lot of nonfunctional people finally find the right thing that works for them and vastly improve their lives.

This is a very practical matter we can all pray for for this woman, and that in the mean time, she bears this cross well.

 

[robert_ambrose]

Hermione:

I don’t understand how you people can be Catholic and sane. At this point, I feel like this faith is destroying my happiness, my sanity, and for that matter my whole life.

Thinking about God, and sin, and Hell is making me feel naseous, overwhelmed, and like the only way out is nonexistence (which is not an alternative in Catholicism).

I can’t even believe that there was once a time when I was happy, free, and at peace.

I can’t even feel safe about my future. I am supposed to choose between leaving the man I love, burning in Hell, or having a bunch of children who will overwhelm me to the point of insanity and make my life miserable. And even if I stay alone and not worry about this, I’ll still be in constant fear of sin, and Hell, and all of that.

I feel like I will never have anything but torment. And on top of that God will probably burn me because I’ve made statements that expressed hatred for Catholicism.

In addition, Catholicism might not even be true and I am killing myself for nothing.

At this point, I am really hoping I’ll lose faith and gain SANITY.

It’s so hard to believe that the teachings of a supposedly loving God can do this to a human being. Where’s the love and peace and joy? It’s not like I"m an immoral person. I was doing my best to follow Jesus’ teachings. All I got in return was the destruction of my whole being.

P.S. I just measured my blood pressure and it’s 160/90 when normally it is 110/60. Great faith.

One of the senses God gave us was anger, so tell him how you are feeling , sit back ,get one of your children to make you a cup of tea and try and relax. Peace

 

[jman507]

Hi Harmione

Take heart. Your Lord cares about you very much. You’ve come a long way. It seems your trying to be good, trying to be worthy. The only thing your finding is that your not very good and not very worthy. Oh sure, we say ‘though I’m not worthy to receive you, only say the word and I shall be healed.’ We don’t always think that. The greatest gifts the Lord gives us, is the gift of faith, hope, and charity. We must have faith and the increadible or it is no virtue. We must have hope in the hopeless or it is no virtue. We must have charity for those that do not deaserve it, or it is no virtue.

I doubt we will ever have the amount of faith, hope, and charity that God would like, but when we trust him and ask him. The Lord wants us with him, even more than a mother wants to care for her baby. The Lord also lets us decide. The Lord though is always jump out there to help us. Reach out. The freedom that Catholisim will give you, is that you will never be able to repay back God. He will pardon the unpardonable if you asked to be pardoned. Having the freedom from the slavery of past sins, then you can focus on living the virtues and the beattitudes.

You’ll be in my thoughts and prayers. Amen.

 

[Alterum]

Thank you everyone for praying for Hermione. She told me to say that she isn’t coming back.

Please, please keep praying.

All your suggestions are appreciated. Psychological help is out of the question for Hermione, as is turning towards God or anyone in the Church.

 

[st_felicity]

Alterum:

Thank you everyone for praying for Hermione. She told me to say that she isn’t coming back.

Please, please keep praying.

All your suggestions are appreciated. Psychological help is out of the question for Hermione, as is turning towards God or anyone in the Church.

Well then…this is very sad…she seems to have sabotaged every means of help…and her only hope–God.

So…I guess the question then turns to you, Alterum…

How’s your faith coming along in these trying times? I’m sure it is quite a test having someone you love in such pain and pretty much cutting off all pathways to help…Is there any specific support or prayers we could offer for you in addition to those we offer for Hermione?

 

[Alterum]

Please, please just keep praying. It’s very comforting knowing that there are so many supportive people here. Everything is still very much in limbo. I’ll keep you all updated; things just keep going up and down every hour right now.

 

[pnewton]

Alterum:

Psychological help is out of the question for Hermione, as is turning towards God or anyone in the Church.

With God, nothing is impossible.

 

[st_felicity]

Alterum:

Please, please just keep praying. It’s very comforting knowing that there are so many supportive people here. Everything is still very much in limbo. I’ll keep you all updated; things just keep going up and down every hour right now.

I am praying and I am hopeful, but you are young Alterum…Is this the kind of life you wish to lead? It is not my business, but do you imagine that Hermione will be a stable mother for the children you may have? Do you imagine that you can fix her by remaining steadfast? Can you imagine this sort of turmoil for the next 60+ years? YOU Have control over your own feelings, choices, future…I am sure you love Hermione…but this emotional rollercoaster–though undoubtedly not purposeful in intent–is not the self-giving love that a happy and healthy and God-filled marriage is supposed to look like…If she won’t get counselling–you should–with or without her. Prayers for both of you…

 

[Hildebrand]

Alterum:

Please, please just keep praying. It’s very comforting knowing that there are so many supportive people here. Everything is still very much in limbo. I’ll keep you all updated; things just keep going up and down every hour right now.

Alterum, I would ask that you would print this out for her, if not let her read the passages from Ascent of Mount Carmel.

True happiness is found only in God.

You are being assailed horribly. So much so, ***everything ***seems preferable over your current state of existence.

Leaving the faith now will only increase your sufferings. Believe me, once you leave, the obstacles to get back weigh a ton. The longer you wait, the more and more things pile up and get in your way. Since you will be on your own, Satan will use your own goodness and faults against you in horrible ways.

My advice: go to a holy priest, discuss with him the problems you are facing and receive the sacrament of reconciliation. After the confession, go to the altar and with a pure heart talk to God. Tell Him everything. Offer up all your sufferings for your own salvation and that you find peace in God’s presence.

In the meantime, you can read Chapter VII-XI of the book: Ascent of Mount Carmel, by St. John of the Cross. It was one of John Paul II’s most favorite books. After that, read the other chapters of the book as you see fit.

The link to Chapter VII-XI: http://www.ccel.org/j/john_cross/ascent/book1.html

The index is found here: http://www.ccel.org/j/john_cross/ascent/ascent.html

I wish I could embrace you at this moment. My wounded soul embraces your wounded soul. May God grant you His peace.