Catholicism - What is it that 'really' bugs you?

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happilycatholic said:
It’s weird. We first pick something that makes us different, unique that separates us from everyone else. We then call that correct. Once that’s established we then proceed to defend oursleves by saying that we are the same as everyone else and should be treated so. However, that’s now impossible because we’ve alienated everyone by telling them they’re wrong because they are different from us. We are all alone in the end. It’s what we wanted, right?

It’s a self-created conundrum. :o
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I believe there is an acronym for that:

S-self
I-inflicted
N-nonsense
 
Priestly celibacy, because it’s not even a theological issue, it’s about church discipline.
 
Steadfast said:
There is even a word for it:

Odium Theologicum
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Wow, that was harsh. I think when it comes to “hate”, that is something within one’s self. If a person hates me, more than likely it’s something he/she perceives I’ve done to him/her.

So hate is relative to the person doing the hating.

I hated my ex-inlaws for a long time but it wasn’t the things they did to me that were eating at me. I’d gotten over that relatively quickly. It was my own reaction to what they’d done that was eating at me and I couldn’t go back and redo that so hate was a way to continually “get back at them” and react to a situation that no longer exsisted.

Okay, that was way too much but I’m hitting the post button anyway cause it explains my point. Sorry about the drama.
 
Berkeley called it “the intemperate zeal of divines”.

I am just referring to the irrational antipathy persons of different confession will show toward one another. In many cases it is out of all proportion to any substantial disagreement.

For the record, I am against it which is one reason why I find your posts here so refreshing.
 
grampben said:
Priestly celibacy, because it’s not even a theological issue, it’s about church discipline.
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Okay, see this is the kind of thing that I wonder about. Why in the world does that particular thing bug you?

I’m not being smug, this is the very thing about catholicism I’m trying to get at. Stuff that doesn’t make a difference in one’s spiritual life one way or another, especially if you are not and are not thinking of becoming catholic.

So you have the perfect opportunity to tell us why it bothers some folks (cause you can’t be the only one) that a perfect stranger takes a vow that he will not indulge in intimacy as long as he is a priest.

Ah, could it be that you want to be a priest but cannot be celibate? Probably not, but most of the time I think that’s “what’s really bugging” some folks. 😃 Or is it that “being married to the Church” thing?

This is a good one and I am not responding to you personally, but to the point you make. You probably have no intention of being a priest or even becoming catholic, but you raise a good point.

Thanks!

HC
 
happilycatholic said:
Okay, see this is the kind of thing that I wonder about. Why in the world does that particular thing bug you?

I’m not being smug, this is the very thing about catholicism I’m trying to get at. Stuff that doesn’t make a difference in one’s spiritual life one way or another, especially if you are not and are not thinking of becoming catholic.

So you have the perfect opportunity to tell us why it bothers some folks (cause you can’t be the only one) that a perfect stranger takes a vow that he will not indulge in intimacy as long as he is a priest.

Ah, could it be that you want to be a priest but cannot be celibate? Probably not, but most of the time I think that’s “what’s really bugging” some folks. 😃 Or is it that “being married to the Church” thing?

This is a good one and I am not responding to you personally, but to the point you make. You probably have no intention of being a priest or even becoming catholic, but you raise a good point.

Thanks!

HC
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I think an arguement against celibacy (let’s just take it from a protestant point of view) is that it might help to fight off the sex scandals. But then again, non-celibacy aint helpin’ a whole lot with some protestant ministers neither!
 
Steadfast said:
Berkeley called it “the intemperate zeal of divines”.

I am just referring to the irrational antipathy persons of different confession will show toward one another. In many cases it is out of all proportion to any substantial disagreement.

For the record, I am against it which is one reason why I find your posts here so refreshing.
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You were absolutely right and people do get very hateful, especially here where anonymity is enjoyed. But there’s no room for that in Christianity, no matter your convictions.

I’m the only catholic in my family so I’m used to being different. I’m also used to being loved because I am me, and especially because I think on my own two feet. I have great parents.

I hope the great discussion here continues. We can all learn a lot if we intend to learn and not argue.
 
reteeks21 said:
I think an arguement against celibacy (let’s just take it from a protestant point of view) is that it might help to fight off the sex scandals. But then again, non-celibacy aint helpin’ a whole lot with some protestant ministers neither!
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I see what you’re saying. The common theory is if they were “active” they wouldn’t commit crimes. Well, maybe. Of course odds say that would cure some of it, but considering it’s a human weakness (the criminal aspect as well as the “natural” aspect), it exsists in all walks.

Personally, as a catholic I think we should offer better therapy to our priests dealing with this aspect of their vows, before and during their priesthood. Maybe we should do more to catch these tendancies beforehand. Maybe we’re doing all we can and it’s just not enough. 🤷

HC
 
happilycatholic said:
I see what you’re saying. The common theory is if they were “active” they wouldn’t commit crimes. Well, maybe. Of course odds say that would cure some of it, but considering it’s a human weakness (the criminal aspect as well as the “natural” aspect), it exsists in all walks.

Personally, as a catholic I think we should offer better therapy to our priests dealing with this aspect of their vows, before and during their priesthood. Maybe we should do more to catch these tendancies beforehand. Maybe we’re doing all we can and it’s just not enough. 🤷

HC
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Are priest who have vows of celebacy discouraged from listening to Barry White?
 
happilycatholic said:
Okay, see this is the kind of thing that I wonder about. Why in the world does that particular thing bug you?

I’m not being smug, this is the very thing about catholicism I’m trying to get at. Stuff that doesn’t make a difference in one’s spiritual life one way or another, especially if you are not and are not thinking of becoming catholic.

So you have the perfect opportunity to tell us why it bothers some folks (cause you can’t be the only one) that a perfect stranger takes a vow that he will not indulge in intimacy as long as he is a priest.

Ah, could it be that you want to be a priest but cannot be celibate? Probably not, but most of the time I think that’s “what’s really bugging” some folks. 😃 Or is it that “being married to the Church” thing?

This is a good one and I am not responding to you personally, but to the point you make. You probably have no intention of being a priest or even becoming catholic, but you raise a good point.

Thanks!

HC
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In honesty, I don’t know! Maybe it’s the having to obey discipline even if it’s not theological.
Well, I suppose it’s a choice that the Priest makes. I think it’s the faithful catholic men with families who would make great priests, or maybe even have thoughts about the Priesthood, that can’t because of a disciplinary rule.

I perhaps put forward my position wrong, I am not against vows of celibacy as such, but I feel they should not be compulsory for the Priesthood.

Then again, as a protestant I think that because before God all of the faithful are equal, and so if priests and nuns etc are ‘married to the church’ it puts them in a higher position than the lay catholics.
 
happilycatholic said:
Good Day! Peace Be With You and Yours!

Okay, I know all the cookie-cutter answers to this question:
  1. Primacy of the Pope
  2. Adoration of Mary
  3. Transubstatiation
  4. Veneration of Saints
  5. Confession to a priest
etc. etc.
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Number 2 should be Veneration of Mary, not Adoration.
As it stands, your number 2 is a false statement.

And why would anyone have a problem with veneration of Saints or Mary?

Number 5…Confession to a priest.
Hmm…sounds like this is what Jesus asked us to do.

Number 3…Transubstantiation…
See my quote below for that one.
 
happilycatholic said:
This is one of those things I too have a hard time with. I absolutely understand why, it being a sacrament and all, but I do struggle with it. I just approach it like a parent doing what is best for a child. I may not understand, but I trust. 🤷

Are you not comfortable with the aspect of putting a soul in mortal danger if that soul is not saved and receives the Body and Blood of Christ? (genuine, not sarcastic) Even Protestant churches close communion to all who are not saved. Could this be exponential to that? I’m interested in hearing your thoughts on this aspect.

Good one! This is one I don’t hear too often and it is akin to the sacrament of the sick as well. I sure wish I could have had that for my grandmother who was not catholic, but a saint just the same! 🙂

HC
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Regarding point Number 3… in the opening post: Transubstatiation

If Transubstantiation “Bugs” you, then why is the issue of closed Communion even an issue with you???
As Catholics, we have the real Presence of the Body and Blood of Christ in the Eucharist.
We cannot just give it to someone who does not recognize this—

For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily eateth and drinketh judgment to himself, not discerning the body of the Lord.
1 Corinthians Chapter 11
Verse 29

But I’m sure these kinds of things have been pointed out on this site over and over and over and over, I don’t understand where the hangup is.
It seems pretty straight-forward to me.

Of course you have the possibility of being saved if you believe in Christ as your Saviour, I have that possibility as well. But I also have Him physically present in me when I take Communion, not just Spiritually.
 
joecap said:
Number 2 should be Veneration of Mary, not Adoration.
As it stands, your number 2 is a false statement.

And why would anyone have a problem with veneration of Saints or Mary?

Number 5…Confession to a priest.
Hmm…sounds like this is what Jesus asked us to do.

Number 3…Transubstantiation…
See my quote below for that one.
Click to expand...
This thread is not about catholic apologetics. If everyone thought confession to a priest was right then why don’t all protestants do it?
 
joecap said:
Number 2 should be Veneration of Mary, not Adoration.
As it stands, your number 2 is a false statement.

And why would anyone have a problem with veneration of Saints or Mary?

Number 5…Confession to a priest.
Hmm…sounds like this is what Jesus asked us to do.

Number 3…Transubstantiation…
See my quote below for that one.
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False? See: In the strict sense, an act of religion offered to God in acknowledgment of His supreme perfection and dominion, and of the creature’s dependence upon Him; in a looser sense, the reverence shown to any person or object possessing, inherently or by association, a sacred character or a high degree of moral excellence.

Uncomfortable for some, but not false. An issue of semantics really.

Methinks you too serious! 🙂 I hope you adore your mom, I do mine!

HC
 
joecap said:
Regarding point Number 3… in the opening post: Transubstatiation

If Transubstantiation “Bugs” you, then why is the issue of closed Communion even an issue with you???
As Catholics, we have the real Presence of the Body and Blood of Christ in the Eucharist.
We cannot just give it to someone who does not recognize this—

For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily eateth and drinketh judgment to himself, not discerning the body of the Lord.
1 Corinthians Chapter 11
Verse 29

But I’m sure these kinds of things have been pointed out on this site over and over and over and over, I don’t understand where the hangup is.
It seems pretty straight-forward to me.

Of course you have the possibility of being saved if you believe in Christ as your Saviour, I have that possibility as well. But I also have Him physically present in me when I take Communion, not just Spiritually.
Click to expand...
Dude, I’m catholic.

Peace Be With You!

HC
 
joecap said:
Regarding point Number 3… in the opening post: Transubstatiation

If Transubstantiation “Bugs” you, then why is the issue of closed Communion even an issue with you???
As Catholics, we have the real Presence of the Body and Blood of Christ in the Eucharist.
We cannot just give it to someone who does not recognize this—

For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily eateth and drinketh judgment to himself, not discerning the body of the Lord.
1 Corinthians Chapter 11
Verse 29

But I’m sure these kinds of things have been pointed out on this site over and over and over and over, I don’t understand where the hangup is.
It seems pretty straight-forward to me.

Of course you have the possibility of being saved if you believe in Christ as your Saviour, I have that possibility as well. But I also have Him physically present in me when I take Communion, not just Spiritually.
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So, in essence, we as catholics know where Christ’s presence is and where it is not at all times? And in that knowledge we are limiting Christ’s presence to our catholic churches?

I don’t believe I was catechized that way, nope.

Therein lies most of the issues between Protestants and catholics. There is a misconception that the catholic faith is exclusionary when it is by nature of being Christ’s Church, inclusionary.

Wouldn’t you say?

HC
 
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