Catholicism verses Islam differences and similarities

[jen_fla]

I appreciate that you’re trying to ask questions about the parts that you don’t understand, and giving me the chance to answer. That is true, two-way communication.

cool. although i am getting sleepy and might type a bunch of gobeldy gook.

The important thing is to not take 9:5 alone, as tempting as that might be. A person who is refusing to make peace with Muslims is one who is making war with them. So a person who is at war with the Muslims… the Muslims are at war with him. So he can either stop being at war with the Muslims, or they will be after him. The verse is not talking about any old random pagan living on his own minding his own business–it is talking about a group of people who violated a treaty with the Muslims, and attacked them.

well if islamic law says it’s ok to kill a believing muslim couple for the sin of adultery, (when someone stated earlier that allah forbids any killing except in self defense for he is peaceful and merciful) you can hardly blame us nonbelievers for wondering what the term “war” means. and that passage had a time restraint which once passed, said then to kill those that did not convert and pay a tax. but if this is just for that time period and i don’t understand the context then i will have to take your word for it.

Killing an adulterer is not the same as an honor killing, for the reasons I explained. An honor killing does not go to court, it doesn’t have witnesses to testify to the crime, and it doesn’t penalize both parties involved (usually only the woman is punished, grrr) not to mention it is NOT always the correct punishment prescribed in islam. A public stoning however is an event which would serve as a deterrent to other people. That is a psychological thing.

you tell me that there is a difference between an honor killing and killing under islamic law. ok, so they are different, but that does not change the fact that islamic law condones the killing of a scarlet letter couple. maybe it doesn’t happen often, but regardless muslim law says it is OK. i would rather this type killing were to follow under “honour killing” because then according to your definition we could say that the people that are killing that couple are just crazies that do not understand their own religion. they are just using it for political power. or maybe they see the couple as waging “war” against them.

But in the case of Jesus, when the adulteress was brought to him, the situation is hardly fair. In fact, I don’t think the Pharisees were asking him to uphold the law, but they were asking him to perform what was essentially an honor killing! You see, if they found that woman committing adultery, then they also found a man committing adultery with her. A woman cannot engage in adultery by herself! So why did they not also bring the man?

actually a woman could engage in adultery by herself if she tricked some innocent man into marrying her when she was already married.

So if Jesus (may Allah’s peace be upon him) had allowed them to stone the woman, the law would NOT have been properly applied, because the man would go free. So it’s a really brilliant opportunity to demonstrate mercy.

In Islam, four witnesses are required for a purpose, and that is so people don’t start accusing others of adultery without proof, and slandering each other… people can gossip, you know? So in fact this law is only very seldom applied. But it is a law, applied to both the man and woman involved, and the reason it is a law is to protect the society against illicit intercourse, and to protect children so they know their lineage and are properly cared for.

It is NOT about protecting family honor.

it still is hard for us to comprehend the killing. we do think adultery is a sin, but Christians teach to forgive and not judge. just as i am ignorant to the context you speak of that which surrounds your quran you should not make assumptions as to what we believe in the Holy Bible. i am so sleepy and do apologize if anything i type is insulting to you. i like hearing what you have to say and i am learning much from you.

umerazad, i think it might take me a month to respond to your last post.

zzzzzzz gotta go.

 

[Sam_777]

Thank You, Postmodern, for your informative unbiased replies to our many mistaken ideas. Detailed explantions, corrections with respect to all Is the Catholic way. As is unbiased Search for all truths, and correcting misunderstandings. The Problem is what a vast amount of false hype has been put out about Islam by own agenda driven few. You and Sister Amy have corrected so Much. God Bless.

Hi Sailka,

It seems as a Catholic you like Islam too much, however, I have some questions to you, (yes, no, don’t know) will be sufficient:

• Do you consider Islam to be a revelation from God The Most High.
• Do you consider Muhammed as a prophet from God The Most High.

 

[Sam_777]

Sister Amy;3873279:

inJESUS;3873255:

any problem if you ask your sheikh about it?

I’m embarrassed to ask him, actually. Whenever I ask him questions from here he just kind of looks at me… weird.

maybe because ‘questioning’ your faith and asking questions instead of just going along with the flow is just something that is not done?

(Quran: 05:101).
“*O ye who believe! ask not questions about things which, if made plain to you, may cause you trouble. But if ye ask about things when the Qur-an is being revealed, they will be made plain to you, Allah will forgive those: for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Forbearing. *”

 

[Sam_777]

Sam, if your story is true (and not a lie, as I’m led to believe)

With all the previous posts that addressed that, you still think I’m not telling the truth, hmm, if lying is allowed in Islam per (Quran 05:89) & (Quran 02:225), then its not allowed in Christianity, and since my Soul is Christian, I’m telling the truth.

then it shows that even a so-called Muslim in Saudi Arabia can learn Christianity. So your argument is null and void thanks to your own case study.

Why you have changed the subject, and replied with something else, what my learning of Christianity has to do with that.

I’m asking you again sister Amy, you said:

Doesn’t everyone have the right to hear what Muslims really believe? Doesn’t everyone have the right to make a decision for themselves? Of course they do.

When you come here to Saudi Arabia can you say this the Muslim clerics:
“Doesn’t everyone have the right to hear what Christians really believe? Doesn’t everyone have the right to make a decision for themselves?”

 

[planten]

Please do not blame Islam for anything that is done wrong by the present day Muslims. Islam upholds peaceful living and no killing at all. The christians of today are not any good example of the original religion. We can see and feel their hatred of other faiths. There is no love at all.

Islam allows peceful preaching. But the christians cannot do any peaceful preaching. They have to abuse Islam and the prophet. That is called Kufr. That is why the preaching of Kufr is not allowed in the Muslim countries.

When the silly christians call Allah as a devil or the angel Gabriel as the Satan, that is the height of their enmity and foolishness. So they get the reward and some punishment. Otherwise if they would like to live and speak peacefully then no one will trouble them.

 

[Angelos]

Please do not blame Islam for anything that is done wrong by the present day Muslims. Islam upholds peaceful living and no killing at all. The christians of today are not any good example of the original religion. We can see and feel their hatred of other faiths. There is no love at all.

Islam allows peceful preaching. But the christians cannot do any peaceful preaching. They have to abuse Islam and the prophet. That is called Kufr. That is why the preaching of Kufr is not allowed in the Muslim countries.

When the silly christians call Allah as a devil or the angel Gabriel as the Satan, that is the height of their enmity and foolishness. So they get the reward and some punishment. Otherwise if they would like to live and speak peacefully then no one will trouble them.

Misleading comments revealing Islamic hatred and prejudice!

How can you presume that Islam respects Christians when your scripture regards our basic tenets as KUFR??? I wonder if Surah 9:29 is missing from your personal Koran version

 

[Malgosia]

A good source of comparison of Christianty and Islam is a book by Mark Gabriel (ex-Muslim) titled “Jesus and Muhammad”.

In this book Gabriel compares Jesus side by side with Muhammad, since they were founders of world’s 2 most powerful religions. It is very insiteful and I highly recommend it to anyone.

Peace to all.

 

[Verisimilitude]

A good source of comparison of Christianty and Islam is a book by Mark Gabriel (ex-Muslim) titled “Jesus and Muhammad”.

In this book Gabriel compares Jesus side by side with Muhammad, since they were founders of world’s 2 most powerful religions. It is very insiteful and I highly recommend it to anyone.

Peace to all.

I agree. It is a good book.

 

[inJESUS]

Absolutly Hezbollah has done admirable social work in Lebenon for civilians. Despite their good social work I have to say classifying them as a terrorist organization seems correct, they don’t simply target the Israeli military, but Israeli civilians as well.

that applies in Shia ghettos only…hizbollah territory is a country within a country.

All this violence in islam topics lead nowhere. In Islam there is violence . Whether it is legitimate or not, here is the question, yet the answer depends on Muslims, not you…what you call freedom might be seen as treason by Muslims, and if they rule you, they are the ones who take the decision not you, and there is no authority in Islam…if a “wacko” leader decides to take some radical steps, no one will stop him…he will chant the usual mantra : ennemies of Allah, kuffar, traitors and no one has the authority to stop him ecc…Allah seemed very interested in preserving a book yet not the interpretations nor any authorit,and where there is no authority and then you add to it 144 ayas of war and killing in addition to hundred ahadith of slaughtering, killing, conquering, subduing, stoning, it is no surprise Islam can by no means be called a religion of peace if peace is in the eye of the beholder and innocence is defined according to Islamic understanding of peace.

 

[Verisimilitude]

Even Bernard Lewis will attest to the fact that Jews faired much better under Islamic rule than they did under Chrstendom, and Muslim Scriptures do not have Jews spreaming to have the guilt of shedding Christ’s blood placed upon them and their children.

Did Lewis comment on Umar and his contribution to living with dhimmis for the first 1000 years in Islam?

Muslims have lived with minorities in the past, they do now, and will in the future.

Can you explain what the ‘cause of allah’ is so often spoken about in the Quran?

EDIT: I would assume Muhammad’s final sermon was only adresses to Muslims because he was speaking in a Mosque, kind of like my Priest only adresses Catholics when he’s preaching in a Roman Catholic Church.

Even Catholic priests mention being kind to non-Catholics. I never heard a Catholic Priest say:
…so regard the life and property of every Catholic as a sacred trust.

Besides, the simple fact is Mohammed was not a prophet of God and for Catholics/Christians to bend over backwards to legitimize Mohammed in the name of tolerance today is nutty. Will you also defend Mohammed being a theif and murderer like the Muslim apologists here?

 

[dolphinlove]

Please do not blame Islam for anything that is done wrong by the present day Muslims. Islam upholds peaceful living and no killing at all. The christians of today are not any good example of the original religion. We can see and feel their hatred of other faiths. There is no love at all.

Christians dont hate other faiths, we dont believe in them and its our duty to spread the true gospel of Jesus, the real Jesus that is, not the prophet. So in spreading the real word of Jesus, we also have to prove other religions are incorrect, which we demonstrate on these forums very well. Christians spread the word by love, support, patience and with great understanding. Not through the sword like other religions have been known to do.

Islam allows peceful preaching. But the christians cannot do any peaceful preaching. They have to abuse Islam and the prophet. That is called Kufr. That is why the preaching of Kufr is not allowed in the Muslim countries.

If you call preaching by the sword peaceful… each to their own…
We dont abuse Islam, we point out the inaccuracies in your religion, again, which we do wonderfully. As for Mo on the other hand well, he isnt the nicest character ive come across in recent years. I mean, when you read about the murdering, the false teachings, the marrying of ‘younger’ woman, how could you say something nice about him? And speaking of abusing, dont you think denying Jesus of who he truly is a tad insulting to him? I find it most disrespectful to call Jesus a mere prophet.

When the silly christians call Allah as a devil or the angel Gabriel as the Satan, that is the height of their enmity and foolishness. So they get the reward and some punishment. Otherwise if they would like to live and speak peacefully then no one will trouble them.

Oh, the irony. We insult Islam, what are you doing in the first part of this paragraph, insulting Christians!!! Planten, you should be a stand up comic.
Anyway, as for the rest of your paragraph, as i said, you call Jesus a prophet… INSULTING!!! We say the ‘angel’ that Mo saw was not an angel of God. No angel of God would hurt one of us first and foremost, secondly, why would God send his only son then send another ‘prophet’ later on. None of this makes sense. So that is why we dont believe the angel mo saw was an actual angel of God. Simple.
FTR, us Christians arent silly, we truly know God, do you?

 

[Sailka]

R-Not, Some key comments on your writings in #195 to PostModern:
You have the Motivation of Why terrorists sometimes kill reversed from reality. Big Majority of the Terortrist attacks were By relatives of some who were killed or tortured or life ruined BY “Us”. It is Not ‘killing infidels’. It is trying to protest publically, newsworthily politically Isreal, USA and Britain “In your Face”, and Occupying, controlling other countries, cultures, peoples in their country. like Iraq, Palestinan lands and property, and Afghanistan, even threatening Iran falselly.
The Very occasional killings are Not remotelly because of Religion, but Does use the religious justification of defending ones Faith and Home against deadly foreign forces and cultures.

                                                                                                                                                                                          A very key point is that in the Lebanese Problem few  years ago:  
                                                                                           The specific cause, begining  was Isreali gunboats  shelling  a Palestinian vivilian Beach, killing several civilians, as retaliation for One Terrorist bombing of an occupied, occupier Isreali site.      Was Inexcusable insane  attack by Isreal, on Civilians/Nonterrorists.       Hezbollah typically  responded by a few rockets  and bombings  into Isreal    
                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                          It is essential to know How,Why the  Big problem began:   Isreali  Gunboat(s)  shelling a  Civilian Palesdtinian Beach, in Daytime.  There   was   firing  from the beach, and Zero  excuse to  fire  on Unarmed civilians on a Beach.    Some of  their Relitces may  Well have Become Terrorists, and not against infidels. 
                                                                                           Which resilted in  Major full war Isreali Air and ground attacks  on All of  Gaza and Lebanon, Focusing  on the  only Gaza University  and Generator, and Lebanon's  Civilian Airport, all bridges Needed  by refugees  tryimng to  flee, etc.                     

                                                                                           One does Not  destroy the entire Infrastucture of  poor neighbor, in retaliating  for the   Response few rockets of  the Hezbollah, Which is  national guard of the very oppressed   native Palestinian population.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                          The Hezbollah and Isreali Casualties of Lebanon Speak for themselves:      Hezbollah  killed 80-90%  Isreali Armed forces invading  Lebanon and Gaza, vs Isreali civilians.                          
                                                                                                                                                                                          The Casualties caused  by Overwhelming Isreali Miltary Power were the Reverse:  80-90 %  Innocent Civilians, vs Hezbollah or any  legitimate targets in Isrerali  Attacks on Univolved   Neighbor Nations.

 

[Sister_Amy]

cool. although i am getting sleepy and might type a bunch of gobeldy gook.

I’m going to try to reply to this as best I can.

well if islamic law says it’s ok to kill a believing muslim couple for the sin of adultery, (when someone stated earlier that allah forbids any killing except in self defense for he is peaceful and merciful) you can hardly blame us nonbelievers for wondering what the term “war” means. and that passage had a time restraint which once passed, said then to kill those that did not convert and pay a tax. but if this is just for that time period and i don’t understand the context then i will have to take your word for it.

Ok, let me restate this. Islamic law does not say it is “OK” to kill people for their sins. It’s not “OK” to just kill people. What we are talking about is a crime, and then a legal punishment for it. Do you say that according to your religion, if a woman is raped she should not try to have the rapist punished? Of course not! (At least, I hope not!) It is a crime–not just a sin but an actual crime–and the person (rapist) needs to be punished. Here in the USA we have legal punishments–people go to court and then to jail, sometimes they are given the death penalty. You said “killing is OK” which isn’t really accurate–it is merely a death penalty. A particular punishment for a particular crime.

you tell me that there is a difference between an honor killing and killing under islamic law. ok, so they are different, but that does not change the fact that islamic law condones the killing of a scarlet letter couple. maybe it doesn’t happen often, but regardless muslim law says it is OK. i would rather this type killing were to follow under “honour killing” because then according to your definition we could say that the people that are killing that couple are just crazies that do not understand their own religion. they are just using it for political power. or maybe they see the couple as waging “war” against them.

Islamic law does not “condone” their killing, it actually demands that they be made an example. remember that four witnesses are required to testify that they actually saw the act occur.

actually a woman could engage in adultery by herself if she tricked some innocent man into marrying her when she was already married.

The conditions for a marriage to be valid would prevent this situation from ever occurring. A marriage requires, as a condition, the woman’s wali, who would have known about the first marriage and the second. Without it the marriage is invalid. The marriage also must be made public. So the situation could not really happen.

it still is hard for us to comprehend the killing. we do think adultery is a sin, but Christians teach to forgive and not judge. just as i am ignorant to the context you speak of that which surrounds your quran you should not make assumptions as to what we believe in the Holy Bible. i am so sleepy and do apologize if anything i type is insulting to you. i like hearing what you have to say and i am learning much from you.

Actually Muslims teach to forgive as well–and forgiveness is better. Adulterers are not punished because they hurt their spouses–but in fact it is not their spouses who have a say at all in the punishment. The sin of adultery is very dangerous to the whole society. Just like if you had a serial killer, how would you deal with him? Just forgive? Not judge? This is why we have a law, to deal with these serious issues. Islam is a complete way of life, with a complete legal system, so it protects not just individuals at a spiritual level, but the entire society.

Thanks for replying, I hope I have cleared things up a little more for you.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Sam, you are proof against your own argument. My case in point.

 

[Sister_Amy]

When adultery becomes commonplace, it is everyone’s problem. I’m kind of disturbed to hear how easily you can talk about people you know committing adultery regularly!!

We live in a society where almost anything goes–where people think that “consenting adults” should be able to do whatever they want. But adultery does not just harm the people in the marriage, it damages the entire institution of marriage and fosters a variety of family problems. Just because people want to fool around when they aren’t married? It is a serious thing, there is a reason it’s among the 10 Commandments–it is THAT serious.

 

[Sailka]

When adultery becomes commonplace, it is everyone’s problem. I’m kind of disturbed to hear how easily you can talk about people you know committing adultery regularly!!

We live in a society where almost anything goes–where people think that “consenting adults” should be able to do whatever they want. But adultery does not just harm the people in the marriage, it damages the entire institution of marriage and fosters a variety of family problems. Just because people want to fool around when they aren’t married? It is a serious thing, there is a reason it’s among the 10 Commandments–it is THAT serious.

                                                                                           :clapping: :amen:                    :blessyou:             

                                                                                                                                                                                          Beautiful Very "Catholic" reply by a very Beautifully spoken very Muslim Lady.           Again, how Beautiful and basically similar our   attitudes are >   Do God's will, not  mine.                             Tony

                                                                                           Because God's Will is Best for You, Me  and Society. Ideally so.  :getholy:

 

[Verisimilitude]

It is a serious thing, there is a reason it’s among the 10 Commandments–it is THAT serious.

It is still not a reason to have moral minders peaking in peoples windows and picking up stones to kill the offenders with. Free will and personal liberty comes with personal responsibility and the judgement is not laid upon society but remains with God.

Religion is good for setting the example but not so good at executing judgements.

 

[Booklover]

Excellent response! :clapping:

Vickie

 

[Postmodern]

Who is Bernard Lewis so that we can applaud him or praise his assertions? When did Lewis become a religious authority that can declare dogmas for the Christian Church??? Who made him the pope of secular history???

Bernard Lewis is often cited as the foremost scholar on the Middle East in the West. Besides his Scholarly prominence he is also a major source of inspiration for neo-conservative thought. Edwards Said cited him as a notable “Orientalist”.

His significance is that he is on “your side” of this debate, yet even he notes this point.

Bernard Lewis only assumed that Muslims were treated better by Muslims because he either did not read the Islamic scripture or deliberately ignored the truth as a result of his hatred and prejudice towards Christianity. What’s the point of bringing up the mistaken presumptions of an atheistic writer, who knew neither Christianity nor Islam? I must remind you that being of Western origin does not make a man an expert on Christianity.

He made the comment about Jews, and I’m quite sure he has read Muslim scripture.

Here, this is Lewis

Of course they can!

However, they attack and try to conquer the whole world to make themselves the only religious MAJORITY. Muslims abhor the idea of being a minority in non-Muslim countries, which is the major problem threatening the future of Christians.

I know plenty of Muslims who don’t find the idea of being religious minorities intolerable.

I don’t know why you find stereotypical blanket statements appropriate

What does this prove? He addressed Muslims and today’s every Muslim regards that sermon as guidance.

That other fellow claimed that Muhammad’s exclusive address to other Muslims was “important”, I was responding that of course he only addressed it to Muslims, he was speaking in a Mosque.

 

[Postmodern]

Did Lewis comment on Umar and his contribution to living with dhimmis for the first 1000 years in Islam?

I’m sure he has

Can you explain what the ‘cause of allah’ is so often spoken about in the Quran?

what’s the context?

Even Catholic priests mention being kind to non-Catholics. I never heard a Catholic Priest say:
…so regard the life and property of every Catholic as a sacred trust.

ok?

Besides, the simple fact is Mohammed was not a prophet of God and for Catholics/Christians to bend over backwards to legitimize Mohammed in the name of tolerance today is nutty. Will you also defend Mohammed being a theif and murderer like the Muslim apologists here?

I haven’t even talked about Muhammad. I have never said anything positive or negative about him.

I’d suggust you read up on “Projection”.